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Old
04-30-2013, 07:11 PM
  #476
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Since Petro will get matched no matter what out of curiosity what do you see the Flyers offering up for Shatty? Would have to be around 6 per for Blues to possibly walk away and that is overpaying quit a bit.
I said that a bit in jest--I don't really expect an offer sheet.

That said, I'm not sure that the Flyers would blink at $6AAV if they believed Shattenkirk could be the top-pairing PMD they need.

Quote:
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Jason Akeson ($0.900m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Scott Laughton ($1.138m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kevin Shattenkirk ($6.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Bruno Gervais ($0.825m) /
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,730,595; BONUSES: $3,172,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $1,258,095
Obviously that roster would require us to put Pronger on LTIR for the whole season (though there would be about $3.5 free once Pronger was placed on LTIR), and it is pretty thin at forward. In truth, I'd expect that any major salary acquisition requires moving Meszaros one way or another.

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04-30-2013, 07:14 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I said that a bit in jest--I don't really expect an offer sheet.

That said, I'm not sure that the Flyers would blink at $6AAV if they believed Shattenkirk could be the top-pairing PMD they need.



Obviously that roster would require us to put Pronger on LTIR for the whole season (though there would be about $3.5 free once Pronger was placed on LTIR), and it is pretty thin at forward. In truth, I'd expect that any major salary acquisition requires moving Meszaros one way or another.
You got it in one. An off-season priority should be to find someone interested in acquiring Meszaros for anything.

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04-30-2013, 07:19 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Since Petro will get matched no matter what out of curiosity what do you see the Flyers offering up for Shatty? Would have to be around 6 per for Blues to possibly walk away and that is overpaying quit a bit.
It was just a baseless rumor started by one of our idiot writers here in Philly. Just because of last summer with the Weber offersheet they've been constantly writing about offersheeting any big name RFA now.

It maybe from a Blues standpoint because they would have leverage. Personally I think Shattenkirk would easily get $6M on the open market. I don't see that as overpayment. Teams have been throwing crazy money at defensemen the last couple of summers and not a lot of them are as intriguing as Shattenkirk.

In the end I'm not expecting an offersheet to any player this summer. We have some guys we need to lock up specifically Giroux who may command $7M+.


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04-30-2013, 07:30 PM
  #479
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Holmgren should just troll the Blues mercilessly and fax through a few cover sheets a day marked OFFER SHEET, page 1 of 20, and then nothing.

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04-30-2013, 08:07 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I said that a bit in jest--I don't really expect an offer sheet.

That said, I'm not sure that the Flyers would blink at $6AAV if they believed Shattenkirk could be the top-pairing PMD they need.



Obviously that roster would require us to put Pronger on LTIR for the whole season (though there would be about $3.5 free once Pronger was placed on LTIR), and it is pretty thin at forward. In truth, I'd expect that any major salary acquisition requires moving Meszaros one way or another.
Agreed they'd probably need to move Meszaros in that scenario. Gus/Grossmann could be a very nice 3rd pairing, and they'd probably sign a depth guy that could play in ADK and come up when somebody gets hurt (unless you're OK with Lauridsen being that guy).

I'd have to look around, but I wonder if there's a "buy low" type of forward out there that they could swap Mez for. That's a lot of youth up front, particularly on the left side. Or they could just move Mez as a straight dump and see what Gagne will take to come back.

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04-30-2013, 08:10 PM
  #481
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There have been many, many threads about the prospects of an offer sheet on Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk. The discussion gets a bit redundant--and then falls into flaming. Most of them pre-date the Flyers interest--but perhaps we should steer clear of encouraging any more for a little while (this means you, Panaccio).

As far as Blues fans are concerned, there is no cap issue, and the two sides will come to an agreement once the season is concluded. Who knows whether that is right or not, but there's really nothing productive that can come out of endless speculation about whether or not an offersheet is possible until we get closer to July.

Honestly, most Blues fans have handled it with a great deal of grace and class. It must be annoying to constantly be told that your team is broke and can't keep its best players. Maybe they are wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that they've got the best sense of the state of the organization.

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04-30-2013, 09:16 PM
  #482
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I think 6 per on shatty is about 1 mill more than he would resign for and therefore not crazy overpayment given this climate. I think the flyers need to think very strongly about offer sheeting him

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04-30-2013, 09:34 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
There have been many, many threads about the prospects of an offer sheet on Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk. The discussion gets a bit redundant--and then falls into flaming. Most of them pre-date the Flyers interest--but perhaps we should steer clear of encouraging any more for a little while (this means you, Panaccio).

As far as Blues fans are concerned, there is no cap issue, and the two sides will come to an agreement once the season is concluded. Who knows whether that is right or not, but there's really nothing productive that can come out of endless speculation about whether or not an offersheet is possible until we get closer to July.

Honestly, most Blues fans have handled it with a great deal of grace and class. It must be annoying to constantly be told that your team is broke and can't keep its best players. Maybe they are wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that they've got the best sense of the state of the organization.
Sorry if I came across as trying to troll or anything I just know how bad some Flyers fans want to get a top notch d-man and since AP would be matched was wondering if the Flyers did go after Shatty how high they think management would go AAV.

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04-30-2013, 09:35 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I think 6 per on shatty is about 1 mill more than he would resign for and therefore not crazy overpayment given this climate. I think the flyers need to think very strongly about offer sheeting him
Blues fans think they will get him at close to 4 lol. And 5.5 for Piet. They are nuts lol.

I would give Shatty 6- 6.5 and Piet close to 8

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04-30-2013, 10:56 PM
  #485
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Holmgren should just troll the Blues mercilessly and fax through a few cover sheets a day marked OFFER SHEET, page 1 of 20, and then nothing.
Yeah he is going to pull another Parise and Suter pipe dream and then have some of his own key free agents and other league free agents get picked off by the rest of the teams in the league while he smokes his pipe...brilliant!

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04-30-2013, 10:59 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Blues fans think they will get him at close to 4 lol. And 5.5 for Piet. They are nuts lol.

I would give Shatty 6- 6.5 and Piet close to 8
Why would Piet get more than Karlsson?

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05-01-2013, 12:50 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Blues fans think they will get him at close to 4 lol. And 5.5 for Piet. They are nuts lol.

I would give Shatty 6- 6.5 and Piet close to 8
Ha yea def not 4 or even 4.5. 5 would be home town discount. I'm better piet gets 7.5. Up to the blues if they want that much in two dmen. I would do it but not sure if they will. Get these playoffs over already so we can make some moves haha

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05-01-2013, 06:12 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Why would Piet get more than Karlsson?
Why would he get less than Doughty?

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05-01-2013, 06:37 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Why would he get less than Doughty?
New cap situation. I'd be shocked if it's over Doughty's contract. Karlsson's seems like a better marker for elite defensemen signings in the near future. Over 7 in the near future for an RFA seems like they're pushing it.

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05-01-2013, 07:14 AM
  #490
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Matt Carle is probably somewhat of a decent comp for Shattenkirk, but Shatty is RFA and not UFA. 5ish AAV for Shatty, 7ish AAV for Pietrangelo. And St. Louis will probably keep them both.

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05-01-2013, 07:14 AM
  #491
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New cap situation. I'd be shocked if it's over Doughty's contract. Karlsson's seems like a better marker for elite defensemen signings in the near future. Over 7 in the near future for an RFA seems like they're pushing it.
Eh, I dunno. Doughty signed his extension when the cap was $64.3 as well--granted, it was projected to grow higher in the future, but the point shouldn't be exaggerated.

Basically, it seems to me that just because the Senators got a good deal with Karlsson, the Blues shouldn't necessarily expect one with Pietrangelo--but I know nothing of the kid, maybe he's the type to give a discount.

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05-01-2013, 08:04 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Yeah he is going to pull another Parise and Suter pipe dream and then have some of his own key free agents and other league free agents get picked off by the rest of the teams in the league while he smokes his pipe...brilliant!


I'm having trouble connecting the dots between our posts.

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05-01-2013, 08:07 AM
  #493
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Yeah he is going to pull another Parise and Suter pipe dream and then have some of his own key free agents and other league free agents get picked off by the rest of the teams in the league while he smokes his pipe...brilliant!
Who are our key free agents this offseason?

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05-01-2013, 08:20 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Who are our key free agents this offseason?
we really only have one UFA that I can see coming back: Gagne

Fedotenko, Shelley, Knuble, Hall, Walker, Foster, Huskins, Boucher, and Lilja all won't be back.

As for RFAs, we have Gustafsson, Lauridson, Wellwood and Manning, but neither should get significant raises. Kessel, Wahl, and Harper probably won't be qualified.

So to answer your question, we have one significant UFA, and 4 lesser signficant RFAs

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05-01-2013, 08:27 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
we really only have one UFA that I can see coming back: Gagne

Fedotenko, Shelley, Knuble, Hall, Walker, Foster, Huskins, Boucher, and Lilja all won't be back.

As for RFAs, we have Gustafsson, Lauridson, Wellwood and Manning, but neither should get significant raises. Kessel, Wahl, and Harper probably won't be qualified.

So to answer your question, we have one significant UFA, and 4 lesser signficant RFAs
Yeah--sorry, I should have included a sarcasm emotion.

I don't see a great risk of having our FA's picked off--a la Jagr/Carle. (Nor do I really think letting them go was a major mistake.)


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05-01-2013, 09:29 AM
  #496
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Yeah--sorry, I should have included a sarcasm emotion.

I don't see a great risk of having our FA's picked off--a la Jagr/Carle.
letting Carle go was still the right decision imo. he got way too much and even tampa fans know it. i was talking to a couple that were so fed up with him already that they said they wanted to keep him another year and if he didn't improve then they wanted to use an amnesty on him.

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05-01-2013, 09:31 AM
  #497
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The problem with offer sheets is that the player has to actually sign it and the team can't match for it to work. I can see why Weber would have signed because Philly would have been a perfect fit and Nashville's financial situation isn't the best. Plus they had just lost Suter and letting Weber go and getting all those 1sts would have been a good way to rebuild and make up for that loss. But I have a hard time seeing Piet or Shatty even wanting to come here, and if they did I'd say there's no way the GM doesn't match both. I'm going to say the chances of something like this actually happening are very, very slim to none.

Maybe if we actually focus on drafting and developing our own players and not trading them/our draft picks away then we won't have to worry about having to throw ridiculous amounts of money around every summer just to get players to actually want to come here.

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05-01-2013, 09:39 AM
  #498
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letting Carle go was still the right decision imo. he got way too much and even tampa fans know it. i was talking to a couple that were so fed up with him already that they said they wanted to keep him another year and if he didn't improve then they wanted to use an amnesty on him.
Yeah, I don't think anyone wanted Carle at $5.5, and honestly, as nice as Jagr might have been, who knows whether Voracek breaks out the same way if he's playing on the second line.

I was just pointing out that the poster's point--that Holmgren risks losing valued assets by chasing free agent fantasies--doesn't really apply this year because we don't have many guys left to re-sign.

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05-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #499
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Maybe if we actually focus on drafting and developing our own players and not trading them/our draft picks away then we won't have to worry about having to throw ridiculous amounts of money around every summer just to get players to actually want to come here.
The problem is, the organization isn't very good at drafting/developing defensemen. We are strong in our forward scouting/drafting however. Until we get better defensive scouts (I could see Pronger helping here, maybe even Kimmo after he retires), and the proper personnel in Adirondack to develop young defensemen, I have no problem with us filling our defensive holes via free agency and drafting around our strengths. In order to get a young, stud d-man via trade, we'd have to give up young assets, but the Flyers organization has proven time and again that they can strengthen our forward depth via draft, regardless of where we pick. I mean, at draft day last year, everyone was like who the hell is Scott Laughton? Now, he's tearing up the OHL and was competing for a roster spot this year.

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05-01-2013, 02:35 PM
  #500
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The problem is, the organization isn't very good at drafting/developing defensemen. We are strong in our forward scouting/drafting however. Until we get better defensive scouts (I could see Pronger helping here, maybe even Kimmo after he retires), and the proper personnel in Adirondack to develop young defensemen, I have no problem with us filling our defensive holes via free agency and drafting around our strengths. In order to get a young, stud d-man via trade, we'd have to give up young assets, but the Flyers organization has proven time and again that they can strengthen our forward depth via draft, regardless of where we pick. I mean, at draft day last year, everyone was like who the hell is Scott Laughton? Now, he's tearing up the OHL and was competing for a roster spot this year.
We don't even know if the Flyers suck at developing defensemen because they A) never draft defensemen high enough or B) trade them for vets!

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