HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

The Vanek Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-30-2013, 04:20 PM
  #251
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,593
vCash: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
If I'm Regier I'm asking for the Nash deal from any team if they want to start negotiating with me for Vanek.

Nash got:
Dubinski
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

So I want:
2 Top6/9 tweeners who are younger
Top 5 team prospect
1st Round Pick

I know Nash was already signed, but he was signed at 7.1 million a year for the next 8? (My numbers may be off)

Vanek might not command as much from a team for salay due to the lowering cap.
Vanek won't command what you want because the dropping cap will make other scorers available and because he has only 1 yr on his deal.

The time to move him is the trade deadline, when it's seller's market.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 04:22 PM
  #252
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Vanek won't command what you want because the dropping cap will make other scorers available and because he has only 1 yr on his deal.

The time to move him is the trade deadline, when it's seller's market.
I actually think his value is higher now then it is at the deadline(especially if you give teams a chance to sign a deal first to extend his contract)

boredmale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 04:24 PM
  #253
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 34,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Sure, just like Pominville got a small return because of his contract status.
Vanek is likely to be, by a large margin, the best forward available this summer. Regier will absolutely be able to bring back valuable pieces for him.
Pommer brought a nice return, it was a good quantity for quality deal... but not a single high end piece came back in that deal... Minny didn't have to part with Coyle, Brodin, Dumba, or Granlund... let's be honest...

are you saying you'd be happy with a deal for Vanek that was similar to Pommers? because you just turned down a great offer from Toronto, so I fail to see how you grasp trade value

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 04:53 PM
  #254
jkrdevil
UnRegistered User
 
jkrdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 30,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I actually think his value is higher now then it is at the deadline(especially if you give teams a chance to sign a deal first to extend his contract)
Yea if you are going to deal, you deal him in the summer. Otherwise you get a Kovalchuk type package of a flameout, a b prospect, a seviceable player and a first round pick (low at that)

jkrdevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:08 PM
  #255
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
The Kings need a LW to play on the 2nd with Richards and Carter, and Vanek would look great there.

The cap would be tricky, though. And I'm sure the cost would be something like a 1st/2nd + Toffoli/Vey + Martinez/Muzzin. Vanek is a great talent and I hope Lombardi inquires, but I see him going to a team with a lot of payroll space.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:15 PM
  #256
NuxFan09
Registered User
 
NuxFan09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,825
vCash: 500
The Sabres would be insane to trade Vanek. Through the good seasons and the bad ones, he's been one of the best goal scorers in the league. They'll wish they had a guy like Vanek when they start to contend.

NuxFan09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:16 PM
  #257
parineum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
The Sabres would be insane to trade Vanek. Through the good seasons and the bad ones, he's been one of the best goal scorers in the league. They'll wish they had a guy like Vanek when they start to contend.
This is why it's being talked about.

parineum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:16 PM
  #258
Sterling31
YNWA
 
Sterling31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
Wouldn't be surprised if Miller gets shipped at the deadline to a team that considers themselves a goalie away. Vanek going soon after.

Pick up another 1st and draft away;

Fucale being one of the picks.

Sterling31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:20 PM
  #259
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Uh, how now? JVR is not currently a better player than Vanek, and I doubt he'll have as good a career in total. Gardiner has nice upside, but hasn't looked great in the NHL this year, and the 1st obviously has no impact on our roster yet.
well i guess this is where our opinion differs then. JVR brings the sabres some needed size and grit, you guys have a pretty small team, especially up front.

gardiner will deifnitely be an NHL regular this upcoming season and I woudln't be surprised if he played in your top-4

vanek exploded at the start of the season no doubt, but I see him maybe getting ~20 more points than JVR next year if both are fully healthy. and gardiner + JVR's intangibles will overcome that 20 point difference, not to mention the 1st round pick on top of that

bumperkisser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:53 PM
  #260
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Pommer brought a nice return, it was a good quantity for quality deal... but not a single high end piece came back in that deal... Minny didn't have to part with Coyle, Brodin, Dumba, or Granlund... let's be honest...

are you saying you'd be happy with a deal for Vanek that was similar to Pommers? because you just turned down a great offer from Toronto, so I fail to see how you grasp trade value
No I didn't. I was debating a poster who said that deal made us better now.
And yeah, I would be happy to get a similar return to the Pommer deal (+). Either 1 top shelf prospect instead of 2 good ones, or with the addition of a decent roster player coming back, etc.

ETA: I would probably take JVR + Gardiner or the pick.


Last edited by tsujimoto74: 04-30-2013 at 06:08 PM.
tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 05:57 PM
  #261
tsujimoto74
Moderator
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
well i guess this is where our opinion differs then. JVR brings the sabres some needed size and grit, you guys have a pretty small team, especially up front.

gardiner will deifnitely be an NHL regular this upcoming season and I woudln't be surprised if he played in your top-4

vanek exploded at the start of the season no doubt, but I see him maybe getting ~20 more points than JVR next year if both are fully healthy. and gardiner + JVR's intangibles will overcome that 20 point difference, not to mention the 1st round pick on top of that
I'm not arguing value here. That deal is good; it just doesn't make Buffalo better now. Which is fine, we're rebuilding; it doesn't need to.

tsujimoto74 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 06:01 PM
  #262
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,593
vCash: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I actually think his value is higher now then it is at the deadline(especially if you give teams a chance to sign a deal first to extend his contract)
Someone posted you can't extend his contract until July, after the draft.

I guess the Sabres could allow gms to talk to his agent before the draft. Workout an extension, then sign it as soon as the rules allow.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 06:13 PM
  #263
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 6,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Someone posted you can't extend his contract until July, after the draft.

I guess the Sabres could allow gms to talk to his agent before the draft. Workout an extension, then sign it as soon as the rules allow.
the permission to talk about doing an extension could be used as a bargaining chip in trade talks.

Teams know they arent trading for a 1 yr rental player.

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 06:19 PM
  #264
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,945
vCash: 500
I would move him for a Pominville return

1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:11 PM
  #265
Wondercarrot
Classless
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksheep71 View Post
would you include Matt Puempel with Jared Cowen and the No1?
Jared Cowen is quite simply not going anywhere, not for Vanek or any other forward that would realistically be offered.

He is not replaceable for us.

#1 pick
Matt Puempel
Smith or Greening (or another prospect like Ceci or Stone maybe, depending on FW or D preference)

we can give you a good forward, no defencemen (well that's not true no EK, Cowen, or Methot.)

Wondercarrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:26 PM
  #266
ZeroPT
Overpayed
 
ZeroPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,519
vCash: 450
As a Sabres fan I would look at packages like this:
NJD
Urbom
9th OV
Josefson

PHX
Gormley
1st

PHI
Couts/Read
1st
Cousins

Thats what kind of package i would want for Vanek with half of his salary retained.

ZeroPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:35 PM
  #267
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinogol View Post
As a Sabres fan I would look at packages like this:
NJD
Urbom
9th OV
Josefson

PHX
Gormley
1st

PHI
Couts/Read
1st
Cousins

Thats what kind of package i would want for Vanek with half of his salary retained.
One of these deals is not like the others.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:40 PM
  #268
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 14,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
One of these deals is not like the others.
The Flyers one is awful with Couturier.

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:42 PM
  #269
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
The Flyers one is awful with Couturier.
I think the Phoenix one and Philly one are both overpayment considering where their firsts are and the players coming back. I think the Devils one is terrible, although I admit I don't know much about Urbom. No interest at all for Josefson.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:45 PM
  #270
tmack224
Registered User
 
tmack224's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinogol View Post
As a Sabres fan I would look at packages like this:
NJD
Urbom
9th OV
Josefson

PHX
Gormley
1st

PHI
Couts/Read
1st
Cousins

Thats what kind of package i would want for Vanek with half of his salary retained.
I like how couts is suck in there as an option lol I'm a Sabres fan and I can't see Couts a first and cousins as fair value.

tmack224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:47 PM
  #271
DatsyukToZetterberg
Alligator!
 
DatsyukToZetterberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
If I'm Regier I'm asking for the Nash deal from any team if they want to start negotiating with me for Vanek.

Nash got:
Dubinski
Anisimov
Erixon
1st

So I want:
2 Top6/9 tweeners who are younger
Top 5 team prospect
1st Round Pick

I know Nash was already signed, but he was signed at 7.1 million a year for the next 8? (My numbers may be off)

Vanek might not command as much from a team for salay due to the lowering cap.
I can't see him returning that much. Nash while having a big cap hit has proven that he is worth it, the reason he was able to get that much was because he was signed for the next 5+ years. When you're giving up cheap, cost controllable assets you want to have someone that will be on your team for the long(er) term, say 3+ years.

I could see him getting that much if the other team is able to discuss him signing an extension with them before the trade. If he can't I don't see a team gutting their prospects/depth for a guy that might wake in 12 months time.

A player like Vanek has all of his value tied into his scoring ability. When he's not scoring he doesn't have anything else to make up for it; he doesn't PK, he isn't overly physical and he isn't a defensive stalwart. This would lead me to be a bit cautious when going after him, especially if your team already had a streaky scorer, especially when we usually starts off extremely hot only to cool down later in the season.

If I was the GM of Wings I'd offer like this, this is without a contract extension in place.

Tatar+Andersson+Ouellet+2014 2nd, becomes 2014/2015 1st if he re-signs.

You get a 3rd liner with top 6 potential (I think Tatar has 30-30 potential), a 4th line C who has some offensive potential, I think around 15-15 is possible, Ouellet who has top 4 upside, possibly #2/3, & a pick which changes when/if he re-signs.

If you can get him to sign an extension then the prospects/picks become better because you can afford to move them.

DatsyukToZetterberg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:48 PM
  #272
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 10,130
vCash: 500
Change Couts/Read to Mezaros and you might have the beginnings of a deal. The Flyers can't a afford to add $6m to the cap next season.

Curufinwe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:55 PM
  #273
ZeroPT
Overpayed
 
ZeroPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,519
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
The Flyers one is awful with Couturier.
not exactly what i would want but somethin around that

Young roster player
1st top15
prospect

ZeroPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:56 PM
  #274
ZeroPT
Overpayed
 
ZeroPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,519
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Change Couts/Read to Mezaros and you might have the beginnings of a deal. The Flyers can't a afford to add $6m to the cap next season.
he would be at abour 3.5-3.75 the sabres would definately retain salary if it meant improving a players value.

ZeroPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2013, 07:57 PM
  #275
ZeroPT
Overpayed
 
ZeroPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,519
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
I like how couts is suck in there as an option lol I'm a Sabres fan and I can't see Couts a first and cousins as fair value.
Hmm, why not? just out of curiosity

ZeroPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.