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The Lars Eller Thread - Great or Greatest Dane Edition

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04-29-2013, 07:32 PM
  #651
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Almost all coaches play matchup hockey.

You can call Eller's line by whatever number you choose. 1, 2 or 3. Opposing team's coaches do not care what number a line is called.

Therrien is still not sold on Chuckie for whatever reason. He feels that the team will do better giving more minutes to Pacioretty and Bourque. So DD gets more minutes not because of DD, but because of his linemates.

So do you move DD to the line with Chuckie and Gally to cut his ice time and give Eller more offensive minutes? If you do that, the other team's coach will look at that line (DD, Gally, Chuckie) as an exploitable defensive line and Eller will rarely see the other team's 2nd line for defensive purposes. The Habs will suffer for giving a smallish line responsibility for shutting down the 2nd line of other teams.

We are a smallish team. Because of that, we have to shield certain players. Sucks, but it is our roster right now.

Therrien seems to think that Eller is fine being a PK specialist and is slowly easing him into more PP time. IF, and only IF he starts lighting it up on the PP, then I am sure he will reward Eller with more PP time.

Until then, I am certain that Therrien will think that spreading ice time and offensive/defensive responsibilities to more players on this team leads to a more productive team.

As I am prone to gripe about Therriens use of Prust, it appears that the man knows a little bit about coaching as we finished tops in the NE.
I wasn't talking about this season, it's not the time to start experimenting.
You can say the same for other teams too. Unless they have a real solid third line team, then I'm not sure they'd want to let an average 3rd line deal with Eller-MaxPac-Gallagher (as an example).
Let's not pretend that a 3rd line with DD would just be horrible and would allow a goal every time they're on the ice.
DD isn't the best defensive forward, but he's not this horrible player as most make him out to be either.

There's also the possibility of moving him to the wing, which to me is unavoidable.
I'm just sick of hearing Eller used as a shutdown specialist. Plekanec is always used to shutdown opponents but nobody says he's on a shutdown line.
It should be the same for Eller.

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Old
04-29-2013, 07:46 PM
  #652
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How Desharnais performs in the playoffs will play a part in determining his future (either by raising his literal value or his value to the team).

Eller too needs to make a statement in the playoffs.

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04-29-2013, 08:04 PM
  #653
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I hope Desharnais' playing time goes down in the playoffs in favour of Eller. Small guys usually get pushed around in the playoffs

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04-29-2013, 08:25 PM
  #654
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I hope Desharnais' playing time goes down in the playoffs in favour of Eller. Small guys usually get pushed around in the playoffs
If DD's icetime goes down, that would mean that he doesn't play well, which, in turn, affect the fate of the team.

...
So you really want the team to fail? Not that I'm surprised.

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04-29-2013, 08:42 PM
  #655
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I wasn't talking about this season, it's not the time to start experimenting.
You can say the same for other teams too. Unless they have a real solid third line team, then I'm not sure they'd want to let an average 3rd line deal with Eller-MaxPac-Gallagher (as an example).
Let's not pretend that a 3rd line with DD would just be horrible and would allow a goal every time they're on the ice.
DD isn't the best defensive forward, but he's not this horrible player as most make him out to be either.

There's also the possibility of moving him to the wing, which to me is unavoidable.
I'm just sick of hearing Eller used as a shutdown specialist. Plekanec is always used to shutdown opponents but nobody says he's on a shutdown line.
It should be the same for Eller.
OK. I got you now.

Next season, I am all for some changes to the forwards so we are more flexible and have no need to "protect" a player or a line.

This season, you see Eller excelling at defense (a specialist so to speak because he is on the PK as well) and having the skills to shut down 2nd line scorers on other teams while still racking up points as a negative.

I see that as a positive.

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04-29-2013, 08:43 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If DD's icetime goes down, that would mean that he doesn't play well, which, in turn, affect the fate of the team.

...
So you really want the team to fail? Not that I'm surprised.
We can see it with the glass half full also. It could also mean that Eller line is playing so well that Desharnais icetime is low

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04-29-2013, 08:47 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
We can see it with the glass half full also. It could also mean that Eller line is playing so well that Desharnais icetime is low
Very few coaches cut ice time of a player on the team if they are doing their job............just because another player is having an excellent game.

What you said makes no sense.......with all due respect.

Edit.........Regardless of player's name on the back of the sweater, I want to see all of the Habs suited up each night performing well.

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04-29-2013, 08:52 PM
  #658
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We can see it with the glass half full also. It could also mean that Eller line is playing so well that Desharnais icetime is low
If Eller does SO well, then it would also impact on Plekanec and Halpern/White IT. Not only DD. This is not what the poster said in its original message.

Besides, if C#1, C#2 and C#3 plays well (at different degrees), they won't cannibalize their IT.
At best, C#4 will play a bit less.

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04-29-2013, 09:13 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If Eller does SO well, then it would also impact on Plekanec and Halpern/White IT. Not only DD. This is not what the poster said in its original message.

Besides, if C#1, C#2 and C#3 plays well (at different degrees), they won't cannibalize their IT.
At best, C#4 will play a bit less.
Well i'm not saying your wrong but DD would be the only one impacted since the only time he could lose is the PP time since he doesn't play on the PK and also 5 on 5 they play almost the same number of time (almost)

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04-29-2013, 09:28 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
OK. I got you now.

Next season, I am all for some changes to the forwards so we are more flexible and have no need to "protect" a player or a line.

This season, you see Eller excelling at defense (a specialist so to speak because he is on the PK as well) and having the skills to shut down 2nd line scorers on other teams while still racking up points as a negative.

I see that as a positive.
No no I don't see it as a negative, Eller finished the year 3pts short of Plekanec, and ahead of DD. His ice time went up a lot since the beginning of the year, and it wasn't a rare occurrence for him to get more ice time than DD. So I just don't think we should be talking about keeping this guy as a shutdown center, and that starting next year, he should no longer be used as a 3rd liner. He's moved up ahead of DD imo, so it would be stupid to keep him on the 3rd line with weaker wingers and little PP time.
Also, that using DD on a third line wouldn't be this big mistake some seem to believe it'll be.

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04-29-2013, 09:39 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No no I don't see it as a negative, Eller finished the year 3pts short of Plekanec, and ahead of DD. His ice time went up a lot since the beginning of the year, and it wasn't a rare occurrence for him to get more ice time than DD. So I just don't think we should be talking about keeping this guy as a shutdown center, and that starting next year, he should no longer be used as a 3rd liner. He's moved up ahead of DD imo, so it would be stupid to keep him on the 3rd line with weaker wingers and little PP time.
Also, that using DD on a third line wouldn't be this big mistake some seem to believe it'll be.
Agree with everything that you said in this post with the exception of DD as 3rd line Center. Unless Clowe plays on his 3rd line.

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04-29-2013, 09:42 PM
  #662
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2 years ago, Eller was a beast in the playoffs, particularly the last 2 games when he had a dislocated shoulder.

This guy is a warrior. Now he has already stepped up his game big time this season so I don't know if he still has another gear, but I'm sure he's gonna be one of our best player.

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04-30-2013, 01:29 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
2 years ago, Eller was a beast in the playoffs, particularly the last 2 games when he had a dislocated shoulder.

This guy is a warrior. Now he has already stepped up his game big time this season so I don't know if he still has another gear, but I'm sure he's gonna be one of our best player.
He probably got hurt from not having his frame filled out. Now that he has some muscle, I think he'll have more durability and will be able to play a man's game. Eller in the playoffs will be a treat to watch.

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04-30-2013, 02:21 AM
  #664
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Eller, Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Tinordi are the players who are going to make the difference.

If they collapse in PO, then we are doomed.
If they raise their play to the next level, then all veterans will raise their level too.
The only way we can advance in PO is for them to play like top players.

Given their character, I feel pretty good.
  • Tinordi has always been a leader everywhere he went, not expecting him to play less good;
  • Gallagher is Gallagher;
  • Galchenyuk was good then dropped and emerged, I feel he is going to be better in second round;
  • Eller is ready, it is his time to shine, I still remember Chara beating him down with three or four cross-checks and him getting back up: he will not give up.

We can say something about these guys, they are not going to give up.
And the team will gel together.

Gionta, Moen, Desharnais, Ryder, Bourque and Markov should all rise to the opportunity.

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04-30-2013, 02:24 AM
  #665
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By the way guys. Sens are a real hockey team but they are not goons.

We can deal with tough hockey and hits...

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04-30-2013, 06:49 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
Well i'm not saying your wrong but DD would be the only one impacted since the only time he could lose is the PP time since he doesn't play on the PK and also 5 on 5 they play almost the same number of time (almost)
Plekanec plays on the PP as well.

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04-30-2013, 10:25 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Plekanec plays on the PP as well.
Plekanec has been significantly more effective than Desharnais on the power play.

To put into context, the forwards required the following PP minutes per PPP:

Eller - 6
Ryder - 8
Plekanec - 9
Pacioretty -11
Gionta - 20
Desharnais - 20

Galchenyuk didn't even get enough time for a small sample size like Eller.

But yeah, it's pretty obvious that the kid line needs more chances, and looking at those numbers, it should be obvious which two forwards should be the first to lose PP time.

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04-30-2013, 10:59 AM
  #668
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Very few coaches cut ice time of a player on the team if they are doing their job............just because another player is having an excellent game.

What you said makes no sense.......with all due respect.
Agreed.

13 points in 14 games in the month of April got Eller an ~1 min/game average icetime reduction from previous month.
12 points in 14 games in the month o April got Galchenyuk a ~2 min/game average icetime reduction from previous month.

Makes little sense.

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04-30-2013, 11:00 AM
  #669
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By the way guys. Sens are a real hockey team but they are not goons.

We can deal with tough hockey and hits...
That makes them more dangerous than the Leafs and their useless goons.

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04-30-2013, 01:24 PM
  #670
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Agreed.

13 points in 14 games in the month of April got Eller an ~1 min/game average icetime reduction from previous month.
12 points in 14 games in the month o April got Galchenyuk a ~2 min/game average icetime reduction from previous month.

Makes little sense.
No argument from me. Therrien is a good tactician but some of his personnel decisions make me wonder.

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04-30-2013, 01:45 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
By the way guys. Sens are a real hockey team but they are not goons.

We can deal with tough hockey and hits...
Good point.

A big reason the Habs had it easy on the last game of the season against the Leafs was that the Leafs played it safe and put their truculance aside. Only when there was no time left Dion and Orr tried to start something but it was too late.

We also had a problem against the Flyers for the same reasons.

That said, the Sens played one time like this against us this season on the first Sens-Habs game and they won the match-up. So they can goon it up when they want to. Let's also go back to the playoffs of last year against the Rangers.

But I think Tinordi will help us in the grit department.

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04-30-2013, 01:46 PM
  #672
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That makes them more dangerous than the Leafs and their useless goons.
You have more chance to beat the Habs if you goon it up. You should know that by now.

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04-30-2013, 01:51 PM
  #673
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I hope Desharnais' playing time goes down in the playoffs in favour of Eller. Small guys usually get pushed around in the playoffs
Yeah, Brière is known for underperforming in the playoffs because he's pushed around.

Giroux, Marchand, Parise, St.Louis, Kane, Cammalleri, Gionta are other great recent examples.

Playoffs aren't about size.

That being said, Eller has played like a leader lastly. I expect great playoffs from him.

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04-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #674
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You have more chance to beat the Habs if you goon it up. You should know that by now.
No you don't. That's ridiculous. If it was really that simple then teams would constantly do it, and constantly win. Not the case.

The inability of certain posters to properly assess this team is just sad..
Other teams give us more respect than plenty of our own fans.

Just push the small guys around...they'll hide in a corner, turtle, let you win, and wait for it all to end. That's the opinion of some fans.

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04-30-2013, 04:56 PM
  #675
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Plekanec has been significantly more effective than Desharnais on the power play.

To put into context, the forwards required the following PP minutes per PPP:

Eller - 6
Ryder - 8
Plekanec - 9
Pacioretty -11
Gionta - 20
Desharnais - 20

Galchenyuk didn't even get enough time for a small sample size like Eller.

But yeah, it's pretty obvious that the kid line needs more chances, and looking at those numbers, it should be obvious which two forwards should be the first to lose PP time.

I understand your point... but it doesn't address my question at all.

Say Lars Eller outperforms everyone, to the point where he HAS to be given more minutes.

He'll get ES minutes from TP and DD (from RW, to a lesser extent), and PP minutes from TP and DD, and PK minutes from... well, he certainly WON'T take DD PK minutes, right?

Hence my theory that if Eller plays really well, he'll take Plekanec's minutes on the PP -- especially with Tomas Plekanec's play taking a drop at the 40-game point. Unless it's actually a situation of DD playing really bad.

I mean, if what works is to take ONLY DD's icetime, then fine. The thing is, you'll STILL have a player playing too much minutes for my tastes (Plekanec).

This said, I concur that there should already have been an icetime adjustment, in order to give a little more minutes to the Kid line and and a little less minutes to the three other lines combined.

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