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KHL Expansion part II

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04-30-2013, 06:42 AM
  #51
pakovits
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Originally Posted by ebis View Post


I'm not sure how to feel. I want more Slovak clubs in KHL, but Extraliga was already struggling for survival after Slovan left and if the current champion left too along with arguably the second best team of this season (Piestany want to join EBEL for 2014/2015), I don't know what could happen.
the best solution for slovak clubs is to integrate into czech league system.

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04-30-2013, 06:44 AM
  #52
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the best solution for slovak clubs is to integrate into czech league system.
Czechs refused it.

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04-30-2013, 07:09 AM
  #53
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well, then you're screwed

no, seriously, maybe they can be convinced to change their mind. it is somewhat short-sighted and selfish on their part not to help out their neighbor, especially as it can benefit them as well.

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04-30-2013, 04:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by supermasif View Post
Which makes me, and others who want strong domestic leagues, wish for the failure of KHL... hopefully the KHL experiment has fizzled out in ten years or so. NHL will still remain strong, and will be the place where aspiring young swedes want to play hockey.
Keep wishing. In 10 years we are more likely to have a Swedish team in the KHL then for your wishes to come true.

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04-30-2013, 05:18 PM
  #55
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Keep wishing. In 10 years we are more likely to have a Swedish team in the KHL then for your wishes to come true.
That's about as likely as having a swedish NHL team (aside from the Red Wings ).

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04-30-2013, 05:42 PM
  #56
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To be on topic, I can not see swedish club in KHL NOW. We will see in future. I give more chances to Finns. Btw, KHL does not need swedish club but swedish players and it will happen for sure as VladNYC said.


Last edited by stv11: 05-01-2013 at 04:36 AM.
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04-30-2013, 06:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by supermasif View Post
Which makes me, and others who want strong domestic leagues, wish for the failure of KHL... hopefully the KHL experiment has fizzled out in ten years or so. NHL will still remain strong, and will be the place where aspiring young swedes want to play hockey.
I don't hope the KHL will fail. However I see the KHL more as an eastern european league that won't be successfull in the big existing hockey-regions (except for Russia of course). I really want to keep the strong domestic leagues (Elitserien, SM-Liiga, NLA) like most people that are from the countries that these leagues are in. The teams in these leagues wouldn't join the KHL because it wouldn't benefit them in any way.

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04-30-2013, 06:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
I don't hope the KHL will fail. However I see the KHL more as an eastern european league that won't be successfull in the big existing hockey-regions (except for Russia of course). I really want to keep the strong domestic leagues (Elitserien, SM-Liiga, NLA) like most people that are from the countries that these leagues are in. The teams in these leagues wouldn't join the KHL because it wouldn't benefit them in any way.
Same here. I'd rather they stick to Russian teams and keep those foreign player limits.

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04-30-2013, 08:40 PM
  #59
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I don't wish for the failure of anything, although I do support the KHL in any region that will facilitate growth and improvement of hockey. As has thus far has already been demonstrated. I am true to the belief that to have KHL participation does not mean a weaker domestic league. More demand for professional players only means more development and success of younger players. I see it as a temporary drain of talent that replenishes over time and only becomes better in the end. For example there have been a constant amount of North American mostly AHL players coming to Europe and now with Zagreb it's like pretty much a whole AHL team drained from NA. I could complain about how the league will be drained or I could take a different perspective. There has been increased room for OHL, USHL, NCAA, and ECHL players. They will get trained and eventually come up to par. As more AHLers go to Europe those aforementioned leagues will be more in demand and will improve!

I think having a KHL team in a country with a strong domestic league has a less negative effect than non hockey countries. For a country like Latvia or Kazakhstan to have a team, the whole country has to be scouted in order to assemble a team, whereas expanding a team to Switzerland for example would mean one or two players from the NLA teams and some AHLers. The gaps would be filled by the NLB and the change to the domestic league would be unnoticeable in 2-4 years max. I think the Czech Republic is a perfect example of that, and can be directly compared to Sweden for example. Obviously I am not advocating SC Bern or Rogle to ditch their leagues(although I am quite shocked to find out how disposable top Swedish teams are to the Allsvenskan, never mind the KHL).

Further I think artificial rules such as player limits and other restrictions imposed by federations are nonsense. And also that the IIHF is too buerochratic and useless for developed hockey nations and any strong leagues should quit their membership in favour of a friendly partnership. I believe in an open hockey ecosystem, even if it isn't traditional. But this is slowly getting off topic so il end it there..

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05-01-2013, 01:08 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
I don't wish for the failure of anything, although I do support the KHL in any region that will facilitate growth and improvement of hockey. As has thus far has already been demonstrated. I am true to the belief that to have KHL participation does not mean a weaker domestic league. More demand for professional players only means more development and success of younger players. I see it as a temporary drain of talent that replenishes over time and only becomes better in the end. For example there have been a constant amount of North American mostly AHL players coming to Europe and now with Zagreb it's like pretty much a whole AHL team drained from NA. I could complain about how the league will be drained or I could take a different perspective. There has been increased room for OHL, USHL, NCAA, and ECHL players. They will get trained and eventually come up to par. As more AHLers go to Europe those aforementioned leagues will be more in demand and will improve!

I think having a KHL team in a country with a strong domestic league has a less negative effect than non hockey countries. For a country like Latvia or Kazakhstan to have a team, the whole country has to be scouted in order to assemble a team, whereas expanding a team to Switzerland for example would mean one or two players from the NLA teams and some AHLers. The gaps would be filled by the NLB and the change to the domestic league would be unnoticeable in 2-4 years max. I think the Czech Republic is a perfect example of that, and can be directly compared to Sweden for example. Obviously I am not advocating SC Bern or Rogle to ditch their leagues(although I am quite shocked to find out how disposable top Swedish teams are to the Allsvenskan, never mind the KHL).

Further I think artificial rules such as player limits and other restrictions imposed by federations are nonsense. And also that the IIHF is too buerochratic and useless for developed hockey nations and any strong leagues should quit their membership in favour of a friendly partnership. I believe in an open hockey ecosystem, even if it isn't traditional. But this is slowly getting off topic so il end it there..
Couldn't agree more! Some times you have to prune the bush for more roses to grow.

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05-01-2013, 01:09 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Same here. I'd rather they stick to Russian teams and keep those foreign player limits.
Foreign player limits will be gone soon after Sochi.

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05-01-2013, 02:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Same here. I'd rather they stick to Russian teams and keep those foreign player limits.
Why? The only way for countries such as Latvia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and even Slovakia to have this high caliber hockey clubs is in the KHL. Without the KHL the level of hockey in these countries would be even lower.

Croatia is a different matter. It is not really a hockey country and it will have to build a team almost entirely on imports. We will see how the KHL will change the situation in a long run.

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Old
05-01-2013, 03:13 AM
  #63
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Dude, 5 years ago here in Zagreb, I was watching NHL games 60 nights a year, but live games?
It was like watching 6 year olds play football.

And then came the EBEL League and now the KHL.
I get to see Radulov live?

******* yeah. I want the KHL nothing but the best.
May it live long and expand.

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Old
05-01-2013, 03:47 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Dude, 5 years ago here in Zagreb, I was watching NHL games 60 nights a year, but live games?
It was like watching 6 year olds play football.

And then came the EBEL League and now the KHL.
I get to see Radulov live?

******* yeah. I want the KHL nothing but the best.
May it live long and expand.
Pretty much this.

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Old
05-01-2013, 03:51 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
I think having a KHL team in a country with a strong domestic league has a less negative effect than non hockey countries. For a country like Latvia or Kazakhstan to have a team, the whole country has to be scouted in order to assemble a team, whereas expanding a team to Switzerland for example would mean one or two players from the NLA teams and some AHLers. The gaps would be filled by the NLB and the change to the domestic league would be unnoticeable in 2-4 years max. I think the Czech Republic is a perfect example of that, and can be directly compared to Sweden for example. Obviously I am not advocating SC Bern or Rogle to ditch their leagues(although I am quite shocked to find out how disposable top Swedish teams are to the Allsvenskan, never mind the KHL).
I agree that if only one team of these leagues would join the KHL the damage would be minimal to the league. But no team would join because they would not benefit from it.

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05-01-2013, 04:06 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
I agree that if only one team of these leagues would join the KHL the damage would be minimal to the league. But no team would join because they would not benefit from it.
I have always been curious why are people so sure.

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05-01-2013, 04:11 AM
  #67
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I have always been curious why are people so sure.
What would improve for a NLA team in the KHL?
Level of play. Maybe
But that's not worth losing fans.

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05-01-2013, 04:28 AM
  #68
supermasif
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Dude, 5 years ago here in Zagreb, I was watching NHL games 60 nights a year, but live games?
It was like watching 6 year olds play football.

And then came the EBEL League and now the KHL.
I get to see Radulov live?

******* yeah. I want the KHL nothing but the best.
May it live long and expand.

That's good and true for small hockey nations like Croatia. Sweden has nothing to win from the KHL expanding. I'm all for a hockey champions league though.

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05-01-2013, 05:03 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
What would improve for a NLA team in the KHL?
Level of play. Maybe
But that's not worth losing fans.
You`d get to be part of something bigger than your local fans/rivalries,in alot bigger organization.

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05-01-2013, 05:31 AM
  #70
SCBdude
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You`d get to be part of something bigger than your local fans/rivalries,in alot bigger organization.
But the team would make less money (or lose more) because of the loss of fans they would definitely suffer caused by higher ticket prices (if you have to pay traveling through Russia, Slovakia etc. they won't be able to sell as many season tickets when prices go up). Also you would lose the traditional rivalries. Those are the games we all here want to see, the games we wait for all season. The fans don't want to see their teams play some Russian team that most of the people have never heard of (we have the Spengler Cup to see those teams) they want those rivalry games between these teams that are located so close to each other (Biel-Bern, Zurich-Kloten) with the great atmosphere created by the fans of both teams. That's something nobody wants to lose

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05-01-2013, 06:40 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
But the team would make less money (or lose more) because of the loss of fans they would definitely suffer caused by higher ticket prices (if you have to pay traveling through Russia, Slovakia etc. they won't be able to sell as many season tickets when prices go up). Also you would lose the traditional rivalries. Those are the games we all here want to see, the games we wait for all season. The fans don't want to see their teams play some Russian team that most of the people have never heard of (we have the Spengler Cup to see those teams) they want those rivalry games between these teams that are located so close to each other (Biel-Bern, Zurich-Kloten) with the great atmosphere created by the fans of both teams. That's something nobody wants to lose
that is traditional point of view and it is normal. I want to remind you that fans of enshlish soccer clubs had the same opinion when (today´s) UEFA Champions League was created. Everything can be changed, opinion of fans as well.

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05-01-2013, 06:50 AM
  #72
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that is traditional point of view and it is normal. I want to remind you that fans of enshlish soccer clubs had the same opinion when (today´s) UEFA Champions League was created. Everything can be changed, opinion of fans as well.
I wouldn't mind a Champions League type of competition in Europe. But that's not the same thing as playing those same teams 2-3 times a week. The teams still played in the Premier League

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05-01-2013, 07:05 AM
  #73
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I wouldn't mind a Champions League type of competition in Europe. But that's not the same thing as playing those same teams 2-3 times a week. The teams still played in the Premier League
that was NOT my point. Any problem for Europe to establish CL? Why there is none? Money? Money? or Money? Just curious, how many NLA teams have budget over 10 mil euro and how many above 15 mil euro and how many above 25 mil euro per season?

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05-01-2013, 07:50 AM
  #74
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I don't see any logical reason for Swe teams joining the KHL, same for Swiss and Finns really. They got their own leagues, which are basically NHL feeders and they are just fine with it.

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05-01-2013, 07:56 AM
  #75
SCBdude
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that was NOT my point. Any problem for Europe to establish CL? Why there is none? Money? Money? or Money? Just curious, how many NLA teams have budget over 10 mil euro and how many above 15 mil euro and how many above 25 mil euro per season?
I think it failed because there was not enough interest from the fans. Money was also an issue because after the first tournament everybody realised that the fans didn't care and so they couldn't find enough sponsors.

A lot of teams have a similarly high budget. These are: Zurich, Lugano, Kloten (owned by Billionaires), Fribourg (gets all of its money from the Banque Cantonale Fribourgois) and Bern (actually makes all of the money they spend themselves). These teams have a budget of about 10-13 mil euros. No NLA team gets even close to 25 mil euros.

Only one team officially announced their budget (for 12/13 season). Biel officially had a budget of 9 Mil CHF (7.35 mil €). They barely made the playoffs with that, although two teams with higher budgets (Kloten&Rapperswil) didn't make it. Biel had one of the lowest budgets. All the other teams either a slightly lower budget (Ambri, Langnau) or their budget was somewhere between Biel and Lugano/Zurich

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