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04-24-2013, 01:10 PM
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
i dont think anyone "wants" to trade read, we just might not be able to afford him.
I don't see it.

I'd ship Hartnell off if needed.

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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
A stupid argument. Can we afford to resign Giroux? Read type players are exactly what we need!
Yeah. I agree with this. I'm a huge Matt Read fan.

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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm not seeing the cap problems that others are, I guess.

Meszaros and Briere ($10.5) should be more than enough to re-sign Giroux (+$4.0-$5.0), Couturier (+$1.0), Schenn (likely no change in cap hit), and Read (+$2.5-$3.0)--and that doesn't include the space created by the cap increasing or Timonen's money (which I'd assume will be allocated to a defensive replacement).
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I don't see these cap problems, either. Couturier and B Schenn are not in line for big raises in their cap hits, and I don't think Bryz will be here for the 14-15 season.
This. I really don't see Bryz lasting much longer, I give him at least another season, but with the way Mason has been playing I think Bryz's run is getting shorter.


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Originally Posted by flyingsouth View Post
Been on board the whole time.... Love what he brings.
Vocal! Just kiddin'.

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Old
05-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #277
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So yesterday in Bill's blog post he noted that Matt Read is "On the Fence" as far as whether he should be retained....

Would be a shame if he isn't....such a versatile player and he seemed like a lock until his rib cage injury..then he was not as noticable but picked it up towards the end. Hopefully, the flyers keep him somehow..


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Matt Read: In his two-plus pro seasons, Read has become a personal favorite. I appreciate heady two-way players with good speed. It was unfortunate that he suffered a ribcage injury this season, because he was off to a fine start in his second NHL season. He struggled offensively after his (early) return to the lineup, but came on late in the year. There is not a good in-house candidate to replace Read's versatility. The main retention problem is that he can become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2014 and the Flyers will have a lot of other key contracts -- including RFAs Claude Giroux, Couturier and Brayden Schenn -- to deal with before then. Additionally, if the Flyers remain unwilling to trade Couturier or Schenn to upgrade the blueline, Read is a candidate to be moved in a somewhat lesser trade. If the Flyers can get Read signed to an off-season extension that kicks in for the 2014-15 season, the team will have more leeway to keep him on the roster. Conversely, an extension in hand could also boost trade value.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?p...&blogger_id=45

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05-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
So yesterday in Bill's blog post he noted that Matt Read is "On the Fence" as far as whether he should be retained....

Would be a shame if he isn't....such a versatile player and he seemed like a lock until his rib cage injury..then he was not as noticable but picked it up towards the end. Hopefully, the flyers keep him somehow..
I don't think that is a knock on his play, I think it is just the reality of the situation. A lot of young guys are looking at new contracts. I personally see a center as one being more likely to be moved because of the depth of that position. We'll see. Buying out Bryz and Briere could change a lot of thigns.

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05-01-2013, 01:10 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
So yesterday in Bill's blog post he noted that Matt Read is "On the Fence" as far as whether he should be retained....

Would be a shame if he isn't....such a versatile player and he seemed like a lock until his rib cage injury..then he was not as noticable but picked it up towards the end. Hopefully, the flyers keep him somehow..
I think they should re-sign him this summer. Timonen/Meszaros and potentially Bryz gone will create enough cap space IMO for G, Schenn and Couturier. If Bryz plays up to his contract Read could be traded next summer.

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05-01-2013, 01:50 PM
  #280
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Hornqvist just got $4.25 per year. He's the same age and they are both roughly 0.6 points per game players with similar skill sets so if you want a ball park figure start there.

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05-01-2013, 01:52 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Hornqvist just got $4.25 per year. He's the same age and they are both roughly 0.6 points per game players with similar skill sets so if you want a ball park figure start there.
$4.25? Wow, that's an epic bargain. I'll be Jody Shelley and get my face punched in a few times a year for less than that.

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05-01-2013, 01:54 PM
  #282
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I have a feeling Read's going to price himself out and get traded out. I hope I'm wrong because I really like Read and want him here.

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05-01-2013, 01:56 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I have a feeling Read's going to price himself out and get traded out. I hope I'm wrong because I really like Read and want him here.
You're likely correct, and I'm a Read fan as well. I make myself feel better by saying his offensive decline will happen sooner because he's old.

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05-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I have a feeling Read's going to price himself out and get traded out. I hope I'm wrong because I really like Read and want him here.
Wouldn't be shocked if Holmgren is in talks with Read's agent right now to try to lock down an extension before the summer kicks in or at least a ball-park, handshake deal before the draft.

The Flyers like to lock up the guys they plan to keep early. They could get Read at a very reasonable price coming off this 1/2 season.

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05-01-2013, 02:15 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Hornqvist just got $4.25 per year. He's the same age and they are both roughly 0.6 points per game players with similar skill sets so if you want a ball park figure start there.
Hornqvist is more of a Simmonds/Hartnell type player, and he's getting paid around the same money as them.

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05-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Wouldn't be shocked if Holmgren is in talks with Read's agent right now to try to lock down an extension before the summer kicks in or at least a ball-park, handshake deal before the draft.

The Flyers like to lock up the guys they plan to keep early. They could get Read at a very reasonable price coming off this 1/2 season.
Why do people argue this? His agent will just state the opposite and you are right back to square one. Actually you might hurt negotiations by trying to low ball the player because of a shortened season with a rib cage injury. They aren't going to get a discount because of this year. We know he is a 50 point player and will want to be payed like one.

Also, if we do look to trade him, look at the Flames. Their assistant GM loves him and they have an abundance of picks out there right now. If we establish we can't get a new reasonable contract for him, the time to move him is now.

Also if his agent thinks they are trying to low ball them, he will just say let's see how he does this season and go from there. He could take a home town discount, but it doesn't seem likely with Homer's track record.


Last edited by Prongo: 05-01-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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05-01-2013, 02:35 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Also if his agent thinks they are trying to low ball them, he will just say let's see how he does this season and go from there. He could take a home town discount, but it doesn't seem likely with Homer's track record.
Err?

Holmgren has a great record when it comes to contract extensions.

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05-01-2013, 02:38 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Err?
Bryz, Kimmo, Shelley, some will say pronger. UFA's have all hit pay dirt with Homer. The same can't be said about RFA's.

He gives excellent contracts to RFA's but when it comes time to pay up or let them leave, he gives in and pays them.

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05-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Bryz, Kimmo, Shelley, some will say pronger. UFA's have all hit pay dirt with Homer. The same can't be said about RFA's.

He gives excellent contracts to RFA's but when it comes time to pay up or let them leave, he gives in and pays them.
Meh, I dunno. you're comparing established veterans to a guy going for his second contract. It makes more sense to compare Read to Voracek or Simmonds (RFA status-be-damned) than to Pronger or Bryzgalov. Timonen came in a bit high, but, again, he had a much, much longer track record.

As to the second point, I'm not sure that's really that true. He didn't cave on Carle, right?

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05-01-2013, 02:41 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Meh, I dunno. you're comparing established veterans to a guy going for his second contract. It makes more sense to compare Read to Voracek or Simmonds (RFA status-be-damned) than to Pronger or Bryzgalov.

Timonen came in a bit high, but, again, he had a much, much longer track record.
Yes, but they were all UFA's. He usually over pays for players that hit or will hit the open market.

EDIT: No but if Homer gave that contract to him, we would all force him out of office. Tampa Bay were fools, even Homer saw that.

When he is giving out contracts though to UFA's, he generally over pays.

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05-01-2013, 02:44 PM
  #291
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Matt read is a more offensive version of Kris Versteeg.

That being said, Read will ask for 2nd line winger money and Im sure teams like the Islanders and even the Devils will be more than happy to pay to help themselves while hurting an opponent. He has been a luxury on the 3rd line , but if we pay him we are shoring up a top 6 of g, jake, hartnell, schenn, simmonds, and read. That is a pretty young group, but is that the top 6 we want going forward?

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05-01-2013, 02:46 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
When he is giving out contracts though to UFA's, he generally over pays.
Compared to who or what?

Take Timonen, for example. We'd all have liked that cap hit to come in lower, but does anyone really doubt that he would have gotten at least that much in July if he hit the market?

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05-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Compared to who or what?

Take Timonen, for example. We'd all have liked that cap hit to come in lower, but does anyone really doubt that he would have gotten at least that much in July if he hit the market?
Take Bryz for example, do you think anyone would have given him a 9 year 51 million dollar contract? No chance in hell he gets that from any team besides us.

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05-01-2013, 02:59 PM
  #294
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Take Bryz for example, do you think anyone would have given him a 9 year 51 million dollar contract? No chance in hell he gets that from any team besides us.
You completely ducked my question.

Anyway, I don't see the Bryzgalov signing as all that comparable to Timonen's recent extension. While the Flyers technically re-signed Bryzgalov, had had never played for them, and it was, what, a week before free agency opened?

Anyway, no need to turn this into (another) bash Holmgren fest. We should know soon enough whether they can get Read extended--and I agree with those who suggest moving him if a deal can't be reached.

I still like the Kunitz comparable for Read, and if we can get him at that number ($3.725 AAV) I'll be pretty happy.

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05-01-2013, 03:15 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
You completely ducked my question.

Anyway, I don't see the Bryzgalov signing as all that comparable to Timonen's recent extension. While the Flyers technically re-signed Bryzgalov, had had never played for them, and it was, what, a week before free agency opened?

Anyway, no need to turn this into (another) bash Holmgren fest. We should know soon enough whether they can get Read extended--and I agree with those who suggest moving him if a deal can't be reached.

I still like the Kunitz comparable for Read, and if we can get him at that number ($3.725 AAV) I'll be pretty happy.
You don't need to compare them to other signings. If you want me to I can. Goerge Parros is a comparable player to Shelley. He is signed for under 1 million and also can play the game of hockey. Shelley was literally paid 1.1 to try and fight. In his time in Philly he could barely make the red line to avoid icing the puck. Every enforcer on other teams are signed for under 1 million or well under 1 million. Not only did he take up to much cap, he also took up a contract.

The Flyers are paying Bryz as a top 10 goalie in the league. His numbers--36th in GAA-43 in SV%(.900)--47th in even strength SV%(.907) and 27th in SV% while shorthanded.

Those number right there are the reason he is over paid. You don't need to compare his signing with other goalies to see he is over paid. Not forgetting his contract might hurt the club in the long run if it wasn't for the amnesty buyout(which Homer didn't know he would get at the time of the signing).

I am a supporter of Homer. I will admit he does sign players to reasonable contracts(when RFA's) but he signs players to over priced contracts when they are UFA's. It's either they are over priced or the contract is too long. Briere is an example of that as well. Pronger another one. All UFA's. The length along with the cap hit still have the ability to hurt this club in the long run. Especially Bryz and Pronger.


Last edited by Prongo: 05-01-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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05-01-2013, 03:26 PM
  #296
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One very underrated aspect of his game as well is his PKing, after Couts he is probably the best on the team.

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05-01-2013, 03:30 PM
  #297
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One very underrated aspect of his game as well is his PKing, after Couts he is probably the best on the team.
Agreed.

I think he's a critically important piece going forward--all the more so as Hartnell gets a bit older.

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05-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #298
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While I'd be on board with trading Hartnell to keep Read, I don't see him waving his NTC. If we can't afford Read I'd be fine with trading him if we're getting a 1st in this year's draft.

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05-01-2013, 03:48 PM
  #299
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Like Meltzer noted...Hartnell tends to let his emotions get the best of him. I think Read will offer a lot more than what Hartnell will unless he really dedicates himself offseason like he did when Jagr was here...

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05-01-2013, 04:19 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I am a supporter of Homer. I will admit he does sign players to reasonable contracts(when RFA's) but he signs players to over priced contracts when they are UFA's. It's either they are over priced or the contract is too long. Briere is an example of that as well. Pronger another one. All UFA's. The length along with the cap hit still have the ability to hurt this club in the long run. Especially Bryz and Pronger.
I don't think the Briere contract was a bad one, and unlike Bryz there were a lot of other teams who wanted to sign him. I'm glad Homer got him and not Gomez, Drury or Smyth.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=394395

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