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Old
04-29-2013, 01:53 PM
  #176
T-Funk
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Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan View Post
He came into training camp in terrible shape. The consequence was him not playing.
Is he still not in shape? If so, then he has nothing to complain about.

Is he in shape now and is still being punished for coming into camp out of shape in a lockout shortened gongshow season? Then he might have the right to complain.

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04-29-2013, 02:25 PM
  #177
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I understand Whitney's frustration, and in many some respects he's right, others could have been scratched. But he wasn't good enough this year, it was a rotating cast of defensemen that couldn't get the job done, and Whitney was a major part of that.
I agree with this. Someone posted earlier that Whitney is the new Souray, and while Souray was and is the better player, the similarities between their tenures in Edmonton are eerie.

Both players have larger personality types, kind of like the attention of being a star and are seen as maybe a bit high on themselves. But they also have reputations as up front, straight-shooting sort of guys. Good team mates and good players in this league.

Both guys are vociferously praised on this board for their refreshing honesty during their first seasons here. When Souray was putting up a monster year for this team in 08/09 and walking the talk about the level of commitment required in the NHL there were calls on this board for him to be captain. When Whitney came in and had 27 points in 35 games after the Visnovsky trade posters here couldn't get enough of how great this guy was. Pretty sure there was one interview in particular soon after he got to Edmonton where he kind of said that some guys on the team needed to start working a little harder and be a little less accepting of losing by one goal every night. Rapturous calls on hfoil for more guys like Whitney please.

Both guys get named Assistant captains and the city loves them. Then all the love disintegrates as the very next season both players are injured and their outspoken ways start to become less attractive when they have five points, double digit minus and can't play the game they need to play to be effective.

Friction with team officials (Souray with Tamby and his injury status, and Whitney with Krueger and the lame "system" he employs) cause the player to lose favor among those calling the shots. Player is then healthy scratched and media hacks are dispatched to trash their reputations on air, in print and on the net.

Based on all that, look for Whitney to go somewhere else and flourish, much like Souray has been excellent for the Stars and Ducks, and Visnovsky who tried desperately to avoid going to Long Island, yet somehow was able to reach an adult compromise (after a public spat with the team) to resign there.

And while I don't disagree that Whitney wasn't near good enough this year and he has to own that, it does seem puzzling that this team can continue to wreck or fail to utilize perfectly good NHL defensemen like Whitney and Souray. Yet they have us on a steady rotation of Barkers and Fosters and Potters and Vandermeers and Suttons who for various reasons are barely holding onto NHL careers when they come to town.

Next will be N Schultz who was by all accounts a good NHLer yet he comes to Edmonton and in six months turns into a guy who is minus fifteen and most posters already have him on the discard pile.

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04-29-2013, 02:31 PM
  #178
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Harpoon I would generally agree, but many people were happy Souray was gone from Montreal and many more were happy when Whitney left Pittsburgh and Anaheim. It's not just us.

The funny thing with Ralph's system is that the only time Whitney looked good this year was when he finally bought in for a while.

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04-29-2013, 02:37 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Harpoon I would generally agree, but many people were happy Souray was gone from Montreal and many more were happy when Whitney left Pittsburgh and Anaheim. It's not just us.

The funny thing with Ralph's system is that the only time Whitney looked good this year was when he finally bought in for a while.
Funny how that time was when he was speculated to be targeted by other teams at the deadline. Once the deadline passed he seemed to not care at all.

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04-29-2013, 02:57 PM
  #180
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Funny how that time was when he was speculated to be targeted by other teams at the deadline. Once the deadline passed he seemed to not care at all.
Yup, but to be fair the entire team outside our core players did that too.

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04-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Yup, but to be fair the entire team outside our core players did that too.
Pretty much.

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04-29-2013, 03:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Is he still not in shape? If so, then he has nothing to complain about.

Is he in shape now and is still being punished for coming into camp out of shape in a lockout shortened gongshow season? Then he might have the right to complain.
Dude caught Mono

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Old
04-29-2013, 04:04 PM
  #183
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Dude caught Mono
Too much kissing, not enough working out.

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Old
04-29-2013, 10:10 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
I agree with this. Someone posted earlier that Whitney is the new Souray, and while Souray was and is the better player, the similarities between their tenures in Edmonton are eerie.

Both players have larger personality types, kind of like the attention of being a star and are seen as maybe a bit high on themselves. But they also have reputations as up front, straight-shooting sort of guys. Good team mates and good players in this league.

Both guys are vociferously praised on this board for their refreshing honesty during their first seasons here. When Souray was putting up a monster year for this team in 08/09 and walking the talk about the level of commitment required in the NHL there were calls on this board for him to be captain. When Whitney came in and had 27 points in 35 games after the Visnovsky trade posters here couldn't get enough of how great this guy was. Pretty sure there was one interview in particular soon after he got to Edmonton where he kind of said that some guys on the team needed to start working a little harder and be a little less accepting of losing by one goal every night. Rapturous calls on hfoil for more guys like Whitney please.

Both guys get named Assistant captains and the city loves them. Then all the love disintegrates as the very next season both players are injured and their outspoken ways start to become less attractive when they have five points, double digit minus and can't play the game they need to play to be effective.

Friction with team officials (Souray with Tamby and his injury status, and Whitney with Krueger and the lame "system" he employs) cause the player to lose favor among those calling the shots. Player is then healthy scratched and media hacks are dispatched to trash their reputations on air, in print and on the net.

Based on all that, look for Whitney to go somewhere else and flourish, much like Souray has been excellent for the Stars and Ducks, and Visnovsky who tried desperately to avoid going to Long Island, yet somehow was able to reach an adult compromise (after a public spat with the team) to resign there.

And while I don't disagree that Whitney wasn't near good enough this year and he has to own that, it does seem puzzling that this team can continue to wreck or fail to utilize perfectly good NHL defensemen like Whitney and Souray. Yet they have us on a steady rotation of Barkers and Fosters and Potters and Vandermeers and Suttons who for various reasons are barely holding onto NHL careers when they come to town.

Next will be N Schultz who was by all accounts a good NHLer yet he comes to Edmonton and in six months turns into a guy who is minus fifteen and most posters already have him on the discard pile.
Whitney had the good sense and ball sack to give an even keel, open interview during media day.

Surly Souray opted for a parking lot meltdown with a sole, handpicked media who was all too willing to be an accomplice to a one side hatchet job on management.

Big difference when one player is willing to stand and deliver in an open media call. Whitney took questions and openly answered them.

I can accept Whitney's frustrations and competitive fire under the circumstances. Souray was also made rich by this organization but chose the weasel way out.

Had Souray shown any remorse for his chosen method of attaching management publicly perhaps the nasty divorce would have been handled differently.

Whit has shown much stronger character and professionalism.

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04-29-2013, 11:18 PM
  #185
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Kind of funny how almost everyone here hates the Oilers management, is constantly criticizing them, yet when Whitney hints at his dissatisfaction with management we crucify him.

That being said Whitney should take more responsibility for his play and it would have been best if he just kept his mouth shut. Remember Dustin Penner on his way out? He endured some ****** years with the Oilers but I'd say he left on pretty good terms.

I can see why Whitney would be upset though. The guy gets traded here from Anaheim, gets injured, is stuck on a rebuilding team. Obviously the guy didn't want to be in this situation, and all things considered I think he handled it OK. We should have traded him a while back, basically wasted some of his prime years.

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04-30-2013, 01:11 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
Kind of funny how almost everyone here hates the Oilers management, is constantly criticizing them, yet when Whitney hints at his dissatisfaction with management we crucify him.

That being said Whitney should take more responsibility for his play and it would have been best if he just kept his mouth shut. Remember Dustin Penner on his way out? He endured some ****** years with the Oilers but I'd say he left on pretty good terms.

I can see why Whitney would be upset though. The guy gets traded here from Anaheim, gets injured, is stuck on a rebuilding team. Obviously the guy didn't want to be in this situation, and all things considered I think he handled it OK. We should have traded him a while back, basically wasted some of his prime years.
The only thing that wasted Ryan Whitney's prime years was his feet. Would 139 games over three and a half years really be much different anywhere else? Like you said, he should have kept his mouth shut. He also should have played hockey during the lockout instead of riding his BMX around Bahstan while thinking up witty twitter comments.

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Old
04-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Too much kissing, not enough working out.
Its really unfortunate for the guy though. He was working out and in great shape all summer and would have been ready for training camp in September but because of the lockout, training camp was delayed til January and he probably just lost the motivation a bit thinking that there would be no season.

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04-30-2013, 06:22 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
Whitney had the good sense and ball sack to give an even keel, open interview during media day.

Surly Souray opted for a parking lot meltdown with a sole, handpicked media who was all too willing to be an accomplice to a one side hatchet job on management.

Big difference when one player is willing to stand and deliver in an open media call. Whitney took questions and openly answered them.

I can accept Whitney's frustrations and competitive fire under the circumstances. Souray was also made rich by this organization but chose the weasel way out.

Had Souray shown any remorse for his chosen method of attaching management publicly perhaps the nasty divorce would have been handled differently.

Whit has shown much stronger character and professionalism.
You're paying too much attention to off the ice actions and not on it. These guys aren't paid to work PR, they are hockey players. Everybody reacts differently, states things differently, responds differently. Is one reaction better then the other? Really?

Where it counts, on the ice, Souray left it there on most nights and had played so well for the team for so long that he was considered captain material. Conversely Whitney spent the last 2 seasons sulking with his situation here and was a horrible hockey player on the ice who whined a whole lot more, and repeatedly, then Souray did.

We all get different takes, which is fine, but I couldn't disagree more with you on this one. If flat out moping and sucking professionalism in your eyes? I don't get that, Whitney didn't extend himself here, he didn't make any effort. He knew he was gone and sleepwalked through the season.

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04-30-2013, 07:44 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by robbiezyg View Post
Its really unfortunate for the guy though. He was working out and in great shape all summer and would have been ready for training camp in September but because of the lockout, training camp was delayed til January and he probably just lost the motivation a bit thinking that there would be no season.
I'm not a pro athlete and I try to stay in shape year round regardless of circumstance.

Having that mentality is a no no considering how ****** our team is. Last we need is more unmotivated individuals

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04-30-2013, 10:35 PM
  #190
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Ufortunately, this wasn't the first year that Peckham was out of shape to begin Training Camp. He has to recommit himself to fitness, if he hopes to stay in the league. As Kruger said in his exit interview, the off season is a time for a player to make huge strides in their game through a solid training regimen. Gagner is proof of it, as his commitment to off-season training impacted his game enormously this season. Peckham needs to behave like a professional; he's being well paid to act like one.

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04-30-2013, 10:52 PM
  #191
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Ufortunately, this wasn't the first year that Peckham was out of shape to begin Training Camp. He has to recommit himself to fitness, if he hopes to stay in the league. As Kruger said in his exit interview, the off season is a time for a player to make huge strides in their game through a solid training regimen. Gagner is proof of it, as his commitment to off-season training impacted his game enormously this season. Peckham needs to behave like a professional; he's being well paid to act like one.
Unless Theo is willing to take the league min. and a two way he should not be back.

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05-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #192
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Unless Theo is willing to take the league min. and a two way he should not be back.
I think that applies to the NHL in general too.. no team will give him more.

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Old
05-02-2013, 11:18 AM
  #193
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TP basically wasted a year and didn't even get the chance to showcase to any other team in the NHL that he deserves to be in it. Unless the Oilers give him a training camp invite he is going to be hard pressed to stay in the league period. To the minors you go is what I see.

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05-02-2013, 12:18 PM
  #194
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Its hilarious how its always somebody else. Nobody on this club has more input into how bad this club has been for years than Horcoff. I'll note as well that in addition to his futility all over the ice he didn't even manage to be 50% on the dot this year playing weak minutes and often against 3rd line centers. This guy is a ****ing sorry joke. Get his ass out of here.
It's all the young players' fault, don't you know? He's not getting any younger...

Just once I would like to hear a mea culpa along the lines of what Scott Gomez said last year. But no - he's a rockstar and takes very little responsibility for the teams failures, but has no problem at all including himself as a big part of the team's success when they win some games.

He provides next to no offense for the minutes he plays. He's slow and whenever he's on the ice it's a fire drill in our end. The myth of him being some faceoff wizard certainly must have been debunked by now? His 4th consecutive season at less than 50%.

I was really hoping this joker would be bought out (seriously - you can't replace sub 50%FO and 30 points for less than $5.5?), but with MacT at the helm, wouldn't be surprised to see him signed to an extension...

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05-02-2013, 12:26 PM
  #195
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It's all the young players' fault, don't you know? He's not getting any younger...

Just once I would like to hear a mea culpa along the lines of what Scott Gomez said last year. But no - he's a rockstar and takes very little responsibility for the teams failures, but has no problem at all including himself as a big part of the team's success when they win some games.

He provides next to no offense for the minutes he plays. He's slow and whenever he's on the ice it's a fire drill in our end. The myth of him being some faceoff wizard certainly must have been debunked by now? His 4th consecutive season at less than 50%.

I was really hoping this joker would be bought out (seriously - you can't replace sub 50%FO and 30 points for less than $5.5?), but with MacT at the helm, wouldn't be surprised to see him signed to an extension...
The Horcologists will be all over this post.

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05-02-2013, 01:59 PM
  #196
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The Horcologists will be all over this post.
Apparently even they have died out. I think theres maybe one left in the blogosphere old myths dying hard and all.

Horc must be good in some advanced stat bifurcation that has little to do with the actual game of hockey.

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05-02-2013, 02:09 PM
  #197
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"oilerbear" is beavering away on some numbers as we speak.

When he reports back, I suspect it will be something along the lines of relative corsi per dollar of caphit.

I can't wait.

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05-02-2013, 02:18 PM
  #198
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Actually, I just looked it up and Horcoff's "Corsi Rel" isn't all that impressive: -4.4.

By comparison, Nugent-Hopkins is up near 20.

I thought Corsi Rel was one of Horcoff's strong suits? I assume this must be the fault of Horcoff's linemates, isn't that right oilerbear?

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