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Old
05-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #76
dulzhok
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Staalberg with a nice setup on the OT GW goal last night.

I don't see how Chicago keeps him. He has to be at least as good of option as Weiss. And hopefully, he can shine brighter when given more of chance offensively.

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05-01-2013, 02:43 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Staalberg with a nice setup on the OT GW goal last night.

I don't see how Chicago keeps him. He has to be at least as good of option as Weiss. And hopefully, he can shine brighter when given more of chance offensively.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

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05-01-2013, 02:49 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Legwand is too good at faceoffs, and too good defensively to move to the wing.

If Weiss is not a 3rd line center, then at best, as with Fisher and Legwand, he's a #2. I just don't see the real upside of signing yet another #2/#3, over-30, center. If we bring in Weiss, it is only as a replacement for Fisher or Legwand, not an addition to, and I feel like the organization has already made the choice to go with the latter two.


While Leggy is good defensive forward his faceoff numbers are not impressive at all. only above 50% one year and career 45% in faceoffs. In his 13 season he has averaged 15 goals a year at center. The one short stint he was on the wing he was productive but injuries forced him back to center. Two seasons above 20 goals in the NHL you could count a prorated third for this past season. He has been the eqvilent of a 3rd line player his whole career but has played 1st line. This has been and still is an issue. All the fans and Trotz think Mr Pred is a 1st liner. Unless this mentality changes the team can't move forward. The current roster does not have a single 1st line player and no Wilson has not proven yet that he is either.

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05-01-2013, 03:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
While Leggy is good defensive forward his faceoff numbers are not impressive at all. only above 50% one year and career 45% in faceoffs. In his 13 season he has averaged 15 goals a year at center. The one short stint he was on the wing he was productive but injuries forced him back to center. Two seasons above 20 goals in the NHL you could count a prorated third for this past season. He has been the eqvilent of a 3rd line player his whole career but has played 1st line. This has been and still is an issue. All the fans and Trotz think Mr Pred is a 1st liner. Unless this mentality changes the team can't move forward. The current roster does not have a single 1st line player and no Wilson has not proven yet that he is either.
Outside the FO% (which Legwand did have a decent year in), I'm not quite sure why this is all in response to my post. I doubt you'll find many of us that actually believe he is a 1st line center, and I am certainly not in that grouping. 3rd line center on a good team, serviceable 2nd on a team lacking center depth. Either way, however, I believe he would be a waste on the wing.

Don't disagree that we need a true 1st line center, but that certainly isn't Stephen Weiss.

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05-01-2013, 03:24 PM
  #80
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I agree Weiss is on the soft side, and he should have much better numbers than what he has put up in Florida his points per year have been ok but he was touted as a real scorer and at 30 his numbers are not much different than what we have been used to and wiull decline over his remaining years.

My response to the Legwand issue was to those who continue to place high value on him. It would be in the Preds best interest if they could move him but theres not much of a chance of that.

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05-01-2013, 03:30 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
While Leggy is good defensive forward his faceoff numbers are not impressive at all. only above 50% one year and career 45% in faceoffs. In his 13 season he has averaged 15 goals a year at center. The one short stint he was on the wing he was productive but injuries forced him back to center. Two seasons above 20 goals in the NHL you could count a prorated third for this past season. He has been the eqvilent of a 3rd line player his whole career but has played 1st line. This has been and still is an issue. All the fans and Trotz think Mr Pred is a 1st liner. Unless this mentality changes the team can't move forward. The current roster does not have a single 1st line player and no Wilson has not proven yet that he is either.
I've not seen a single fan say Legwand is a first liner but what' you've said is true, he's scored at a 15 goal a season average.

His historical goals for is about .22 per game, so if he was healthy all season he would still only average 18 goals. Since the lock-out he's scored on a .25 pace or a 20.5 goals per season pace. Still not first line material, no one here is going to argue with you on that.

I'd argue on the we're better off without him though. Legwand is a good 2 way center, with some decent playmaking abilities, he's not the problem on this team.

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05-01-2013, 03:58 PM
  #82
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At this point Spaling is as good as Legwand defensively Goose is as good and Fish can be as well. Thats the whole issue Trotz has demanded all the centers play this way. It has castrated the offense for the most part. Scoring by committee has been the mantra and when this failed this year the entire house of cards fell apart. The defense early on this year was as good as previous years but when they faltered and the injuries started to pile up it was really hard to watch on any given night.

It did serve to get a look at the young guys and get a true idea where the development was. And this is pertnant to the RFA thread since a couple veterans are needed. May not be thru the F/A signings but one there and a trade is needed bad. If for no other reason than to show the front office wants to get better. Erat was really the only veteran I really wanted to stay here. DP needs to package a defensive center with other parts to go after a 1c that will make an impact on the top 6. Im not saying it must be a first line center either. Trotz has said we have alot of redundant players and this is what I am hoping he is refering to rather than the glut of 4th liners.

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05-01-2013, 04:01 PM
  #83
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Going to have to disagree with you on the Spaling and Goose being as good as Legwand and Fish. It's not even really close on either end.

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05-01-2013, 04:08 PM
  #84
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Even if Spaling is "as good defensively" as Legwand(I dont believe he is), Spaling wont score 20-25 goals. Legwand will.

He was on pace for around 23-24 in a full season, this year.

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05-01-2013, 04:11 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
Even if Spaling is "as good defensively" as Legwand(I dont believe he is), Spaling wont score 20-25 goals. Legwand will.

He was on pace for around 23-24 in a full season, this year.


Really

Legwand has scored 20 goals twice in 13 years. And he is in his decling years, his value is in his defensive ability. He will be lucky to pot 15 in any year he has left before he retires.

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05-01-2013, 04:14 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Really

Legwand has scored 20 goals twice in 13 years. And he is in his decling years, his value is in his defensive ability. He will be lucky to pot 15 in any year he has left before he retires.
Based on what?

He just scored 12 in a half season. In his healthy seasons, he's been at and around 20 goals. And he's 32, not 36.

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05-01-2013, 04:17 PM
  #87
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Based on what?

He just scored 12 in a half season. In his healthy seasons, he's been at and around 20 goals. And he's 32, not 36.

Based on watching this game for over 30 years and seeing the smae thing happen over and over and over. Hes 32 and has maybe 4 more years. this year can't be used for much other than a painful memory.

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05-01-2013, 04:36 PM
  #88
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Stalberg, Horton, Clowe, and Bozak all seem like decent options.

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05-01-2013, 04:44 PM
  #89
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Stalberg is a fringe top 6 forward in top 6 forward's clothing. Fast as hell, great wrist shot, but have a feeling someone is going to drastically overpay for what is essentially Mason Raymond, Part II.

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05-01-2013, 05:34 PM
  #90
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Stalberg is a fringe top 6 forward in top 6 forward's clothing. Fast as hell, great wrist shot, but have a feeling someone is going to drastically overpay for what is essentially Mason Raymond, Part II.
Who knows what will happen if/when he gets on scoringline? He's plays 14 minutes a night. He scored 22 goals goals in 2012 with no PP time / 14 min of icetime.

I'd say worst case scenario is he's a younger version of Legwand, Fisher. Best case scenario is he becomes a adequate scoring-line player.

I think he'll get 4-5m (depends on his playoffs). Move SK and hopefully Gaustad and we can take him on easily. We can take him on even if we don't move those two turds.

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05-01-2013, 05:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Who knows what will happen if/when he gets on scoringline? He's plays 14 minutes a night. He scored 22 goals goals in 2012 with no PP time / 14 min of icetime.

I'd say worst case scenario is he's a younger version of Legwand, Fisher. Best case scenario is he becomes a adequate scoring-line player.

I think he'll get 4-5m (depends on his playoffs). Move SK and hopefully Gaustad and we can take him on easily. We can take him on even if we don't move those two turds.
He's effective precisely because he is used in a limited role, on a team with a ton of offensive weapons and depth. I don't see the purpose in moving a 40-45 pt guy in SK just to make room for a different 40 pt guy in Stalberg, especially at the increase in salary.

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05-01-2013, 06:08 PM
  #92
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Because Stalberg is faster, plays better D, and has a better shot...? SK has awesome playmaking ability and vision, but that isn't what we need right now.

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05-01-2013, 06:17 PM
  #93
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Because Stalberg is faster, plays better D, and has a better shot...? SK has awesome playmaking ability and vision, but that isn't what we need right now.
But they'll give you the same production, and one will come probably $1M-$2M per year cheaper. Stalberg's game is highly insulated by being a role player on a skilled team, enabling him to get better matchups. Expecting him to be a primary offensive option on a less skilled team is going to cause a regression in his numbers. Think Ville Leino or Jiri Hudler, though the latter didn't drop off too much this past season.

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05-01-2013, 08:19 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Based on watching this game for over 30 years and seeing the smae thing happen over and over and over. Hes 32 and has maybe 4 more years. this year can't be used for much other than a painful memory.
Since the lockout Legwand has a scored at a .25 gpg rate including this season. So I'd say chances are next year he's going to be right around that number, which is 20.5 goals in an 82 game season.

Now to some of the other points in this and other threads on this UFA subject.

I also keep seeing blah blah blah won't sign here he'll want to go to a contender. Well that's all good but most of the true contenders are all going to have cap issues.

On SK. He was garbage this year. Lazy uninspired and not productive. I don't know if he'll change and get back to the player he was prior if he doesn't, then he's a decent option for the top 2 lines, I'd rather trade him for someone I know is going to work harder and be as or more productive as he was prior to this season.

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05-02-2013, 12:49 AM
  #95
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He's effective precisely because he is used in a limited role, on a team with a ton of offensive weapons and depth. I don't see the purpose in moving a 40-45 pt guy in SK just to make room for a different 40 pt guy in Stalberg, especially at the increase in salary.
The reason you move SK is because he played like absolute crap this year, and in the 2nd half of 2012. Totally uninspired and just overall terrible. No reason to think that'll improve.

You will have a hard time convincing me that Staalberg who had more points is less ice time is a worse option. It's not like he played with Kane and Toews either.

Sk has to go, with or without Staalberg.

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05-02-2013, 08:11 AM
  #96
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In an awesome world, I'd love to see Vincent Lecavalier bought out and signed by us.

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05-02-2013, 08:17 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
The reason you move SK is because he played like absolute crap this year, and in the 2nd half of 2012. Totally uninspired and just overall terrible. No reason to think that'll improve.

You will have a hard time convincing me that Staalberg who had more points is less ice time is a worse option. It's not like he played with Kane and Toews either.

Sk has to go, with or without Staalberg.
depends on what you can get for him, and how strapped for money we are.

Next year he will be playing for a contract. I suspect he will be more motivated.

If we need the money that would otherwise go to him, then dump him for whatever we can get.

If we cant get anything of value, and we arent in a money crunch, we might as well keep him and see how he does, unless we have already filled all the top 6 slots.

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05-02-2013, 12:20 PM
  #98
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If other teams read SKs value as we do, what is he really worth - a mid-round pick? Wouldn't we be better off just planning on him playing 3rd line and hope we get a little contract-year push outta' him, rather than selling quite so low?

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05-02-2013, 01:03 PM
  #99
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If other teams read SKs value as we do, what is he really worth - a mid-round pick? Wouldn't we be better off just planning on him playing 3rd line and hope we get a little contract-year push outta' him, rather than selling quite so low?
Good point but you either get something for him now or you get nothing for him after next season. If Poile is serious about adding to this team for next season then I would move him now. Clearing the cap space alone will be helpfull if we are going after 2-3 guys in free agency.

I know some say why clear the cap space when we are not even close to the cap right now but if you sign one guy at 4-5m a year and then another at 3-4m a year along with the raise Josi will be getting soon it will start to creap closer and closer to that point. I honestly never want to see the team spend right to the cap. I just want them to start spending close to it (within 3m).

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05-02-2013, 01:20 PM
  #100
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Who knows what will happen if/when he gets on scoringline? He's plays 14 minutes a night. He scored 22 goals goals in 2012 with no PP time / 14 min of icetime.

I'd say worst case scenario is he's a younger version of Legwand, Fisher. Best case scenario is he becomes a adequate scoring-line player.

I think he'll get 4-5m (depends on his playoffs). Move SK and hopefully Gaustad and we can take him on easily. We can take him on even if we don't move those two turds.
I am a huge VS fan and would love to see him here. But I don't think Poile will give him the 4+ mill/year he will get if he hits the market this offseason.

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