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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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05-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #76
TarTransition
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
I'll go on record as being one who wouldn't be dissapointed with taking Lazaar at #7.
I'm admittedly no scout or avid watcher of Junior hockey. But I am watching the Oil Kings in the playoffs and this kid is bat **** insane.

I know people have a valid argument about his point production. But when I watch him play he's always around the puck or puck is always around him. He goes to places on the ice 90% of the current team wouldn't dare.

To me he just seems like a player that helps his team win no matter the cost.
That's more important to me than height, face off percentage, etc.
Reminds me of a defensive version of Taylor Hall to be honest. Stronger on his skates but without the offensive creativity of Hall.

Only time will tell I guess.
This might sound like funny ****, but he reminds me a lot of Craig Mact. I think his game puts him as a decent 3rd liner once fully developed and in the NHL. He will be able to shut down other teams op lines, kill penalties, and chip in some timely goals in the process. Only difference is that he will be able to stay on his feet better.

With that said, this is probably who Mac-t is looking at.

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Old
05-01-2013, 10:32 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
A creative trade will include moving Hemsky and PICKING UP part of his salary.

Hemsky (Oilers pick-up 1M, meaning he has a 4M hit to the other team).
Oilers 2nd Round pick (38th overall)

for

NYI's 14th overall pick (potentially Lazar)

Columbus' 23rd overall pick could be available too. I could also see something with Washington for 22nd overall. Hemsky is clearly on the way out - might as well take a shot for Lazar (also assuming we have Monahan or Lindholm at no.7).

I also think the Oilers will take Tristan Jarry at no.38 if they hang on to that pick.
I agree with this. I think Edmonton would be better off to trade up using their 2nd and/or Anahiems 2nd and Hemsky than trading down to get Lazar. Trading out of the top 7 is a recipe for disaster.

Also I think Edmonton would be better off dumping Hemsky for draft picks/prospects any way so that they can use his cap hit on a UFA player. So this scenario fits both bills.

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Old
05-01-2013, 10:55 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
I agree with this. I think Edmonton would be better off to trade up using their 2nd and/or Anahiems 2nd and Hemsky than trading down to get Lazar. Trading out of the top 7 is a recipe for disaster.

Also I think Edmonton would be better off dumping Hemsky for draft picks/prospects any way so that they can use his cap hit on a UFA player. So this scenario fits both bills.
The UFA pool isn't deep enough for us to think that way unless you're in favour of us heavily overpaying some new players.

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05-01-2013, 11:02 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
The UFA pool isn't deep enough for us to think that way unless you're in favour of us heavily overpaying some new players.
If we can trade Hemsky for picks than use that 5 mil to sign a guy like Horton or Clarkson I think the Oilers walk away laughing.

They don't have to use all 5 mil on that player but it gives them more flexibility.

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05-01-2013, 11:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
If we can trade Hemsky for picks than use that 5 mil to sign a guy like Horton or Clarkson I think the Oilers walk away laughing.

They don't have to use all 5 mil on that player but it gives them more flexibility.
Horton is overrated.

1: Inconsistent offensively.
2: Overpaid.
3: Doesn't play physically often enough.
4: he's a right winger.
5: He's got a right handed shot.

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Old
05-01-2013, 11:23 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
This is the problem with a lot of Oiler fans IMO. Too much falling in love with "catch my eye" high skill level type of stuff and not enough emphasis on players who actually help teams win games.

I've seen Monahan play enough to know that he does everything at a high level, he's an extremely high Hockey IQ guy who can excel in any situation. He's not going to WOW anybody with high skill and blazing speed but he's the type of guy that you want to go to war with against the Kings and Blues of the world.

Same thing with Lazar, too much looking at statlines and not enough watching the player play and seeing his true value to a team. I'm not saying that i would take him at 7 but he's really underrated around here because he's not a high skilled guy who will put up a ton of points.
Agreed

Getting a guy who works hard, has a high hockey IQ, and plays a more simple straight forward game with a nose for the net could go a long way for this team. When watching highlights of Barkov and Monahan, they might not jump off the screen at you but their effective positioning, board work and style of play is exactly what we need compared to what we got.

Still really like Nurse and of course Lazar as well

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Old
05-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Horton is overrated.

1: Inconsistent offensively.
2: Overpaid.
3: Doesn't play physically often enough.
4: he's a right winger.
5: He's got a right handed shot.
I agree. But...

1. He's not required to score like a top line winger.
2. For sure
3. Yeah. And the concussions probably made that worse.
4. We need RWs. If we trade Hemsky, there will be a hole in the 3 RW spot. And we really don't have anything in the pipeline.
5. We have 4 RH shots in the forward group. 3 if you remove Hemsky. We need to replace him with a righty. Doesn't have to be Horton though.

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05-01-2013, 11:30 AM
  #83
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If they don't get Monahan or Lindholm I actually think they may trade down for Lazar.

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Old
05-01-2013, 11:58 AM
  #84
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I would be very impressed if Oilers came out of this draft with both Monahan and Lazar even if its at a cost of losing Gagner and/or Hemsky and Oilers 2nd round picks.

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05-01-2013, 12:10 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
I would be very impressed if Oilers came out of this draft with both Monahan and Lazar even if its at a cost of losing Gagner and/or Hemsky and Oilers 2nd round picks.
Agreed. Grabbing two centres out of the first round would really help with our centre depth.

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05-01-2013, 12:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sharky94 View Post
Why does everyone want to trade Hemsky? He would make for a perfect 3rd liner behind Eberle and Yakupov.
I had to stop here, because it's just not true. He's an expensive 3rd liner who isn't a stellar defensive player and isn't gritty. Hemsky is tough, but not Gritty.

You have to add things to the bottom 6 that the Oilers don't have.

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05-01-2013, 12:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Sharky94 View Post
Well then was there anything wrong with the Yakupov Gagner Hemsky 2nd line?
lol, Hemsky on the Right side to start, and a bottom-20 finish for second. You have to actually Change the team if you want different results.

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05-01-2013, 12:34 PM
  #88
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ISS has Nichushkin 2nd in their mid April ranking. Interesting. The more I look into the top 7/8 in this draft the less I want to see it traded.

One thing to add on the Lazar argument. And it's the same argument you could use on Lander. That two way game that works so well in juniors and lesser leagues takes a serious hit when you are trying to duplicate it at the pro level. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds are so much less effective when trying to bring the same thing at the pro level when the guys they play against are often 6'2", 6'3", 6'4" and 210, 220, 230. I think an average NHLer is closer to 6'2" and 210 pounds.

These guys are already undersized. I know size isn't everything but to play an effective two way game in this league especially at centre, I think you need someone that is at least 6' 2" and 215. An effective big man in todays NHL is 6' 4" and 230. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds is what we have way too many of. And to get bigger we are now in the position that we have to seriously look at the size of players we add. We really do need to get bigger one player at a time. One draft at a time.

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Old
05-01-2013, 12:35 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sharky94 View Post
Why does everyone want to trade Hemsky? He would make for a perfect 3rd liner behind Eberle and Yakupov. He's been with this team for how long and I can't believe this many people want to get rid of him.

When I was watching the cup run in '06 as a young man this was one of the guys I was always paying attention to when he was on the ice. I'm sure he was a fan favourite then. Would really hate to see him go, and he's one of the few on the team with playoff experience. Other than Horcoff and Smyth.
If Hemsky has no room on the first or second line, then there's not much use in playing him.

It's true that he can create offence by himself, but he's not a guy who will get up for third-line minutes.

In an ideal world, we could keep him, but right now, it's a matter of value.

Can we get a excellent d-man by trading him + something else?

If we can't get a trade done at the draft or before the season starts, then it'll come down to the trade deadline. At which point, we might get fleeced.

I don't see Hemsky signing past next season. He certainly knows about all the talent they've brought in. He knows that he might not have a place after next season.

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05-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky94 View Post
Why does everyone want to trade Hemsky? He would make for a perfect 3rd liner behind Eberle and Yakupov. He's been with this team for how long and I can't believe this many people want to get rid of him.

When I was watching the cup run in '06 as a young man this was one of the guys I was always paying attention to when he was on the ice. I'm sure he was a fan favourite then. Would really hate to see him go, and he's one of the few on the team with playoff experience. Other than Horcoff and Smyth.
The biggest problem now is that you can't count on him to play 82 games.

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05-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #91
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Figured this would be a good place to leave this. If he develops right, he'd be everything this D is missing.


Last edited by s7ark: 05-01-2013 at 01:33 PM. Reason: fixed youtube link
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05-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Harley View Post
ISS has Nichushkin 2nd in their mid April ranking. Interesting. The more I look into the top 7/8 in this draft the less I want to see it traded.

One thing to add on the Lazar argument. And it's the same argument you could use on Lander. That two way game that works so well in juniors and lesser leagues takes a serious hit when you are trying to duplicate it at the pro level. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds are so much less effective when trying to bring the same thing at the pro level when the guys they play against are often 6'2", 6'3", 6'4" and 210, 220, 230. I think an average NHLer is closer to 6'2" and 210 pounds.

These guys are already undersized. I know size isn't everything but to play an effective two way game in this league especially at centre, I think you need someone that is at least 6' 2" and 215. An effective big man in todays NHL is 6' 4" and 230. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds is what we have way too many of. And to get bigger we are now in the position that we have to seriously look at the size of players we add. We really do need to get bigger one player at a time. One draft at a time.
Actually the average NHLer is about 6'0.5'' 200lbs.

Basically the exact size of Lazar as an 18 year old.

Players that size aren't undersized.


And 6'4'' 230lbs to be an effective big man? That means the only skilled effective big men in the league are Nik Antropov and Dustin Penner.


Height and weight are so overrated when discussing the size a player brings to a line-up.

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Old
05-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post


Figured this would be a good place to leave this. If he develops right, he'd be everything this D is missing.
Is this fixed?

edit: And yeah, he does have some toughness.

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05-01-2013, 01:10 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Actually the average NHLer is about 6'0.5'' 200lbs.

Basically the exact size of Lazar as an 18 year old.

Players that size aren't undersized.


And 6'4'' 230lbs to be an effective big man? That means the only skilled effective big men in the league are Nik Antropov and Dustin Penner.


Height and weight are so overrated when discussing the size a player brings to a line-up.
Pretty much this, because it's amazing when you only use high and weight how somethings that look SO different, appear the same, case in point

Sam Gagner (Small Oilers Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Mike Richards (Big, Physical Kings Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Interesting how that works.

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05-01-2013, 01:14 PM
  #95
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Well then was there anything wrong with the Yakupov Gagner Hemsky 2nd line?
Yes. Gagner and Hemsky.

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05-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Pretty much this, because it's amazing when you only use high and weight how somethings that look SO different, appear the same, case in point

Sam Gagner (Small Oilers Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Mike Richards (Big, Physical Kings Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Interesting how that works.
Bingo, it's not all about how big you are it's how you use your size, how strong you are, etc. Being taller usually makes it easier to protect the puck because you have a longer reach, but if Gagner played like Richards we wouldn't be looking at centers IMO, we'd be drafting Nurse at #7.

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05-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #97
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Yes. Gagner and Hemsky.

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05-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #98
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ISS has Nichushkin 2nd in their mid April ranking. Interesting. The more I look into the top 7/8 in this draft the less I want to see it traded.

One thing to add on the Lazar argument. And it's the same argument you could use on Lander. That two way game that works so well in juniors and lesser leagues takes a serious hit when you are trying to duplicate it at the pro level. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds are so much less effective when trying to bring the same thing at the pro level when the guys they play against are often 6'2", 6'3", 6'4" and 210, 220, 230. I think an average NHLer is closer to 6'2" and 210 pounds.

These guys are already undersized. I know size isn't everything but to play an effective two way game in this league especially at centre, I think you need someone that is at least 6' 2" and 215. An effective big man in todays NHL is 6' 4" and 230. Players under 6 feet and 200 pounds is what we have way too many of. And to get bigger we are now in the position that we have to seriously look at the size of players we add. We really do need to get bigger one player at a time. One draft at a time.
Is Mike Richards an effective two way center?

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Old
05-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Pretty much this, because it's amazing when you only use high and weight how somethings that look SO different, appear the same, case in point

Sam Gagner (Small Oilers Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Mike Richards (Big, Physical Kings Center) - 5'11" 199lbs

Interesting how that works.
This. It's not how big they are, its how big they play.

And I'm really warming up to Ristolainen if the top centres are gone.

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Old
05-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #100
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This. It's not how big they are, its how big they play.

And I'm really warming up to Ristolainen if the top centres are gone.
I am too if the Mean streak is as advertised.

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