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Who should we draft?

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Old
04-30-2013, 11:54 AM
  #826
thomast
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Here's some clips off all shifts on a FEL game. It's not highlight reel but every single shift in a game. Player isolation cam? He's the one with golden helmet #16. Remember that he is just 17 playing against men in one of the best leagues in the world.

period 1:



Period 2:



period 3:

These clips are better than any scouting reports. If you want to see Barkov outside of Highlight reels watch them.

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04-30-2013, 11:59 AM
  #827
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Nicushkin can say it's his dream to play in the NHL ad nauseum however, I don't think that includes the Nashville Predators. Some how I'm don't think he could point out Tennessee on a Map.

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04-30-2013, 12:04 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by vandyfan84 View Post
Nicushkin can say it's his dream to play in the NHL ad nauseum however, I don't think that includes the Nashville Predators. Some how I'm don't think he could point out Tennessee on a Map.
That's a rather stiff expectation, could you point out Chelyabinsk? Would you expect the average 18 year old Tennessean to?

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04-30-2013, 12:24 PM
  #829
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Because a rookie has never struggled before right? Not to mention that Granlund is smaller and likely going to take more time to adapt to the game because of it.

It's not really a good comparison between the two players. Not to mention Granlund was older than barkov when he put up similar numbers. There really isn't a comparable player to barkov
In recent or even longer FEL history.
Ok better question and this comes from someone doesn't watch SM-liiga. Should we even look at Barkov's stats? Is this Finnish league strong right now? Is he putting up those stats because the league isn't as good? I'm not singling out SM-liiga as you can say this about any league. Just asking if we should even use his stats at all.

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04-30-2013, 12:27 PM
  #830
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Who should we draft? Barkov

Who will we draft? Monahan

He is just too much of a Trotz player.

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04-30-2013, 12:32 PM
  #831
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http://www.sm-liiga.fi/videot.html?f...26_Barkov2.mp4
First 13 goals of the season

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04-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #832
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Who should we draft? Barkov

Who will we draft? Monahan

He is just too much of a Trotz player.
Barkov is just as good defensively as Monahan, but better in every other way.

It won't happen.

It will be Barkov or Lindholm.

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04-30-2013, 12:40 PM
  #833
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Lots of right place right time goals. Which is a good quality. He wouldn't be getting those chances in Nashville though as we likely have already lost the puck.

I'd be more persuaded if I saw more dynamic play.

So question for people who have watched him play. Is he more reliant on other players setting him up with good chances or is he a force on the ice that creates chances for himself?

Granted that is just a snapshot. But he looks like Jason Arnott.


Last edited by Jarnberg: 04-30-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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Old
04-30-2013, 12:40 PM
  #834
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Ok better question and this comes from someone doesn't watch SM-liiga. Should we even look at Barkov's stats? Is this Finnish league strong right now? Is he putting up those stats because the league isn't as good? I'm not singling out SM-liiga as you can say this about any league. Just asking if we should even use his stats at all.
First of all Barkov broke up every possible record for draft eligible player in FEL and most of the season it was against NHL-lockout players. We actual saw him playing against players like Mikko Koivu, Erik Karlsson, Rich Peverley, Jussi Jokinen and many more NHL-players. Barkov actually played with Jannik Hanssen and was better than him. Hanssen is considered as strong defensive player but Barkov was as good if not better. I saw him matched against Mikko Koivu who is #1 C in the NHL and he outplayed him in every way(Craig Button talks about it). Saw him making Jussi Jokinen as nonfactor and putting up 3 assist against him and Jason Demers. Barkov has faced very good competition and was able to step up and outplay them. Impressive year overall but when you think that majority of the season was against NHL-lockout players it makes it even more special.

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04-30-2013, 12:42 PM
  #835
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First of all Barkov broke up every possible record for draft eligible player in FEL and most of the season it was against NHL-lockout players. We actual saw him playing against players like Mikko Koivu, Erik Karlsson, Rich Peverley, Jussi Jokinen and many more NHL-players. Barkov actually played with Jannik Hanssen and was better than him. Hanssen is considered as strong defensive player but Barkov was as good if not better. I saw him matched against Mikko Koivu who is #1 C in the NHL and he outplayed him in every way(Craig Button talks about it). Saw him making Jussi Jokinen as nonfactor and putting up 3 assist against him and Jason Demers. Barkov has faced very good competition and was able to step up and outplay them. Impressive year overall but when you think that majority of the season was against NHL-lockout players it makes it even more special.
Thanks.

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Old
04-30-2013, 01:31 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Ok better question and this comes from someone doesn't watch SM-liiga. Should we even look at Barkov's stats? Is this Finnish league strong right now? Is he putting up those stats because the league isn't as good? I'm not singling out SM-liiga as you can say this about any league. Just asking if we should even use his stats at all.
Anytime a young player breaks a record it's an indication on that player. It has to be properly weighted though. Is the sm-liiga a perfect leage? No, but it's impressive that a 17 year old is putting up top 10 numbers in it. There's an inherent problem with stay scouting in any league, that goes for the chl as well as the sel. The sm-Liiga is a high end league. It's not like barkov is tearing up a third tier league. There's a reason almost everyone has him top 5, and it goes beyond stats.

You can't look at a past player and say said future player will fail because of it. This applies to comparing nichushkin to radulov, jones to Johnson, or barkov to Granlund. Players are different, they have different attitudes, situations, body types, and drives.

You shouldn't look at barkov and think he's going to struggle because Granlund is, or think he'll become like jokinen because they have similar builds and te same passport, nor use the league as a reason to knock him down. You wouldn't use drouin a AAA time as a weakness, nor Jamie Benn's bchl draft year to say he's a bust.

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04-30-2013, 01:36 PM
  #837
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Lots of right place right time goals. Which is a good quality. He wouldn't be getting those chances in Nashville though as we likely have already lost the puck.

I'd be more persuaded if I saw more dynamic play.

So question for people who have watched him play. Is he more reliant on other players setting him up with good chances or is he a force on the ice that creates chances for himself?

Granted that is just a snapshot. But he looks like Jason Arnott.
In answer to the question, no. He's driving the play and offensive chances, minor just relying on others. He's more like kopitar/Thornton in tht manner. He's just absurdly smart and knows where to be which results in goals (this is how te best players Score), but his playmaking is where you really see his driving of the offensive game, using his body to protect the puck and open room for others so he can plop the puck on their stick for a goal.

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04-30-2013, 01:41 PM
  #838
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I think anyone in top five is safe pick.
I just hope poile doesn't take Lindholm over barkov, although Carolina would be pretty happy if he did...

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04-30-2013, 01:54 PM
  #839
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Still on the Barkov train, but man Nichuskin sounds like a beast the more I read about him.

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04-30-2013, 02:43 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Tappara team doctor Michel Tanus who tells about the injury and recovery time. No need for speculation.


http://yle.fi/urheilu/aleksander_bar...alussa/6561677
That was not speculation, but a shortened version of an actual article in Urheilusanomat two weeks ago. I can't post it because it's in the paper version.

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04-30-2013, 02:44 PM
  #841
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Alexandr Svitov
Stanislav Chistov
Jani Rita
Benoit Pouliot


Just a reminder that even with advanced scouting, s*** Happens

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04-30-2013, 02:53 PM
  #842
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While I was all about Seth Jones yesterday, here is a list of every D-men taken first overall since 1974 (stopped at Denis Potvin in '73):

1974 Greg Joly
1976 Rick Green
1979 Rob Ramage
1982 Gord Kluzak
1992 Roman Hamrlik
1995 Bryan Berard
1996 Chris Phillips
2006 Erik Johnson

Yikes. Outside of Ramage (and Johnson, I guess), that sucks.

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04-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
While I was all about Seth Jones yesterday, here is a list of every D-men taken first overall since 1974 (stopped at Denis Potvin in '73):

1974 Greg Joly
1976 Rick Green
1979 Rob Ramage
1982 Gord Kluzak
1992 Roman Hamrlik
1995 Bryan Berard
1996 Chris Phillips
2006 Erik Johnson

Yikes. Outside of Ramage (and Johnson, I guess), that sucks.
Ramage was ok. Green was a solid defensive defenseman. Phillips isn't a bad defenseman either. Now granted, they are number 1's but still, Green won a Cup in Montreal and was a beast in their run.

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04-30-2013, 03:02 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by AtrickhayOrnqvistpay View Post
Ramage was ok. Green was a solid defensive defenseman. Phillips isn't a bad defenseman either. Now granted, they are number 1's but still, Green won a Cup in Montreal and was a beast in their run.
I guess recent #1's have us spoiled (Stammer, Kane, Crosby, OV), but most on that list were just OK. I'd be pissed spending a first overall on any of them (in hindsight).

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04-30-2013, 03:09 PM
  #845
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Erik Johnson gets a bad rap, but bear in mind he missed an ENTIRE YEAR with a broken leg shortly after being drafted. I'm not sure he ever recovered, although he's definitely a solid player now (would gladly plug him into that second pair with Klein if ever possible).

if not for that, he was heralded as the NHL's next great defenseman, and I think he could have done it.

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04-30-2013, 03:29 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
While I was all about Seth Jones yesterday, here is a list of every D-men taken first overall since 1974 (stopped at Denis Potvin in '73):

1974 Greg Joly
1976 Rick Green
1979 Rob Ramage
1982 Gord Kluzak
1992 Roman Hamrlik
1995 Bryan Berard
1996 Chris Phillips
2006 Erik Johnson

Yikes. Outside of Ramage (and Johnson, I guess), that sucks.
Of those years, how many of the top 5 or tens had better forwards taken?

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04-30-2013, 03:29 PM
  #847
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Erik Johnson will look good playing with Seth jones though

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04-30-2013, 03:41 PM
  #848
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I personally would never pick a D-man very high simply because they take longer to truely develop. Generally speaking you can stick a forward out there at a young age and he can develop well in the NHL, There is a risk in doing that with a D-man or goalie as they generally don't develop well in the NHL. They are better off working on their game in the CHL/AHL.

If we had won the lottery I would be begging to trade out of the spot or simply draft Mack. I do think Jones will be a very good player but has to be handled properly.

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Old
04-30-2013, 03:41 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
Of those years, how many of the top 5 or tens had better forwards taken?
2006-Toews, Kessel
1996-JP Dumont? (nobody really)
1995-Redden, Doan, Iggy
1992-Kasparaitis

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04-30-2013, 03:45 PM
  #850
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While I'm 100 percent on board with drafting a forward (and I get the impression that Barkov is who the Predators want, even ahead of some 'flashier' names that could fall)

I would like to see the bulk of remaining picks spent on defensemen. The cupboard is getting pretty bare there, it would be nice to find a couple in the 3rd\4th rounds that turn into NHL players with second pairing upside.

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