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DeCock: Canes GM Rutherford should review own performance

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Old
05-01-2013, 08:18 AM
  #1
TheBigKahuna
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The Ugly Truth

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/...rd-should.html

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05-01-2013, 08:18 AM
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DeCock: Canes GM Rutherford should review own performance

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/04/...rd-should.html

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05-01-2013, 08:22 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Ouchie.

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05-01-2013, 08:25 AM
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https://twitter.com/corylav/status/329570700463575040

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05-01-2013, 08:37 AM
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impeach estaalo
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There should be no debate on whether Jim Rutherford is a horrible general manager. It is accepted fact. The above defense of JR seems to be "we have some good players". Of course we do, every team does. It's the fact that we ice about 10 fringe NHLers on a nightly basis that makes this team bad. How many teams would Corvo, Harrison, Sanguinetti, McBain, Bergeron, Bowman, Westgarth, LaRose, and Brent *not* be healthy scratches on? And that's just what we try to pass off as NHL talent; we get to see a lot more of this garbage called up when one of our very injury prone players who JR has tied up millions of dollars in is shockingly hurt.

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05-01-2013, 08:45 AM
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Joe McGrath
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It's articles like these that make me wonder why half of the board couldn't be a sports writer. Replace LaRose and Pitkanen in his "spend heavy" example with Ruutu and Gleason and the article is basically a concise version of about a third of the threads over the past 2-3 years.

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05-01-2013, 08:48 AM
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Blown Away
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DeCock makes a few decent points (Skinner's contract was one), but over all this is an unfair critique.

In hindsight letting Cole walk was not a bad decision. Whitney soured his relationship with JR when he refused used to waive his NTC in his last season as a Cane.

His panning of the Canes player development is a head scratcher. Apparently it is not OK to get players from the college ranks or direct from Juniors.

If you want to criticize JR, focus on the defense and the back up goal tending. The Canes rely too heavily on Cam Ward to play night in and night out and to bail out the defense.

DeCock has really become a negative Nancy lately. Except when he is fawning over Duke basketball.


Last edited by Blown Away: 05-01-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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05-01-2013, 08:52 AM
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TheBigKahuna
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^ Wrong.

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05-01-2013, 09:04 AM
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dogbazinho
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I somewhat agree. You can't say JR overspends then call him out for not overspending on Cole, Whitney etc. You can't play hardball if you aren't willing to let players walk. That said, those negotiations should happen before free agency so we can trade those players if they won't resign. Historically this team is not aggressive enough in free agency to let players walk with no return. NTCs and NMCs defeat the purpose of this approach and should never be granted.

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05-01-2013, 09:14 AM
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Boom Boom Anton
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Like every GM, Rutherford has made some good moves, some so-so moves, and some bad moves, but as a whole, the buck needs to stop with him. Playoffs only 1 time since the cup win is pretty dismal, especially with the lame prospect pool the team has and that has to fall on Rutherford (and Karmanos to some degree as I'm sure JR isn't operating in a vacuum).

That said, the team is a young team that has a lot of pieces in place to be a playoff team, even in the new division. Beefing up the defense and a healthy Ward is key.

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05-01-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown Away View Post
DeCock makes a few decent points (Skinner's contract was one), but over all this is an unfair critique.

In hindsight letting Cole walk was not a bad decision. Whitney soured his relationship with JR when he refused used to waive his NTC in his last season as a Cane.

His panning of the Canes player development is a head scratcher. Apparently it is not OK to get players from the college ranks or direct from Juniors.

If you want to criticize JR, focus on the defense and the back up goal tending. The Canes rely too heavily on Cam Ward to play night in and night out and to bail out the defense.

DeCock has really become a negative Nancy lately. Except when he is fawning over Duke basketball.
Not just that, but as dogbazinho points out, a logically inconsistent negative nancy. He bemoans that we'll never be competitive within our new division whilst conveniently forgetting that the teams that are good now will not *always* be good and that just about everybody in our division has gone through peaks and valleys of hockey relevance.

As for Rutherford, I'm on the fence. He's been our GM a long time now - 20 years, nearly. In those 19 years we have 5 playoff appearances. That's not confidence inspiring. More tellingly, at least to me with my background as a Pens fan, that's longer than Craig Patrick has as Pittsburgh's GM. Patrick was Pittsburgh's GM for 17 years and helped guide Pittsburgh to the playoffs 11 years out of that 17. A consecutive run of 4 missed appearances caused the ax to fall and for Lemieux and Burkle to bring in Ray Shero. I like Rutherford and feel he's done much for this franchise, but I'm increasingly thinking it's time for him to hang up his GM hat and concentrate on the team presidency. This off-season and this season are where the rubber meets the road for me. If he doesn't address our gaps, I think we'll be seeing Rutherford step down as GM.

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05-01-2013, 09:19 AM
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^ Wrong.
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05-01-2013, 09:36 AM
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JRs inability to develop bottom six players is just as much an indictment of him. If we are looking at things honestly, what NHL level player has been developed in the last 6 years? Charlotte and Albany have feed the roster almost nothing. And JRs completely lack of understanding in terms of building a group of 6 on the backend in undeniable.

Bottom line for me is that all the Canes current roster issues can be easily traced to JR. They are not money issues. PK is not keeping us from making the playoffs. If you want to argue that PK is keeping us from challenging for the cup every year, that is an argument that can be made. But he is providing more than enough money to JR to produce semi regular playoff appearances.

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05-01-2013, 09:50 AM
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Joe McGrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic
JRs inability to develop bottom six players is just as much an indictment of him. If we are looking at things honestly, what NHL level
player has been developed in the last 6 years?
Isn't Pat Dwyer the definition of a bottom 6 player, developed by the Canes? They developed LaRose too. Not to mention Nash and Bowman who are now borderline bottom 6 guys.

The defense is an undeniable trainwreck.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 05-01-2013 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Added quote box for clarity
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05-01-2013, 09:53 AM
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sheriff bart
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Playoffs only 1 time since the cup win is pretty dismal.
Especially when you take into consideration that half the league makes the playoffs every year. A well run team wouldn't miss as often as the Canes do.

My biggest issue is on defense. Until JR took Murphy last year, he has avoided taking a defenseman with a high pick because they "take too long to develop". He has said that he'd rather trade for them later or sign them as a free agent after they develop with another team. The problem is that top flight defensemen don't get traded and demand too much in free agency for JR to get. He said last summer that we were in the Suter sweepstakes. On July 1, he signed Corvo and said "we like our group". I hope he wasn't including me in the "we". I didn't like it then, and I sure as hell don't like it now.

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05-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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JR isn't on the ice or in the locker room 'developing players' - that burden falls to the coaching staffs at all levels (CAR and CHA). JR isn't out in the world Scouting players to draft or trade for. That falls to the Scouts. BUT he IS responsible for the selection of those coaches, scouts, etc. - that is where I would look. given the long history of mediocre drafting, development, and trading, if I was JR and wasn't going to step down, I'd take a hard look at the Scouting and Charlotte coaching staffs. Charlotte is having a good year, but could it be that we've simply built a great AHL team from players who will never be great NHL players - even on the 3rd or 4th lines? Is Jeff Daniels the best guy for Charlotte? Is Claude LaRose (for real) right as a pro scout for 24 years in the organization? (actually the Canes pages are inconsistent in terms of scouting staff - anyone know the -current- staff? Are they all new as one page suggests, or dinosaurs, as another one depicts?

Drafting - JR annoucnes the pick, and may decide, but he's deciding based on inputs form people. Those people, in 10+ years, have drafted the following REAL NHL-quality players (based on being with us now or being traded elsewhere): Ward, EStaal, ALadd, JJohnson, Mcbain, BrSutter, Skinner, JFaulk. In the same 10+ years, the Blackhawks have drafted TuRuutu, Craig Anderson, Keith, Seabrook, CCrawford, Byuflien (these last 3 in the SAME draft), Barker, Bolland, NHljalmarrson, Skille, Toews, Kane, Saad. One other comparative, in the Southeast, the Capitals: Odouya, Eminger, Semin, Ovechkin, Schultz, Green (these 3 in the same draft), Backstrom, Varlamov, Neuvirth, Perrault, Alzner, Carlson, Holtby, Johansson...

Seems to me we've insisted on the same assessments, drafting, scouting, development for too long. THAT is where JR needs to make change, if he's not going to do anything with himself.

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05-01-2013, 10:36 AM
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DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown Away View Post
DeCock makes a few decent points (Skinner's contract was one), but over all this is an unfair critique.

In hindsight letting Cole walk was not a bad decision. Whitney soured his relationship with JR when he refused used to waive his NTC in his last season as a Cane.

His panning of the Canes player development is a head scratcher. Apparently it is not OK to get players from the college ranks or direct from Juniors.

If you want to criticize JR, focus on the defense and the back up goal tending. The Canes rely too heavily on Cam Ward to play night in and night out and to bail out the defense.

DeCock has really become a negative Nancy lately. Except when he is fawning over Duke basketball.
Actually I would say this is one of the few areas that he's rather spot on. We'll see what the future brings but as of right now the guys that project heading forward for us that are home-grown (at least in terms of strictly playing pro for this org) it's basically a #3/4 center (Nash, who was drafted by Edmonton, but's only played pro here), a 4th line winger (Blanchard), a 3rd line winger (Bowman), and a #7 dman (Bellemore).

The failure of guys like Carson, Dalpe, and Boychuk to stick in the league by now is either a developmental failure or a drafting failure over the half-decade span from 04 to 08. And it's not like we've been knocking them out of the park before then either with the exception of a brilliant pick of Ward, who was considered a rather mid-tier goalie in 02. Have to go all the way back to 98 for a stellar draft before 2010, despite taking some picks that were considered to be likely home runs over that span (Boychuk, Dalpe, Richmond, Korhonen)... that says a LOT to me.

edit: even including LaRose and Dwyer there's still nothing beyond a few mediocre 3rd/4th line types that have been developed here. Nash is the one that has the ability to possibly become a solid 3rd line C so I'll give him some credit for that pick/acquisition.


Last edited by DaveG: 05-01-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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05-01-2013, 10:39 AM
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Leave JR alone. He is like your elderly grandpa who doesn't remember who you are and won't stop making racist statements, but he can't help it because alzheimer's has the best of him.



Give the man a break. I see nothing but confusion in his eyes.

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05-01-2013, 10:56 AM
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faulkingdynamic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
JRs inability to develop bottom six players is just as much an indictment of him. If we are looking at things honestly, what NHL level
player has been developed in the last 6 years?

Isn't Pat Dwyer the definition of a bottom 6 player, developed by the Canes? They developed LaRose too. Not to mention Nash and Bowman who are now borderline bottom 6 guys.

The defense is an undeniable trainwreck.
Dwyer is a decent example but Larose is before the timeperiod I'm talking about and honestly i'm not sure he is that effective in the bottom six role. Nash and Bowman are possiblilities but they are hardly established bottom 6ers who are consistently effective. And while they play the role for us, none of the guys you named other than maybe dwyer are even remotely hard to play against or frankly even possess the skills needed by effective bottom sixers. Just because they slot in on our bottom 6 doesnt make them proper effective bottom 6 guys from a league wide perspective.

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05-01-2013, 11:07 AM
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Joe McGrath
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There are three things that REALLY screwed this organization. Their names are Dalpe, Boychuk, and McBain. Are they JRs failings? Everyone and their mother thought Boychuk would at least be a second line winger and Dalpe projected that way as well. McBain is the big one because at worst most figured he'd be a solid top 4 puck mover abd PP contributir based on his college and AHL time plus the end of the year run he put up. You could blame JR for not having a back up plan, that's for surebut those three are high round draft picks that were considered smart choices at the time. When you swing and miss from the 3rd round on 99 times out of 100, you can't afford to miss on 1st and high 2nds.

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05-01-2013, 11:35 AM
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Whether or not the criticism is fair, it's good to see someone in the media call JR out. Hell, it's good to see the media call anyone in the organization out.

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05-01-2013, 11:44 AM
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Its hard to argue that our prospect development overall has been poor, despite recent improvement in effort. Overall the best prospects get thrown in the deep end and either sink or swim. He's right in that we haven't developed solid depth from prospects. To say Faulk and mcbain are minor leaguers we developed is as big a stretch of the truth as possible. Half a season doesn't count, and those two are the biggest successes we've had in a while.

This year helped I think, we used the kids a lot more than we ever had. I hope Blanchard is back on the fourth line, and that terry and bellemore get another shot.

So this year is the biggest rebuttal against the point I'm making, but it was out of desperation more than anything else. We'll see what comes of it. I hope not another bargain bin gritty vet collection.

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05-01-2013, 11:48 AM
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Ill add Luke is dead on in his assessment of the d. It's brutal. Overall we are the biggest bunch of wussies in the league and have been for years.

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05-01-2013, 11:49 AM
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I'd like this article better if it was written after last years season.

Going into Last Year:
We need a #1 dman (now have Justin Faulk)
We need an Elite Winger for Staal (now have Semin) (and Tlusty?)
We need a legit #2 Center (now have Jordan Staal)
We need a legit backup goalie (Dan Ellis)

The Problems we now see we need to fix:
#4,7,8,9,10 Dmen need to be better
#3 Goalie needs to be better
4 Bottom 6 Forwards who can contribute literally anything.

-----------

There is a reality that is quite easy to imagine, where Justin Peters doesn't play in 19 games, our D stays just a little bit healthy, and we easily make the playoffs.

I understand that contingencies are JR's responsibility, and I think they were poorly planned. But for most teams in the NHL, 'what happens if you lose both your goalies for extended periods of time, and at the same time are so beat up on defense, you have to call up a kid from Juniors?' the answer is 'we start losing a lot of games.'

As frustrating as the failure of depth was this last year, the core group going forward is all you could ask for.

Staal/Staal/Tlusty/Semin/Ruutu/Skinner/Faulk/Gleason/Ward

For those of us who remember what this team looked like when even a little healthy, when they were beating up on Pittsburgh, NJ, Ottawa, and the Isles, there's plenty of reason for real optimism.

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05-01-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
There are three things that REALLY screwed this organization. Their names are Dalpe, Boychuk, and McBain. Are they JRs failings? Everyone and their mother thought Boychuk would at least be a second line winger and Dalpe projected that way as well. McBain is the big one because at worst most figured he'd be a solid top 4 puck mover abd PP contributir based on his college and AHL time plus the end of the year run he put up. You could blame JR for not having a back up plan, that's for surebut those three are high round draft picks that were considered smart choices at the time. When you swing and miss from the 3rd round on 99 times out of 100, you can't afford to miss on 1st and high 2nds.
What's interesting to me is that the consensus was that JR picked Boychuk over Dalpe at 14, then Dalpe fell to the Canes at 45. So is it a success to get Dalpe at 45, or is it an indictment of JR's projection of talent that someone he considered at 14 fell to 45 and hasn't developed as hoped yet?

But as I look at the 2nd round of the 2008 draft, I don't see a lot of players significantly ahead of Dalpe. I see some potential that's been flashed at the NHL level, and I see 3-4 reliable NHLers right now but not enough to make me think it's a complete failure that pick #45 hasn't translated to the NHL yet.

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