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Old
05-01-2013, 12:00 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Never mind, lol
Please refer to my edited post...

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05-01-2013, 12:03 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Wasn't that all part of the rebuild idea?? Coaching has also been part of vastly improved special team stats in successive years. Just saying
What part did Bucky have in the special teams? Powerplay? PK?

Not arguing with you - just feel there are better options on a bottom feeder team in the coaching.

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05-01-2013, 12:13 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Quote, Link, any proof will do
Bucky and Smith. Both ex-Oilers that are obvious nepotism positions. Pretty hard to argue IMHO. Bucky has survived four coaching changes. Huddy was replaced by Smith. All ex-Oilers.

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05-01-2013, 12:24 AM
  #754
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The media seems to be on the page that Kruger should get another coach on his staff as well as maybe moving Bucky out. Hopefully if they are on board it actually happens.

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05-01-2013, 12:54 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Bucky and Smith. Both ex-Oilers that are obvious nepotism positions. Pretty hard to argue IMHO. Bucky has survived four coaching changes. Huddy was replaced by Smith. All ex-Oilers.
This has nothing to do with the proof request put in, which is that the coaches are "not allowed to bring in their own assistants."

You can argue that they are nepotism positions which is fine, but it's pretty weak evidence that the coaches are simply not allowed to replace the assistants if they felt it was prudent.

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05-01-2013, 02:00 AM
  #756
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Bucky is a good old boy true and true and has been rewarded for all the pounding and licks he took for the team.

Georges L didn't know when to step in and do his job. Hemsky would be getting his head run from end to end and George L would do nothing.

Stortini was a punching bag. Nobody feared him so what is the point of having him. When he made his debute with Nashville he was pounded hard and got send down the next day.

Smackintyre was ridden to the press because he couldn't skate. Last time I checked what part of skating does a goon need again ?

Bieksa is a pretty tough customer. I think it would be a good scrap between him and Brown. I like Brown in that he doesn't take stupid penalties. He knows when to inject some energy on the team when fighting. Not scared to fight any comers like Brandon Prust. As someone stated he needs someone to help him out a bit as the bottom six are cream puffs. JMO

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05-01-2013, 08:42 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by thinlizzy View Post
Bucky is a good old boy true and true and has been rewarded for all the pounding and licks he took for the team.

Georges L didn't know when to step in and do his job. Hemsky would be getting his head run from end to end and George L would do nothing.

Stortini was a punching bag. Nobody feared him so what is the point of having him. When he made his debute with Nashville he was pounded hard and got send down the next day.

Smackintyre was ridden to the press because he couldn't skate. Last time I checked what part of skating does a goon need again ?

Bieksa is a pretty tough customer. I think it would be a good scrap between him and Brown. I like Brown in that he doesn't take stupid penalties. He knows when to inject some energy on the team when fighting. Not scared to fight any comers like Brandon Prust. As someone stated he needs someone to help him out a bit as the bottom six are cream puffs. JMO
Bieksa would never fight Brown, and that's the problem with tough guys. The large majority of "regular" players won't drop the gloves with them.

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05-01-2013, 09:14 AM
  #758
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Give Ralph an "associate coach."

Let him choose, but pick someone outside of the organization.

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05-01-2013, 09:23 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
Give Ralph an "associate coach."

Let him choose, but pick someone outside of the organization.
Enough with the associate bs.

Its time to do a proper house cleaning. No hangers on. If they didnt think Krueger could do the job they should never have hired him. Giving him an associate isnt going to change anything. All it will do will be to give management an excuse to keep the associate after Krueger gets gassed.

**** that ****.

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05-01-2013, 10:17 AM
  #760
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I think Brown would tool Bieksa. If Bieksa wasn't too much of a ***** to not turtle.
Given its Bieksa we are talking about, turtling is a very real possibility. But Bieksa can be a handful if he wants to be. Brown is not that tough. Did you see Konopka landing shots at will? Eager is more effective than Brown, and that's not saying a lot.
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I agree this team is way too soft. The 2nd-4th lines are full of small cream puffs who if not producing offense dont do anything well. Besides Brown who hits and fights and Paajarvi who plays stellar D.
MPS's defensive prowess being exaggerated again, and talk about weak, he's a poster boy for weak in this league. The whole roster is weak. Brown doesn't make that much difference.
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We also has Fistric who is easily one of our top 6 Dmen regularly HS'd by Kreuger for some reason.
I thought Fistric deserved more minutes too.
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We have one player who is regularly willing. Brown. And you want to get rid of him. He is a perfectly capable player of taking a regular 4th line shift
Actually he isn't. The guy is flat out bad at hockey.

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05-01-2013, 10:42 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Bucky and Smith. Both ex-Oilers that are obvious nepotism positions. Pretty hard to argue IMHO. Bucky has survived four coaching changes. Huddy was replaced by Smith. All ex-Oilers.
What is your point? That there is nepotism in hockey, no ****. Smith and Bucky seem like capable asst. to me, I am just wondering what the basis for firing them would be. Smith was a tough as nails dman with a great service record and clearly knew the position for which he teaches. Bucky, while not a skilled forward, gave every ounce of try in his body every night and got beat up many times sticking up for teammates. Most importantly both knew what it took to be successful in this league. I know some may get sick of the old boys club but IMO I think that history and tradition is worth hanging on to.

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05-01-2013, 10:47 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Thanks for recognizing what I was trying to say there Tarus. Stortini was hungry and willing to do whatever he had to to stay in the league. These days we've got a bunch of entitled softies who wouldn't drop the gloves if their own momma was getting roughed up.

Exactly. But I think you forgot to mention Horc standing around looking senatorial as he pretends not to see what is going on.

Lets remember Quinn who used to call a spade a spade. He said most of the team was "creampuffs and morning glories", which pretty much nails it I think.

Plenty of reasons to question Krueger's moves this season. No need to make stuff up.

That was a team with Souray,Moreau, Jacques,Staios,Strudwick,Penner and Huggie Bear. All guys who could handle the physical game pretty well. God only knows what he would say about this group.

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05-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #763
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thinlizzy :Bucky is a good old boy true and true and has been rewarded for all the pounding and licks he took for the team.

True, and just horrible management decision to do so.

Georges L didn't know when to step in and do his job. Hemsky would be getting his head run from end to end and George L would do nothing.

He had to get permission from mact to go after another player, just like all of our tough guys. That is one of the massive epic fails in mact's coaching.


Stortini was a punching bag. Nobody feared him so what is the point of having him. When he made his debute with Nashville he was pounded hard and got send down the next day.

He at LEAST answered the bell, more than I can say for most of the rest of the team.

Smackintyre was ridden to the press because he couldn't skate. Last time I checked what part of skating does a goon need again ?

He was pretty bad but once again the coaching staffs we have had over the years always neuter the tough guys from doing their jobs.

Bieksa is a pretty tough customer. I think it would be a good scrap between him and Brown. I like Brown in that he doesn't take stupid penalties. He knows when to inject some energy on the team when fighting. Not scared to fight any comers like Brandon Prust. As someone stated he needs someone to help him out a bit as the bottom six are cream puffs. JMO

Bieksa picks his spots and goes to the Dion Phaneuf school of beating on smaller guys or guys who are engaged. Any serious challenge and he does not answer the bell.

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05-01-2013, 10:56 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
What is your point? That there is nepotism in hockey, no ****. Smith and Bucky seem like capable asst. to me, I am just wondering what the basis for firing them would be. Smith was a tough as nails dman with a great service record and clearly knew the position for which he teaches. Bucky, while not a skilled forward, gave every ounce of try in his body every night and got beat up many times sticking up for teammates. Most importantly both knew what it took to be successful in this league. I know some may get sick of the old boys club but IMO I think that history and tradition is worth hanging on to.
The argument ends there then. You think they are capable to good a lot of others think they are lousy. What these players did on the ice 20 years ago has zero bearing on their ability to coach other than to at times seem to push some of the younger players into doing things they might do. We have the weakest set of assistants in the league.

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05-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The argument ends there then. You think they are capable to good a lot of others think they are lousy. What these players did on the ice 20 years ago has zero bearing on their ability to coach other than to at times seem to push some of the younger players into doing things they might do. We have the weakest set of assistants in the league.
Basis??? Proof???

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05-01-2013, 11:07 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Given its Bieksa we are talking about, turtling is a very real possibility. But Bieksa can be a handful if he wants to be. Brown is not that tough. Did you see Konopka landing shots at will? Eager is more effective than Brown, and that's not saying a lot.
MPS's defensive prowess being exaggerated again, and talk about weak, he's a poster boy for weak in this league. The whole roster is weak. Brown doesn't make that much difference.
I thought Fistric deserved more minutes too.
Actually he isn't. The guy is flat out bad at hockey.
Regarding MPS and Brown:

I like the energy Brown CAN bring, although he did go through that stretch during our losing streak where he didn't do much, but like its been said, he's horrible at all other facets of the game. Can't pass, can't receive a pass, can't carry the puck, and can't cycle/dig the puck out because he inevitably bumbles with it.

MPS, I just don't know about. It was nice to see him go into some of the tougher areas this season, and he does have some skill, but he's as soft as butter. When you hear other teams state that the oil are fun/easy to play against, he to me epitomizes this. He just doesn't have a mean bone in his body and plays exactly like that.

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05-01-2013, 12:23 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Basis??? Proof???
There wil be absolutely no basis or proof.

It's just another opinion stated as a fact.

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05-01-2013, 12:31 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The argument ends there then. You think they are capable to good a lot of others think they are lousy. What these players did on the ice 20 years ago has zero bearing on their ability to coach other than to at times seem to push some of the younger players into doing things they might do. We have the weakest set of assistants in the league.
Actually, you would think Joe Sacco, and Colorado, did because he actually got canned.

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05-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
What is your point? That there is nepotism in hockey, no ****. Smith and Bucky seem like capable asst. to me, I am just wondering what the basis for firing them would be. Smith was a tough as nails dman with a great service record and clearly knew the position for which he teaches. Bucky, while not a skilled forward, gave every ounce of try in his body every night and got beat up many times sticking up for teammates. Most importantly both knew what it took to be successful in this league. I know some may get sick of the old boys club but IMO I think that history and tradition is worth hanging on to.
I know players often come back as coaches. What I see is two guys that have been part of several poor coaching staffs. (mostly Abucky there) Clearly, coaching is again suspect and the optics of these guys getting hired without any other outside help, like a Wayne Flemming, seems off.

We need to, at the very least, add another coach for Kreuger that is not an old boy. He could use the help of an associate.

As for your assertion that guys who were great at some things make for great coaches, I guess you were a big fan of Gretzky's coaching too.

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05-01-2013, 01:04 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Enough with the associate bs.

Its time to do a proper house cleaning. No hangers on. If they didnt think Krueger could do the job they should never have hired him. Giving him an associate isnt going to change anything. All it will do will be to give management an excuse to keep the associate after Krueger gets gassed.

**** that ****.
Agreed, but we all know it won't happen unfortunately. Because of that, the most likely thing to happen is another associate.

Clean sweep would be ideal to me as well, I just don't see it happening, not unless Ralph craps the bed in the first 20 next year.

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05-01-2013, 01:08 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
There wil be absolutely no basis or proof.

It's just another opinion stated as a fact.
Just like your opinion is not proof for the opposite side of the debate. That is what a debate forum brings....opinions. Coaching is so subjective, especially when it comes to assistants. You see something as a positive that another may see as a negative. Thus, opposite opinions not always able to be supported by data empirically. The human element is rather subjective to me. Just my two cents.

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05-01-2013, 01:26 PM
  #772
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Did anyone else think from MacT's famous press conference that he left the door open to finding a new coach?

I know he said he wanted to have a long sit down with Kruger. I hope its about the much discussed breakout and the system only the oilers are using.

If Kruger stands by these, maybe he gets replaced? MacT knows a thing or 2 about coaching and might see the same holes we do.

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05-01-2013, 01:26 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
There wil be absolutely no basis or proof.

It's just another opinion stated as a fact.
You could always look at the standings.

Or the FACT that the Oilers have never made the playoffs with Bucky on the staff.

Or the FACT that he has been part of four failed coaching staffs, none of which were able to make the post season, and not even close with two 30th place finishes in a row followed by a 29th place finish.

Or the FACT that no other organization has hired Buchberger to do anything.

Or the FACT that his only season as a head coach, that team also failed to make the playoffs.

Are those enough FACTS for you?

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05-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Just like your opinion is not proof for the opposite side of the debate. That is what a debate forum brings....opinions. Coaching is so subjective, especially when it comes to assistants. You see something as a positive that another may see as a negative. Thus, opposite opinions not always able to be supported by data empirically. The human element is rather subjective to me. Just my two cents.
It could help in the discussion if people actually provide some basis for their opinion by using facts, instead of just throwing out "Buchberger sucks! It's OBVIOUS".

Similar with "Krueger sucks", "Horcoff sucks", "Smyth sucks", "Potter sucks", "Schultz sucks", "Petrell sucks", "Belanger sucks", "Khabibulin sucks", "Dubnyk sucks".

I'm sure that "Gagner sucks", "Eberle sucks", "Petry sucks", "Justin Schultz sucks", all await in the wings.

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05-01-2013, 01:29 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
It could help in the discussion if people actually provide some basis for their opinion by using facts, instead of just throwing out "Buchberger sucks! It's OBVIOUS".

Similar with "Krueger sucks", "Horcoff sucks", "Smyth sucks", "Potter sucks", "Schultz sucks", "Petrell sucks", "Belanger sucks", "Khabibulin sucks", "Dubnyk sucks".

I'm sure that "Gagner sucks", "Eberle sucks", "Petry sucks", "Justin Schultz sucks", all await in the wings.
Well on this guy, I know we got BOTH he's Fat and Lazy this year, and/or he was slacking off and pretending to be hurt or some such thing.

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