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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 5/9) *Part III*

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04-30-2013, 09:47 PM
  #876
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Wow....can someone say, CLUTCH???

GAME 7, of the conference finals, and the kid scores the only 2 goals of the game so far.

Pushes him to 3rd in points, and 3rd in goals in the playoffs.


Get the hat trick..Messier...

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04-30-2013, 10:33 PM
  #877
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St. Croix is going to the finals!

Oil Kings win 2-0 on his goals.

First star was..well i'll let you figure it out.

edit - wasn't Croix fail on my part. Goalie was.


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04-30-2013, 10:33 PM
  #878
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Oil Kings are moving on. MSC with the only 2 goals in game 7.

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04-30-2013, 10:38 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
St. Croix is going to the finals!

Oil Kings win 2-0 on his goals.

First star was..well i'll let you figure it out.
Got exciting toward the end, that kid Broissoit is a good goalie.

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05-01-2013, 12:42 AM
  #880
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MSC playing big time hockey this Spring. He's a real prospect and all those who gave up on him should hold off before passing judgment. He may yet become a top-6 NHL center.

I'm always more impressed with what a person does in the playoffs than the regular season because 1) there are no terrible teams to beat up on; 2) the opposition actually plays defense and hits hard.

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05-01-2013, 06:23 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
MSC playing big time hockey this Spring. He's a real prospect and all those who gave up on him should hold off before passing judgment. He may yet become a top-6 NHL center.

I'm always more impressed with what a person does in the playoffs than the regular season because 1) there are no terrible teams to beat up on; 2) the opposition actually plays defense and hits hard.
Curious to know--who gave up on him? I'm been among his most outspoken critics, but I've hardly given up on him.

Also, how did you feel about his first two playoff performances? Were you impressed with them?

St. Croix has undeniable skill. There are still legitimate questions about how his game will translate to the pros. A terrific playoff performance at age 20 in junior hockey does nothing to change my opinion of him as a prospect. Have I written him off? Absolutely not. I'm hopeful but not optimistic about his chances.

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05-01-2013, 06:38 AM
  #882
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The big question with MSC is how will he handle the physicality, smarter/faster players at the next level. From limited showings at Traverse City and at Prospect Camp Scrimmages he was very quiet. But to be fair that was a very long time ago in the Fall of 2011 and last July respectively.

It all starts for him at Prospect Camp in about eight weeks and then Traverse City in early September where him, Fast, Lindberg and also Nicholls will be called upon to provide the offense.

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05-01-2013, 06:55 AM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
MSC playing big time hockey this Spring. He's a real prospect and all those who gave up on him ......
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post


I know many people here don't like St Croix.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Curious to know--who gave up on him? I'm been among his most outspoken critics, but I've hardly given up on him.

Also, how did you feel about his first two playoff performances? Were you impressed with them?

St. Croix has undeniable skill. There are still legitimate questions about how his game will translate to the pros. A terrific playoff performance at age 20 in junior hockey does nothing to change my opinion of him as a prospect. Have I written him off? Absolutely not. I'm hopeful but not optimistic about his chances.
2k2, I was gonna post the same, thanks for answering these better than I would have, you are spot on.

MSC has had two great seasons back to back, not like this is new. And he's in his 4th year as an overager, I kind of expect him to put up points and lead that team. We talked him up alot around here pre 2011 draft, the fact that he went in round 4 has to make you wonder why he lasted that long. I still think it was a very good pick.

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05-01-2013, 07:11 AM
  #884
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Yeah, he was a great pick. It's the fourth round--players like MSC are exactly who I like to see the team pick. Guys with terrific upside. If he pans out, it's an absolute steal. And if not, well, he's just like 99% of other players drafted in the fourth round.

I'm glad he's in our system. I just think we need to keep his performance in proper context and remain realistic about his chances. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the kid works out for us, but far from shocked. Let's just wait and see.

I always advocate for tempered enthusiasm with prospects. Even guys that I absolutely love, and am SURE will make it. I was touting Carl Hagelin beginning in his freshman season. Watching him play, you could just see that he had "it" and would make it. And he kept getting better and better. Even after his senior season, I was still only going as far as to say, "If things break right for him he'll be a good third liner, maybe even a second line player." You just can never know. The jump from the AHL to the NHL is far greater than a lot of people seem to realize. And the jump from juniors and college to the pros is staggering. So much can happen, which is why it's best to not get too high on a particular player.

EDIT: And at the same time, you can't get too low on a guy. Not from stat surfing, anyway. You really need to watch players closely to see how they'll perform at higher levels. Even then it can be tough. You end up with guys like McDonagh, that are very good in college, decent in the AHL, and then impact players from the get-go at the NHL level. I don't write anyone off (within reason) and don't over-hype anyone. You just gotta sit back and see how guys develop, and how they respond to being tested at higher levels.


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05-01-2013, 07:14 AM
  #885
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Yeah, he was a great pick. It's the fourth round--players like MSC are exactly who I like to see the team pick. Guys with terrific upside. If he pans out, it's an absolute steal. And if not, well, he's just like 99% of other players drafted in the fourth round.

I'm glad he's in our system. I just think we need to keep his performance in proper context and remain realistic about his chances. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the kid works out for us, but far from shocked. Let's just wait and see.
This has the potential to be another Grachev situation, where people get all starry-eyed over junior numbers and then feel let down when the player fails to become a strong professional player.

To be clear: I am not saying that MSC will bust, only that smart money is on him not becoming a big time NHL scorer.

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05-01-2013, 07:28 AM
  #886
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That 4th round has some interesting names now that we are mentioning it - Jon Gaudreau, Mike Mersch, Reid Boucher, Mike Reily, JG Pageau, Joe Labate, Robbie Russo, Magnus Nygren, Toby Rieder, Marek Tvrdon, Marcel Noebels - all these players have had good years post draft and their drafted teams fans are just as excited as we are about MSC.

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05-01-2013, 07:39 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Curious to know--who gave up on him? I'm been among his most outspoken critics, but I've hardly given up on him.

Also, how did you feel about his first two playoff performances? Were you impressed with them?

St. Croix has undeniable skill. There are still legitimate questions about how his game will translate to the pros. A terrific playoff performance at age 20 in junior hockey does nothing to change my opinion of him as a prospect. Have I written him off? Absolutely not. I'm hopeful but not optimistic about his chances.
Exactly how I feel!

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05-01-2013, 08:24 AM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
MSC playing big time hockey this Spring. He's a real prospect and all those who gave up on him should hold off before passing judgment. He may yet become a top-6 NHL center.

I'm always more impressed with what a person does in the playoffs than the regular season because 1) there are no terrible teams to beat up on; 2) the opposition actually plays defense and hits hard.
Why is being critical of someone and having questions about his transition to the NHL game mean he has been given up on? Ridiculous, everyone on this board wants to see MSC succeed at the next level. Just because we question that does not mean anyone has given up on him. He's still in juniors for **** sake!

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05-01-2013, 08:34 AM
  #889
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Look I'm not saying he will bust. But that's exactly what most of you are saying.

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05-01-2013, 08:36 AM
  #890
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Those who hold a more "reserved" outlook re. MSC's prospects as a future NHLer put greater weight to the fact that he slipped all the way to 4th round. I think if he was picked higher (say 2nd round) - his results and progress since the Rangers drafted him would be viewed in a more positive light. Because from all available reports MSC has been progressing exactly as it's been hoped / expected of him.

Edit: for comparison reference I used Thomas and how he was viewed as untouchable after his excellent 1st season after being drafted and where he slipped after he struggled in the following year (no longer untouchable but still a very solid prospect). On the other hand MSC actually build on in his second year producing with lesser talent around him, improving defensively and having more impact in the play-offs. However, he is viewed as a lesser prospect than CT after two junior seasons (for both) since being drafted.


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05-01-2013, 08:50 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
2k2, I was gonna post the same, thanks for answering these better than I would have, you are spot on.

MSC has had two great seasons back to back, not like this is new. And he's in his 4th year as an overager, I kind of expect him to put up points and lead that team. We talked him up alot around here pre 2011 draft, the fact that he went in round 4 has to make you wonder why he lasted that long. I still think it was a very good pick.
Agreed on all except that he's not an overager. This was his age 19 season, he just turned 20.

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05-01-2013, 09:03 AM
  #892
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Agreed on all except that he's not an overager. This was his age 19 season, he just turned 20.
True, I should have just said this was his 4th full season in the dub.

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05-01-2013, 09:07 AM
  #893
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Look I'm not saying he will bust. But that's exactly what most of you are saying.
That's what you THINK we're saying, but it's not.

Every prospect has some potential to "bust." There's a group here that believes his "bust potential" is relatively high, and a group that feels it's not. If I say that he has a high chance of failure, I'm not saying that he will fail. I know nuance is lost on some people...

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05-01-2013, 09:54 AM
  #894
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Next year will be a very interesting year for MSC. We will all get the opportunity to see him on regular basis in the A where he will get the opportunity to sway everyone's opinion one way or the other. It's great to hear he is playing so well again in the Dub playoffs where he should be dominating. Hope he makes us all believers.

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05-01-2013, 10:38 AM
  #895
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MSC is someone I'm high on. From his in game action I've seen on replays, he look solid all around. Like most young guys, he might not cut it at center and may have to move to wing especially on this team. Stepan, Lindberg, Brassard, Boyle, and even if we keep Richards are all C's and good/average on draws. Not sure how MSC does on them, but he will have to be at or over 50% to play that position. Luckily his talent level can make him a winger. He will have time to develop in the AHL as well. A luxury we have right now. Not like in the past. We have youth in the NHL that are doing well. There is no rush anymore. A couple years in the AHL will do him and our lower picks well in terms of an NHL future.

Remember, the captian of the team was a 4th round selection as well. He worked through the AHL too. Give him some time, it could turn out well.

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05-01-2013, 10:45 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Those who hold a more "reserved" outlook re. MSC's prospects as a future NHLer put greater weight to the fact that he slipped all the way to 4th round. I think if he was picked higher (say 2nd round) - his results and progress since the Rangers drafted him would be viewed in a more positive light. Because from all available reports MSC has been progressing exactly as it's been hoped / expected of him.

Edit: for comparison reference I used Thomas and how he was viewed as untouchable after his excellent 1st season after being drafted and where he slipped after he struggled in the following year (no longer untouchable but still a very solid prospect). On the other hand MSC actually build on in his second year producing with lesser talent around him, improving defensively and having more impact in the play-offs. However, he is viewed as a lesser prospect than CT after two junior seasons (for both) since being drafted.
Marc Savard was also a 4th round pick in 1995, Ryan Callahan was also a 4th round pick in 2004.... some players fall due to height and weight and not skill.. some teams may feel that the player is too weak physically to make the NHL... some teams still take chances with these type of players.... if St. Croix can get stronger i bet his is a 2ed liner, alot like Derick Brassard..

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05-01-2013, 10:45 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That's what you THINK we're saying, but it's not.

Every prospect has some potential to "bust." There's a group here that believes his "bust potential" is relatively high, and a group that feels it's not. If I say that he has a high chance of failure, I'm not saying that he will fail. I know nuance is lost on some people...
What is it about MSC that makes you believe that?
It's fine to have a disagreement on any prospect's potential. But why are some people down on him?

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05-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #898
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What is it about MSC that makes you believe that?
It's fine to have a disagreement on any prospect's potential. But why are some people down on him?
This goes back to last season when there was an ongoing thread on the main prospects board. There was one guy that stood out (oilburnsclean or something like that) defending MSC, while a bunch of people were really down on him. Here is what I remember:

small
slow
perimeter player

That's mainly what I took away from it.

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05-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #899
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This goes back to last season when there was an ongoing thread on the main prospects board. There was one guy that stood out (oilburnsclean or something like that) defending MSC, while a bunch of people were really down on him. Here is what I remember:

small
slow
perimeter player

That's mainly what I took away from it.
Yeah, haven't heard from newoilburnsclean in a while, or at least i think that was his name. He was very high on MSC...would be curious to get his thoughts a year later.

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05-01-2013, 12:16 PM
  #900
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This has the potential to be another Grachev situation, where people get all starry-eyed over junior numbers and then feel let down when the player fails to become a strong professional player.

To be clear: I am not saying that MSC will bust, only that smart money is on him not becoming a big time NHL scorer.
We need to stop bringing up Grachev as an example of someone who lit up juniors. Getting 80 points in the OHL is nothing. He was the ultimate in overhyping.

I remember everyone wanting him as a second or in some cases first round pick. One reason that so many were mad that we drafted Stepan is that we missed out on Grachev. When he was still available in the third, people chilled out about Stepan. Then people used anything they could to justify Grachev as a top prospect.

The OHL is not as good defensively as the WHL. I would say 100+ points is needed there to show offensively skill, give or take 10 points based on how good the linemates are.

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