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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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Old
05-01-2013, 10:47 AM
  #926
OriginJM
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All I know is that the 11th pick is usually around the sweet spot where great players can drop to for one reason or another, we'll get someone good

still pissed we won against ottawa but whatever

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05-01-2013, 11:15 AM
  #927
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I'd really like to see Ristolainen in the first round. I know he probably won't get to us but man, that would be ideal IMO.

In the second round I hope we get lucky and someone like Mirco Mueller or Shea Theodore drops. Or possibly just Joshua Morrissey if we don't get a defenseman with our first pick. If we take a defenseman with the first pick, I'd like to see Morgan Klimchuk, Adam Erne, or Michael McCarron.

In the later rounds, it's hard to tell where guys will go and but there are a few guys I'd like to take a look at.
Justin Bailey (C)- I assume he will go in the second round but If he doesn't I'd like to see him with a 3rd round pick.
Ryan Kujawinksi (C)- Big, thick, physical defensive center at 6'2 205. He looks like he could develop into a 3rd liner center. He's a heart and soul guy and has some good leadership qualities. If he's available in the 3rd round, he might be worth a look.
Ben Harpur (D)- Huge physical defenseman that will drop the gloves(though he doesnt seem to be a great fighter). Listed at 6'6 210. These tall defenseman take a while to play into their frame and he might be worth taking a shot at in the 3rd or 4th round if they get a pick.
Charlie Graham (G)- Backed up Malcom Subban but put up some pretty good numbers though he was on dominant Belleville team. He's a smaller goalie and no idea where he may go but maybe take a shot at him in the late rounds and see what happens with him.
Connor Crisp (C)- Big Overage center that can be plucked with maybe the last pick. I'm not even sure if he's expected to be drafted. he missed almost all of his draft year with an injury so he was basically an 18 year old rookie this year. You may remember him as the guy that played a game for the Erie Otters as an emergency goalie.

I dont know much about player rankings so dont bash me if I'm off by a round or two. Those are just guys I'd like to see.


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05-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I like Zadorov, but I'm still not sold on him offensively.
.40 pts per game and +33 in his first year in the OHL/North America...not too shabby. I see that pts number climbing as, from what I've watched and read, he's only just begun to tap into his offensive potential. He skates well and seems to be a beast on D. For a guy 6'6"-6'7" 230 lbs, that's quite a package.

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05-01-2013, 11:27 AM
  #929
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I am confused. You question Risto's offensive upside when he already has above average skills there, but don't question Zadorov's offensive upside since he hasn't really shown anything offensively and is being used in more of a shutdown role? I don't get it.

Also, Risto has good skating, skills, and size as well, plus he is a right-handed shot.
I'm guess I'm not seeing where Ristolainen has put up impressive offensive numbers. I know it's more of defensive oriented game in Finland, but even so, I'd like to see some more production there to show the potential is there. With that said, he does seem to have the raw skills (stick handling/shot/skating) to produce. Some question his defensive awareness...big minus player. Plus, I add a risk point for being a euro, where it isn't yet known how his game will translate to the North American game.

Don't get me wrong...I like him, but I am just leaning toward some of the other D men in the draft before him on my list.

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05-01-2013, 11:36 AM
  #930
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So instead of Forsberg and Ricci for lindros it would have been Forsberg and Jagr for lindros.....oy.
Ugh, that would have been awful in hindsight. Thank god we didn't pick Jagr.

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05-01-2013, 11:58 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
.40 pts per game and +33 in his first year in the OHL/North America...not too shabby. I see that pts number climbing as, from what I've watched and read, he's only just begun to tap into his offensive potential. He skates well and seems to be a beast on D. For a guy 6'6"-6'7" 230 lbs, that's quite a package.
When you draft Zadarov, you should be expecting Brayden Coburn and pray for Zdeno Chara. That said, the former is definitely far more likely than the later.

Zadarov - Coburn is actually a scary good comparison based on their draft year size, skating and offensive production. Coburn never took his offensive development to the next stage, but is easily a 2/3 defenseman on a competitive team.

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05-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #932
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I question Ristolainen's upside, particularly on the offensive end and prefer a more dynamic offensive player like Nurse or Pulock for the Flyers...and Zadorov's combination of immense size, good skating, raw skill and good attitude are hard to pass up. He's only just starting to figure things out and has decent production while being a force to be reckoned with on D. This dude could be the next Chara. Imagine him working with Prongs and Hatcher? I'd have to say, at this point, I'd probably take Zadorov if there, then Nurse and then Pulock, before I took Ristolainen. Morrissey is another interesting D man to me but it's too much of a reach at 11...

See I am the opposite. I prefer Risto out of everyone not named Jones. His numbers aren't eye popping, but you have to keep in mind he is facing much better competition as well.

The biggest problem with projecting defense at 18 is we have no idea what kind of zone starts, qual comp, and minutes they are facing. For all we know Nurse and Pulock are being given easy, offensive minutes. I'd rather have the defender excelling in tougher situations.

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05-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #933
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Kimmo wasn't putting up big numbers during his first two seasons in the SM-Liiga either.

Timonen - .06 ppg, .28 ppg
Ristolainen - .20 ppg, .29 ppg

I'm not implying he is Timonen, but I bet if Risto remains in the SM-Liiga for the next year or two you'll see his offensive numbers come along. It took Timo until year 4 before his offensive game developed.

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05-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #934
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If we get to pick #11 and by some act of Thor, Nurse and Nichushkin are both still on the board. Who do you take?

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05-01-2013, 01:17 PM
  #935
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Nurse.

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Old
05-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
I'm guess I'm not seeing where Ristolainen has put up impressive offensive numbers. I know it's more of defensive oriented game in Finland, but even so, I'd like to see some more production there to show the potential is there. With that said, he does seem to have the raw skills (stick handling/shot/skating) to produce. Some question his defensive awareness...big minus player. Plus, I add a risk point for being a euro, where it isn't yet known how his game will translate to the North American game.

Don't get me wrong...I like him, but I am just leaning toward some of the other D men in the draft before him on my list.
Ah, ok. I think I get where you are coming from now. Consensus is that Risto is the most NHL ready d-man behind Jones though. He is a two way d-man which is good in my book. I put Risto 3rd on the list of d-men I hope/wish the Flyers to get from the draft with Zadorov behind him.

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05-01-2013, 01:28 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
If we get to pick #11 and by some act of Thor, Nurse and Nichushkin are both still on the board. Who do you take?
I would hope the Flyers take Nurse, but would be happy with either player.

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05-01-2013, 01:29 PM
  #938
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So instead of Forsberg and Ricci for lindros it would have been Forsberg and Jagr for lindros.....oy.
Wow, I don't even want to think how that would have turned out if we did that. Hopefully, the Flyers would have kept one of them or better yet kept both and still got Lindros.

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05-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #939
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Zadorov seems to be a harder worker and a player with more intensity than Coburn. I think Coburn looks like a bum out there half the time, but when he actually plays hard then I could see the comparison. The talent level may be similar in their draft year but I think the attitude and drive to compete and get better will make Zadorov a better player than Coburn. I think if we give the kid a chance he'll end up being a beast and one of the better players in the draft.

In the second round if McCoshen, Carrier, Lodge, or someone initially projected for the 1st like Hagg or Bowey drops then I'm hoping for them.

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05-01-2013, 01:54 PM
  #940
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Zadorov seems to be a harder worker and a player with more intensity than Coburn. I think Coburn looks like a bum out there half the time, but when he actually plays hard then I could see the comparison. The talent level may be similar in their draft year but I think the attitude and drive to compete and get better will make Zadorov a better player than Coburn. I think if we give the kid a chance he'll end up being a beast and one of the better players in the draft.

In the second round if McCoshen, Carrier, Lodge, or someone initially projected for the 1st like Hagg or Bowey drops then I'm hoping for them.
No no....just like Carter when he was here, he skates so effortlessly like a gazelle that it seems like he's dawging it...

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05-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #941
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Speaking of carter. When I was watching the highlights on nbcsn last night, jones uttered something I've heard all too often in my life; "carter can't get the rebound". Almost as often as "carter takes a shot...aaaand the puck drifts back out to the neutral zone"

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05-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #942
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I sucks looking back on all the times we had mid round defenseman that we drafted and thought had serious potential to be #3-4 NHL defenders and it just seems none of them ever pan out.

Joonas Lehtivuori- He showed promise in SM-Liiga in his second season and the Timonen comparisons started. People thought there was top 4 upside and then he came to NA and showed even in the AHL that he couldn't defend and his offense was limited.

Denis Bodrov- He was a second rounder that was thought to be a solid defensive defenseman with second pairing upside. There was always a questions as to whether or not he would leave the KHL. He came for an abbreviated AHL stint and got turned so bad every game that he ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs.

Kevin Marshall- Another second rounder that looked like a shutdown, punishing defender. Scott Stevens comparisons floated around for a while. He looked like a mean SOB until he got to the NHL and then he wasn't nearly as physical or anything close to a shutdown guy. He's had some injury trouble and is now just a 'meh" AHL defenseman.

Marc-Andre Bourdon- This was thought in Philly to be a serious steal in the third round. He tore up the Q and put up some serious numbers. A lot of people even said he would have been a first rounder or early second but because he played in the middle of nowhere, scouts rarely saw him(which is obviously BS). He seemed to have it all, he was physical and looked like a guy that could put up 40 points a year in the NHL if you put him with a defensive defenseman that could cover for him. His "explosive" offense showed it's limits at the pro level and that combined with injuries showed, he's nothing more than a depth defenseman at best. I guess that isnt terrible for a 3rd rounder but my hopes were high for his offensive and puck moving ability.

Simon Bertilsson- Another guy compared to Timonen(when will people stop doing that?). It turns out the only thing he has in common with Kimmo is that he's an undersized Euro. He's stuck in the SEL and doesn't look like an NHL level prospect.

Nick Luukko- Just kidding, daddy's boy always sucked.

Shayne Gostisbehere- More Kimmo comparisons? Really? Ugh. I know he looked good for USA and all but, really, can we just relax a little? He's now 20, and looks like a depth defenseman if he pans out. People that think he's going to be an offensive threat that will be a 3-4 will most likely be looking back at him as another Lehtivuori that coulda been.


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05-01-2013, 02:35 PM
  #943
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I think we take Pulock is somebody else doesn't before us. HUGE shot, and that's all anybody talks about, but he's a leader with a solid two-way game who can be an elite guy on the point on the powerplay. We can talk about replacing Pronger all we want but we need to look at the line-up without Timonen too.

L. Schenn - defensive, developing two-way
Gustafsson - two-way leaning towards offensive
Coburn - defensive, limited offense
Grossmann - defensive, no offense

This group lacks a pure offensive guy who can be our no.1 offensive defender. I don't think Ristolainen or Zadorov really have the same offensive skills that Pulock has. Pulock seems very much like Shattenkirk to me.

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05-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #944
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I think we take Pulock is somebody else doesn't before us. HUGE shot, and that's all anybody talks about, but he's a leader with a solid two-way game who can be an elite guy on the point on the powerplay. We can talk about replacing Pronger all we want but we need to look at the line-up without Timonen too.
....

This group lacks a pure offensive guy who can be our no.1 offensive defender. I don't think Ristolainen or Zadorov really have the same offensive skills that Pulock has. Pulock seems very much like Shattenkirk to me.
The Shatty comparison is intriguing, but perhaps a bit off-base because Pulock's skating is, by most accounts, just average (or perhaps a bit above or below) for size, whereas Shattenkirk was regarded as an excellent skater even before his draft year.

Quote:
Offensive D, Loves to jump in, gap control needs work, good size, 4th forward, good offensive tools, loses his man defensively at times; getting stronger and thicker; effortless skater with acceleration and flat out speed; does whatever he wants with the puck; potential superstar; complete game is rounding out well; much more physical than this summer; great anticipation;smart; aware; very strong on stick; would be a big surprise if he went OHL route; offered by U-17 NTDP
http://www.redlinejunior.com/html/sam_60profiles.html

I'd never thought of this before, but in at least some respects, that describes Gostisbehere's game--at least until you get to the "potential superstar" part.

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05-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #945
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Yeah, skating wise the comparison is off but by no means is Pulock a bad skater. Similar style of play and production though, I think, could be spot on.

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05-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I sucks looking back on all the times we had mid round defenseman that we drafted and thought had serious potential to be #3-4 NHL defenders and it just seems none of them ever pan out.

Joonas Lehtivuori- He showed promise in SM-Liiga in his second season and the Timonen comparisons started. People thought there was top 4 upside and then he came to NA and showed even in the AHL that he couldn't defend and his offense was limited.

Denis Bodrov- He was a second rounder that was thought to be a solid defensive defenseman with second pairing upside. There was always a questions as to whether or not he would leave the KHL. He came for an abbreviated AHL stint and got turned so bad every game that he ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs.

Kevin Marshall- Another second rounder that looked like a shutdown, punishing defender. Scott Stevens comparisons floated around for a while. He looked like a mean SOB until he got to the NHL and then he wasn't nearly as physical or anything close to a shutdown guy. He's had some injury trouble and is now just a 'meh" AHL defenseman.

Marc-Andre Bourdon- This was thought in Philly to be a serious steal in the third round. He tore up the Q and put up some serious numbers. A lot of people even said he would have been a first rounder or early second but because he played in the middle of nowhere, scouts rarely saw him(which is obviously BS). He seemed to have it all, he was physical and looked like a guy that could put up 40 points a year in the NHL if you put him with a defensive defenseman that could cover for him. His "explosive" offense showed it's limits at the pro level and that combined with injuries showed, he's nothing more than a depth defenseman at best. I guess that isnt terrible for a 3rd rounder but my hopes were high for his offensive and puck moving ability.

Simon Bertilsson- Another guy compared to Timonen(when will people stop doing that?). It turns out the only thing he has in common with Kimmo is that he's an undersized Euro. He's stuck in the SEL and doesn't look like an NHL level prospect.

Nick Luukko- Just kidding, daddy's boy always sucked.

Shayne Gostisbehere- More Kimmo comparisons? Really? Ugh. I know he looked good for USA and all but, really, can we just relax a little? He's now 20, and looks like a depth defenseman if he pans out. People that think he's going to be an offensive threat that will be a 3-4 will most likely be looking back at him as another Lehtivuori that coulda been.
Agreed on all points except on Ghost. Honestly, at this early point in his development, it's just as easy to say hell be a good 3-4 guy asiy is to see hell be another lehtivuori. It's just too early to tell, but I don't blame people for being excited about him. He's looked pretty good in both the wjc and for union. Doesn't mean he will be a good nhl player, but its not that far fetched to believe he can be.

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05-01-2013, 03:27 PM
  #947
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Agreed on all points except on Ghost. Honestly, at this early point in his development, it's just as easy to say hell be a good 3-4 guy asiy is to see hell be another lehtivuori. It's just too early to tell, but I don't blame people for being excited about him. He's looked pretty good in both the wjc and for union. Doesn't mean he will be a good nhl player, but its not that far fetched to believe he can be.
I agree that he can be but 5 years ago people said the same thing about Lehtivuori and Bodrov, 3 years ago people said the same thing about Marshall and even more about Bourdon, and most recently people said it about Bertilsson. I'm not saying he can't but I see a lot of people penciling him into the second pairing and hoping he will replace Kimmo's offence and I just think that's setting yourself up for a let down. I hope Ghost plays in the A next year and if he shows the two way play there, then I'll start getting excited.

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05-01-2013, 03:33 PM
  #948
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I agree that he can be but 5 years ago people said the same thing about Lehtivuori and Bodrov, 3 years ago people said the same thing about Marshall and even more about Bourdon, and most recently people said it about Bertilsson. I'm not saying he can't but I see a lot of people penciling him into the second pairing and hoping he will replace Kimmo's offence and I just think that's setting yourself up for a let down. I hope Ghost plays in the A next year and if he shows the two way play there, then I'll start getting excited.
Gostisbehere will be back at Union next year, and probably spend some time in the AHL after that.

I agree that Timonen is a poor projection. Gostisbehere is more dynamic than that--in good ways and bad. He's got a ways to go before he can be projected as a two-way, top-4 defenseman, let alone an all-situations kind of guy.

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05-01-2013, 03:42 PM
  #949
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Gostisbehere will be back at Union next year, and probably spend some time in the AHL after that.

I agree that Timonen is a poor projection. Gostisbehere is more dynamic than that--in good ways and bad. He's got a ways to go before he can be projected as a two-way, top-4 defenseman, let alone an all-situations kind of guy.
Gostibehere reminds me of the guy who picked him for the US WJC team: Phil Housley. Small, fast, smart, skilled. He needs some time to fill out, but I really think he has the skills and brains to be a player.

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05-01-2013, 03:47 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I sucks looking back on all the times we had mid round defenseman that we drafted and thought had serious potential to be #3-4 NHL defenders and it just seems none of them ever pan out.

Joonas Lehtivuori- He showed promise in SM-Liiga in his second season and the Timonen comparisons started. People thought there was top 4 upside and then he came to NA and showed even in the AHL that he couldn't defend and his offense was limited.

Denis Bodrov- He was a second rounder that was thought to be a solid defensive defenseman with second pairing upside. There was always a questions as to whether or not he would leave the KHL. He came for an abbreviated AHL stint and got turned so bad every game that he ran back to Russia with his tail between his legs.

Kevin Marshall- Another second rounder that looked like a shutdown, punishing defender. Scott Stevens comparisons floated around for a while. He looked like a mean SOB until he got to the NHL and then he wasn't nearly as physical or anything close to a shutdown guy. He's had some injury trouble and is now just a 'meh" AHL defenseman.

Marc-Andre Bourdon- This was thought in Philly to be a serious steal in the third round. He tore up the Q and put up some serious numbers. A lot of people even said he would have been a first rounder or early second but because he played in the middle of nowhere, scouts rarely saw him(which is obviously BS). He seemed to have it all, he was physical and looked like a guy that could put up 40 points a year in the NHL if you put him with a defensive defenseman that could cover for him. His "explosive" offense showed it's limits at the pro level and that combined with injuries showed, he's nothing more than a depth defenseman at best. I guess that isnt terrible for a 3rd rounder but my hopes were high for his offensive and puck moving ability.

Simon Bertilsson- Another guy compared to Timonen(when will people stop doing that?). It turns out the only thing he has in common with Kimmo is that he's an undersized Euro. He's stuck in the SEL and doesn't look like an NHL level prospect.

Nick Luukko- Just kidding, daddy's boy always sucked.

Shayne Gostisbehere- More Kimmo comparisons? Really? Ugh. I know he looked good for USA and all but, really, can we just relax a little? He's now 20, and looks like a depth defenseman if he pans out. People that think he's going to be an offensive threat that will be a 3-4 will most likely be looking back at him as another Lehtivuori that coulda been.
Regarding MAB, I think his game was developing nicely in his last active season...I liked his defense at the blueline and he was starting to activate more offensively and get more shots and points...I think was on his way to being a second pairing type in time if not for his injuries. He's been recovering slowly but surely but it remains to be seen if/when he can play again.

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