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Evander Kane/Zach Bogosian package

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Old
04-30-2013, 05:51 PM
  #26
Peter Petan
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Giroux + either Coburn or Simmonds for that package would be the minimum return. I assume most Philly fans wouldn't trade P. Kane straight up for Giroux, let alone adding Simmonds/Coburn. P. Kane had an elite season, but his value regress to the mean sooner rather than later...

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04-30-2013, 06:13 PM
  #27
coldsteelonice84
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The mean? He's a 100 point player and closer to reaching that potential than anyone else in the league that isn't already there. The mean is 90 points a season. The peak is 100+.

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04-30-2013, 06:42 PM
  #28
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This is the funniest thread I have seen in a while. You're just looking for vindication from the previous thread yet you found the opposite.

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04-30-2013, 08:10 PM
  #29
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Matt Duchene+Elliott/Barrie

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04-30-2013, 10:28 PM
  #30
Peter Petan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
The mean? He's a 100 point player and closer to reaching that potential than anyone else in the league that isn't already there. The mean is 90 points a season. The peak is 100+.
Even if you are focusing on potential... In hockey circles, 90-100pt one-dimensional forwards are at least close to equal to 75-85 pt forwards that are physically solid and play with an edge. The fact that you think Bogosian wouldnt be enough to close that hypothetical gap is embarrassing.

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05-01-2013, 12:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
What are these guys worth in terms of value, specifically in terms of one player? Reading the other thread where everyone was saying the Jets would get ***** if they only got Patrick Kane back was like reading a foreign language I do not know so educate me. Crosby? Malkin? Stamkos?
If you have to ask...you can't afford it.

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05-01-2013, 03:52 AM
  #32
BigTuna49
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How are we actually overrating Kane and Bogosian?

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05-01-2013, 07:20 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Duke89 View Post
How are we actually overrating Kane and Bogosian?
Hypothetical situation. You have those 2 players on your team before a playoff push. Who's coming back if you decide to trade them?

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05-01-2013, 08:26 AM
  #34
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
This is the funniest thread I have seen in a while. You're just looking for vindication from the previous thread yet you found the opposite.
Nope. I was looking for you guys to actually say they were worth Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos (Yes, I know some said only Getzlaf or Toews) because that was the impression I got and sure enough, a bunch of you said it. That's what you guys truly believe. Just wanted to confirm.

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05-01-2013, 08:30 AM
  #35
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How about Couturier+Read+1/2013+1/2015 for Kane+Bogosian/Byfuglien?

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05-01-2013, 08:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
How about Couturier+Read+1/2013+1/2015 for Kane+Bogosian/Byfuglien?
I think you're missing the point of this thread.

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05-01-2013, 09:59 AM
  #37
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by DandyEvandy9 View Post
Even if you are focusing on potential... In hockey circles, 90-100pt one-dimensional forwards are at least close to equal to 75-85 pt forwards that are physically solid and play with an edge. The fact that you think Bogosian wouldnt be enough to close that hypothetical gap is embarrassing.
I know you guys went without hockey for a long time but no, you are just flat out wrong. You keep calling Evander a 75-85 point player...maybe someday in his dreams.

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05-01-2013, 10:05 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Nope. I was looking for you guys to actually say they were worth Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos (Yes, I know some said only Getzlaf or Toews) because that was the impression I got and sure enough, a bunch of you said it. That's what you guys truly believe. Just wanted to confirm.
Can you please find me a quote in the previous thread where a Winnipeg fan said that that package is worth Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos?

I think you are completely missing the point that most of us were trying to make. It's not that we wouldn't love to have P. Kane on our team. He's a fantastic player. It's that we would be trading to of OUR stars as they are coming into their own. Essentially we would be selling them low. It would also create a hole that we don't want.

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05-01-2013, 10:05 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I know you guys went without hockey for a long time but no, you are just flat out wrong. You keep calling Evander a 75-85 point player...maybe someday in his dreams.
now are they wrong because Evander isn't a 75-85 point player or are they wrong because a 75-85 point physical player isn't worth as much as 90-100 pt scorer?

I would prefer the 75-85 point physical guy personally and would value him higher.


as for Evander, this is exactly what i had mentioned earlier in the thread. Even though he's still only been a 55 point player (i believe he was on a 56 point pace this season) considering he's 21 it's pretty amazing and again, we (correctly or incorrectly) assume he WILL be a 75+ scorer (personally i'd think 65+), and thus the valuation you get.

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05-01-2013, 10:09 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I know you guys went without hockey for a long time but no, you are just flat out wrong. You keep calling Evander a 75-85 point player...maybe someday in his dreams.
He certainly has the potential to do that. It's a pretty short list of elite players that have scored 30 goals at the age of 20.

The hype we have on E. Kane is that he is a much more complete player as well. He's able to score a good number of goals while also dishing out some pain.

This past season he had 147 hits. In comparison, P. Kane had 11. Granted that's not P. Kane's play style but it cannot be ignored.

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05-01-2013, 10:18 AM
  #41
coldsteelonice84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
now are they wrong because Evander isn't a 75-85 point player or are they wrong because a 75-85 point physical player isn't worth as much as 90-100 pt scorer?

I would prefer the 75-85 point physical guy personally and would value him higher.
Agreed, I would also prefer Corey Perry over Kane. It's still close, but yeah, I'm taking Perry.

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Old
05-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I think the issue primarily boils down to is us jet fans generally value bogo and kane as top 10 players in their positions, even though they haven't done that yet.
Yikes. I suggest managing expectations. Talk about overrating your players.

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05-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Yikes. I suggest managing expectations. Talk about overrating your players.
the list of 30 goals at 20 in the modern era is pretty elite company.

It could be overrating, but we've watched alot of evander. his performance would be impressive for a player in his prime, considering how young he is, it's why we value him so high.

edit: fun fact, Corey Perry (who was referenced as a similar but "better" player above took longer to score 30 goals then Evander Kane. I think a part of why others aren't as high on Evander is since he's been in the league for 3 years already, we kind of lose track of how young he is, and how special the numbers he's putting up are in relation to his age.


Last edited by Grind: 05-01-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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Old
05-01-2013, 12:33 PM
  #44
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Eberle + Klefbom + 2013 2nd round pick

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05-01-2013, 12:44 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Eberle + Klefbom + 2013 2nd round pick
LOL no!

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Old
05-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #46
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Something around Kuznetsov +

Kane would be a huge addition to the Caps, I've always felt they needed a Lucic type player up front. Kane is similar in terms of being physical but a better scoring touch.

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05-01-2013, 01:45 PM
  #47
Seanahue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall View Post
Eberle + Klefbom + 2013 2nd round pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by 442 View Post
Something around Kuznetsov +

Kane would be a huge addition to the Caps, I've always felt they needed a Lucic type player up front. Kane is similar in terms of being physical but a better scoring touch.
Why would the Jets do that?

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05-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #48
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LOL no!
If the 2nd will be replaced with 2014 1st, the value is quite realistic. Your players are not worth Malkin/Crosby/Stamkos etc.

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Old
05-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
Why would the Jets do that?
You would really only trade 2 established NHLers to do 1 of the following ....

1: Get younger
2: Change coaching styles / philosophic approach in which your current roster doesn't mesh with.

My statement was to the 1st option, arguably the best prospect not in the NHL, where else would you start with such an approach?

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05-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #50
Seanahue
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Originally Posted by Kulleroinen View Post
If the 2nd will be replaced with 2014 1st, the value is quite realistic. Your players are not worth Malkin/Crosby/Stamkos etc.
I value Kane at the same level as Eberle. Bogosian is worth more that Klefbom and a 2nd.

That package plus a first does not get you Malkin/Crosby/Stamkos BTW.

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