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Old
04-30-2013, 11:18 AM
  #76
NastyNick
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Doesn't TK have more playoff games played then the entire Islanders roster? 47? Not sure what says.. but its funny

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04-30-2013, 11:40 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Ahh, I never did see that quote before. There's no question that BB is the better player, at both ends of the ice, right now. He's also got that kind of game-breaking creativity you want in the playoffs.

Also, I believe where there's smoke there's fire: 3 teams over the last 3 or 4 years, TSN (McKenzie, Dreger, or LeBrun) mentioned on their trade deadline show that certain players were available. 3 years ago they said Max Talbot could be had; last year they said that about Tangradi; and this year they said that about TK. IN each of those first 2 cases, the guys were gone within a year. There's no question the writing is on the wall for TK, though it would be nice if we could extract as much as possible for his rights in a trade.

But with all that said, and with virtually everyone agreeing on here that Bennett should be in the starting line-up over TK and perhaps even some others, I still hope that if TK does get the nod, he can elevate his game for us, because if he keeps playing the way he has been, he's not going to be much help for us at all. He is capable of performing better, so I hope he does just that if he gets the nod. If he doesn't, he'll be on a short leash and find himself in the pressbox pretty quickly, IMO.
thing is, is we know what Kennedy's top end is. Is that top end really all that better then what Bennett is displaying now? Throw in the fact that there is no doubt that Bennett is going to improve from here. (Although the biggest improvement we will get from him is probably after a full off season of training and putting on some more muscle)

TK was at his best with Staal/Cooke. Perhaps his best year is because he just clicked that much with Staal? I mean really this is the 2nd year that Kennedy has not lived up to his contract, he wasn't exactly all that last year either. I don't think a season and a half of mediocre-bad play is likely to be turned around in the next day when the playoffs start.

The most likely scenario, imo, is that TK will get the nod, he'll founder and Bennett will come in. TK is not going to garner a lot of serious interest regardless, if Mckenzie was saying he could be had then you know Shero put feelers out and no one was interested.

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04-30-2013, 12:01 PM
  #78
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TK has been a possession monster of a player in the past. His stick handling skill is top 6 IMO when he is down in the offensive zone. He is able to create offense himself and is constantly able to put himself in position to shoot the puck (although should probably learn to aim his shots better). You cannot deny that he has the talent to get himself in a position to shoot the puck on net, in comparison to Adams/Glass/Vitale. This year certainly has been one of his worst after losing Staal and having him being replaced by a much less skilled possession player in Sutter.

We are all down on TK now, but mark my words, he can (and probably will) score a big goal for the Pens in the playoffs. With that being said, his ceiling is only as high as BB is playing now. They aren't really close as players, currently. BB is going in one direction, while TK seems to be (sadly) declining. His shooting % has to rebound at some point....doesn't it?

He will be a good value pickup for a low salary team. His production will likely come back and he will be paid based on this year's low totals.

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04-30-2013, 02:55 PM
  #79
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There's one saving grace with TK, and that saving grace is a big "if." TK can hit hot streaks, and when he does, he racks up the goals. The guy is due.

Yeah, I'm just trying to be optimistic with him at this point since he won't be scratched.

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04-30-2013, 03:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
There's one saving grace with TK, and that saving grace is a big "if." TK can hit hot streaks, and when he does, he racks up the goals. The guy is due.

Yeah, I'm just trying to be optimistic with him at this point since he won't be scratched.
This...

Most Penguins fans seemed to back off the TK hate when he was moved to the 4th line. The thinking (assumedly) was that he had more energy and played a bit better with fewer minutes. Now that the team is so deep with the impending return of Crosby, TK is again stuck with tire tread on his back.

In any case, the guy will most assuredly get some team to offer him at least 2m/per, and I'd argue that most fans would be happy to see him go.

For the playoffs, however, depth cannot be overvalued, so whether it's TK or BB waiting in the wings, its a good 'problem' to have...

Edit- Both TK (throughout his career) and BB(SMALL SAMPLE SIZE) have been beasts on fenwick and corsi, and TK at one point in his career even led the team in both.

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04-30-2013, 03:22 PM
  #81
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The thing when comparing the two guys is that Beau has done absolutely everything he could do hockey wise to be in the lineup. I honestly couldn't have expected any more from the guy. His defensive game was as good, if not better, than his offensive game. He brings creativity and playmaking that TK isn't even close to, and he can also shoot the puck and play gritty in the corners and around the net.

I'm not understanding why he isn't penned into lineups, aside from the fact he's young and inexperienced, but fact is, the guy will be young and inexperienced next year, and the years following if we do not give him time now. This is a perfect situation for the guy, IMO. He's behind a deep lineup where he can play very sheltered mins and get matchups. I think he's good enough where if we start throwing him out there against other team's 4th lines...he can do some damage. TK won't. He needs to play with someone to get him the puck, and he won't find that on the 4th line. Actually putting Beau WITH TK would be a good idea. Beau and set TK up for shots.

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04-30-2013, 03:50 PM
  #82
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
There's one saving grace with TK, and that saving grace is a big "if." TK can hit hot streaks, and when he does, he racks up the goals. The guy is due.

Yeah, I'm just trying to be optimistic with him at this point since he won't be scratched.
This thread was about TK vs Glass, but we all know deep down inside BB will sit because of his age.

It's really down to TK or Glass I would imagine. JJ won't sit. Adams won't sit.

So ya, I'm hoping for TK over Glass, because as I touched on earlier, he at least has the capability of catching on fire or even potting a big goal or two. Nothing about Glass' last 24 playoff games or his time here suggests he's even capable of contributing a single point.

TK is a Jekyll and Hyde, Glass is what he is... There is simply no upside there.

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04-30-2013, 03:58 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
This thread was about TK vs Glass, but we all know deep down inside BB will sit because of his age.

It's really down to TK or Glass I would imagine. JJ won't sit. Adams won't sit.

So ya, I'm hoping for TK over Glass, because as I touched on earlier, he at least has the capability of catching on fire or even potting a big goal or two. Nothing about Glass' last 24 playoff games or his time here suggests he's even capable of contributing a single point.

TK is a Jekyll and Hyde, Glass is what he is... There is simply no upside there.
To say that the PK was at say, 15th in the League, you could make a half assed argument about keeping a PK'er like Glass in the lineup.

But with a statistically bad PK, there's literally no reason, not even a shot in the dark one, to keep him in the lineup. I curse DB for continually keeping him in the lineup, but I curse pro scouting even more for thinking that Glass had any redeeming qualities, and Shero for falling for it.

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04-30-2013, 04:10 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
This thread was about TK vs Glass, but we all know deep down inside BB will sit because of his age.

It's really down to TK or Glass I would imagine. JJ won't sit. Adams won't sit.

So ya, I'm hoping for TK over Glass, because as I touched on earlier, he at least has the capability of catching on fire or even potting a big goal or two. Nothing about Glass' last 24 playoff games or his time here suggests he's even capable of contributing a single point.

TK is a Jekyll and Hyde, Glass is what he is... There is simply no upside there.
Glass is always Hyde. At least TK has another side to him

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04-30-2013, 04:16 PM
  #85
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At this stage of his career I don't mind seeing BB sit because what he's going to gain from a playoff run could end up being great. At the same time I think he can play and not hurt the team even though I do think that a player that's used to getting top 6 mins in the minors and a pretty good role down the stretch could "fall asleep" while playing 6 mins a game.

TK is what he is. If he can provide smart play and balls to the wall pace... I'm happy. I don't expect 4th liners to score. I think he can handle 4th line mins better and play his buzzing style after PPs and PKs.

I actually don't hate Glass as much as other people. He's a good 4th liner maybe 3rd liner on another team but he's in over his head on the PK.

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04-30-2013, 05:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
At this stage of his career I don't mind seeing BB sit because what he's going to gain from a playoff run could end up being great. At the same time I think he can play and not hurt the team even though I do think that a player that's used to getting top 6 mins in the minors and a pretty good role down the stretch could "fall asleep" while playing 6 mins a game.

TK is what he is. If he can provide smart play and balls to the wall pace... I'm happy. I don't expect 4th liners to score. I think he can handle 4th line mins better and play his buzzing style after PPs and PKs.

I actually don't hate Glass as much as other people. He's a good 4th liner maybe 3rd liner on another team but he's in over his head on the PK.
the obvious solution to this is to play him more than 6 minutes a game.

And no, Glass is not a good 4th liner. At best, he's a capable NHL body. And there's not a single team in the league that he'd be a 3rd liner on. Not one. If we had a 5th line, he shouldn't be on it.

Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Morrow - Sutter - Cooke
Bennett - Jokinen - Adams
Jeffrey - Vitale - Kennedy
Glass

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04-30-2013, 05:50 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If we had a 5th line, he shouldn't be on it.

Dupuis - Crosby - Iginla
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Morrow - Sutter - Cooke
Bennett - Jokinen - Adams
Jeffrey - Vitale - Kennedy
Glass
That's sad. What's more sad is, it's true...

He truly is the 16th best forward on the team...and there MAY be a few in WBS that would push him farther down the list...

Steve

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
It's far from an exaggeration. This is based on THIS season. And for THIS season, there is enough of a sample size to say BB is the second best defensive winger on this team.

Dupuis is probably the best defensive winger on this team. After him, please tell me another winger that has been as responsible with the puck, as consistent with his assignments, has the same instincts for finding loose pucks, and takes the proper BC angles, than BB?

Not Neal. He has struggled in his own end all season and while he is a BC force when he is on his game, he has never been special playing behind his blueline.

Not Kunitz. His play in his own end is usually above avg, but he has had an up and down season, especially taking care of the puck.

Not Cooke. He is the closest guy after Dupuis, but he doesn't have BB instincts for finding loose pucks when things break down.

Not TK. I'm not even going here.

Not Iggy. He is a willing BC, but is just avg in his own end.

Not Morrow. He is positionally sound, but struggles covering his zone when the puck is moved up high. He also struggles at times when guys kick out from dead stops... Several times he has fallen straight down trying to defend it.

Glass... Please.

If you think any of the wingers above, THIS season, have played more consistent in their own end and been as responsible with the puck than BB, cool. I disagree.
Ah, I actually missed your distinction that it had to be wingers. That makes it more reasonable for sure, but I would still say it is wrong putting him ahead of Cooke or Adams on that score. Beau can get it out with more flair and purpose, but we lean on those other two guys a ton in high pressure situations.

Again, moot in a sense as there's no doubt Beau should be playing.

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04-30-2013, 11:08 PM
  #89
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Ah, I actually missed your distinction that it had to be wingers. That makes it more reasonable for sure, but I would still say it is wrong putting him ahead of Cooke or Adams on that score. Beau can get it out with more flair and purpose, but we lean on those other two guys a ton in high pressure situations.

Again, moot in a sense as there's no doubt Beau should be playing.
Well I consider Adams a pivot, which is why I didn't mention him, even though I feel his defensive game is vastly overrated.

Cooke I said I could see an argument there...

Anyway, moot point because even if we agree, BB will still be watching from the press box because Glass and TK are vets.

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05-01-2013, 12:12 AM
  #90
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I think if we're up 3-0 in the series, put Beau in the 4th game. Or whatever, if the Pens have 1 game left to close things out, why not let the kid play 10 mins in that game?

TK has experience, you want to go with that, but you also want to play the guys that are performing well. TK does his 2-way game well, no one knows how Beau will play in the playoffs, not unless Bylsma tries him in a game.

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05-01-2013, 12:25 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
This thread was about TK vs Glass, but we all know deep down inside BB will sit because of his age.

It's really down to TK or Glass I would imagine. JJ won't sit. Adams won't sit.

So ya, I'm hoping for TK over Glass, because as I touched on earlier, he at least has the capability of catching on fire or even potting a big goal or two. Nothing about Glass' last 24 playoff games or his time here suggests he's even capable of contributing a single point.

TK is a Jekyll and Hyde, Glass is what he is... There is simply no upside there.
This is exactly how I view it. TK has the potential to score clutch goals for the Pens, while Glass is basically a waste of puck possession in the offensive zone.

It's kind of like two baseball players who bat .200 for the season, where one has 20 homer power and the other can't hit a homerun even if the moved the outfield walls in 200 feet. Both likely are easy outs the majority of the time, but at least one of them can hit a fluke homerun once in a while.

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05-01-2013, 10:18 AM
  #92
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I still don't see why DJ is the last man on the depth chart. Will the unscratchable Glass ever get hurt?

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05-01-2013, 11:11 AM
  #93
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This is exactly how I view it. TK has the potential to score clutch goals for the Pens, while Glass is basically a waste of puck possession in the offensive zone.

It's kind of like two baseball players who bat .200 for the season, where one has 20 homer power and the other can't hit a homerun even if the moved the outfield walls in 200 feet. Both likely are easy outs the majority of the time, but at least one of them can hit a fluke homerun once in a while.


.200.... the pirates would loooove to have those guys.

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05-01-2013, 12:23 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I think if we're up 3-0 in the series, put Beau in the 4th game. Or whatever, if the Pens have 1 game left to close things out, why not let the kid play 10 mins in that game?

TK has experience, you want to go with that, but you also want to play the guys that are performing well. TK does his 2-way game well, no one knows how Beau will play in the playoffs, not unless Bylsma tries him in a game.
Seems like you might have a chance for a Beauner before that.

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05-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #95
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I want Beau to play his game all night, and put up points. Be a marked + and contribute like we know he can.

In other words, when Crosby comes back, I want DB to have such a hard time sitting BB that he scratches Glass instead. A fairy tale, I know, but a guy can dream.

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05-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #96
wheelz87
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Hope BB scores the GWG in triple OT tonight. I don't give a damn about freakin experience. YOU GOTTA PLAY SOMETIME in your career. Oh, and BB is ten times better than TK already. Better to play him now when theres no pressure on him and is on the 4th line. Or maybe he can make his debut next year on the 2nd? Whatev. Do it Beau.

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05-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #97
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Hope BB scores the GWG in triple OT tonight. I don't give a damn about freakin experience. YOU GOTTA PLAY SOMETIME in your career. Oh, and BB is ten times better than TK already. Better to play him now when theres no pressure on him and is on the 4th line. Or maybe he can make his debut next year on the 2nd? Whatev. Do it Beau.
Well based on current lines, it's purely a question of Glass, Adams or Beau remaining in the lineup when Crosby comes back. Barring further injuries or someone else really ******** the bed out of the blue, I don't see TK sniffing this lineup at that point.

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05-01-2013, 01:33 PM
  #98
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I don't get why we have an issue playing 1 rookie on this team in the playoffs.

When we won the cup in 90-91, we had Jagr as a rookie. Anyone remember that goal he scored against Chicago in the finals?

In 91-92, we had McEachern as a rookie. He played 19 games in the playoffs that year and had 9 points.

In 08-09, we had Letang with 1 year of experience playing defense. Even though he wasn't a rookie, his position at age 21 or 22 is a critical one.

I don't get why some people get their panties ruffled about Bennett playing. The Blackhawks had no problem playing Saad last night for 21 minutes.

As others have said, you have to play sometime. Beau has showed a ton of composure. I'm sure he can handle 10 minutes of 4th line duty and more if someone gets injured in a game.

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05-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #99
DoktorZaius
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As others have said, you have to play sometime. Beau has showed a ton of composure. I'm sure he can handle 10 minutes of 4th line duty and more if someone gets injured in a game.
Part of the reason why I like Beau in the lineup, regardless of where he is, is that you can slot him up and down lines depending on the situation. Is Dupers tired from a recent PK? Throw Bennett w/ Jokinen (or Crosby) and Iggy. Boom, easy.

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05-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by DoktorZaius View Post
Well based on current lines, it's purely a question of Glass, Adams or Beau remaining in the lineup when Crosby comes back. Barring further injuries or someone else really ******** the bed out of the blue, I don't see TK sniffing this lineup at that point.
Yea I don't expect to see Beau much this post-season unfortunately.. but really hope he is in tonight. Adams is never going to sit, and rightfully so. I just don't get what Glass brings over Beau though. Beau should be the 12th forward on the team when everyone is healthy. Glass is tough? We just added toughness out the *** at the deadline! It's not like Glass is a punisher by any means. Infuse some skill into the lineup DB! When Sid comes back, we could be looking at Beau and Juice on the 4th line? Thats unreal depth, if we choose that route.

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