HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Thomas Vanek... What to do?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-01-2013, 11:29 AM
  #26
HockeyH3aven
#Flynnsanity
 
HockeyH3aven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I'm sorry, I was talking about Vanek.
I am a complete and utter tool and posted this in the wrong thread...was talking about Sekera.


HockeyH3aven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 11:48 AM
  #27
Wisent42
Registered User
 
Wisent42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Södertälje
Country: Sweden
Posts: 738
vCash: 500
I'd keep Vanek around until next season. See what happens in the off season, what a new coach brings, which players impress in camp, etcetera. You never know. Then, if the season is another bust, trade him at deadline if he wants out. If however the team is a top 8 and showing chemistry, re-sign. I don't mind a long-term contract. As long as it's all about cap, that can be delt to a team needing to add on without actually paying it. Kinda like when Tim Thomas was traded.

And btw: Slap a C on his chest too.

Wisent42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #28
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,017
vCash: 500
We're not 2-3 years away. Trade him for the best future you can get. Probably at the draft.

What I hate is when indecision breeds a lack of options. Then we can say next year sometime, oh, we did the best we could given the lack of options! But really, you have to suspect that trading him while he still has a full year left on the deal is going to get you a much better return that when he's a 3 month rental.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #29
enrothorne
A DJ saved my life
 
enrothorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Downtown Buffalo
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,506
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to enrothorne
Trade him and Miller asap. Show the public, team, media what direction this team CLEARLY has. Too long has it been half assing.

enrothorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 01:10 PM
  #30
Clock
Moderator
 
Clock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 19,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Really? That's weird... because Regier basically said,"re-sign" or "trade"... we are in a rebuild. Theyve admitted it....

the scenario is nothing like the co caps.

He also made a comment recently about how he realized (as if this was some stunning revelation) that you can't let assets of Drury / Briere's calibre just walk without getting anything back.

I'm torn. I lean toward keeping Vanek, but if Darcy can get a big return on him based around young prospects that look like they're going to be sure-things... fine.

Clock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 01:23 PM
  #31
CrankyJay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: Lithuania
Posts: 4,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Really? That's weird... because Regier basically said,"re-sign" or "trade"... we are in a rebuild. Theyve admitted it....

the scenario is nothing like the co caps.

We will see.

This time it might be out of his hands if he's too stubborn to let go of these guys for less than he thinks they're worth in the trade market.

CrankyJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 03:07 PM
  #32
JohnnyDrama21
HFB Partner
 
JohnnyDrama21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cleveland, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 563
vCash: 500
With Vanek publicly stating that he wants no part of a rebuild, I think they need to start shopping him and hope to move him during the draft. Try to scoop up as many picks as they can in what's supposed to be a deep draft.

JohnnyDrama21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 03:10 PM
  #33
Rowley Birkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: England
Posts: 3,121
vCash: 500
Love him as a player, but shop him.

If the return is as good as JP, then I'd pull the trigger - and you would have thought it would be better.

Rowley Birkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 03:30 PM
  #34
AdamsApple
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 162
vCash: 500
Very much against trading him. But... if he wants to move on and won't sign an extension, it would be stupid not to explore the market for him. I'd want more than the return for Pominville. Would take a blue chip prospect + a 1st.

AdamsApple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 03:37 PM
  #35
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,017
vCash: 500
If you don't trade him now, you're just going to end up trading him for less later. Guys don't get more valuable when they have less time left on their contracts.

If you resign him, you're sabotaging your own rebuild. The Sabres aren't 2-3 years away. For this to work, you need to stock the **** up on blue chip prospects, not muddle through with the same roster minus one or two guys and an extra pick here or there. Doing this half-assed is a recipe for spending the next five years in 7-12 place.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 06:37 PM
  #36
krt88
Registered User
 
krt88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to krt88
I definitely offer him a new deal July 1 and make him say no and ask to be traded.


Personally I hope he stays and leads this team.

krt88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 07:38 PM
  #37
hizzoner
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 672
vCash: 500
I do not want to pay Vanek the same money he is now making and certainly not long term. He is a first line winger but he seems to be hurt a lot and cannot win games on his own--how often does he carry the puck in and make his own play to score? I have enjoyed watching him over the years but if we are rebuilding--off he goes. Guys who say I do not want to stay here if the team is not good enough for my liking-instead of sucking it up and saying "we had a bad year and we will be back next year and I want to be part of it"- can kiss my rosy red.......He wants max money so trade him NOW so we can integrate the new player/get the draft pick(s) working on their game for us..If we do not get at least the same as Pominville then keep him and work his ass until the trade deadline and take what we can.

hizzoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 08:46 PM
  #38
5 Minute Major
Registered User
 
5 Minute Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Binghamton, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 500
If Vanek is going to be moved you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO DO IT THIS SUMMER.

Why?

Because he is known to get injured and you just can't take the chance of losing him for nothing by waiting until the deadline and having him being injured when that time comes.

5 Minute Major is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 09:03 PM
  #39
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,017
vCash: 500
If Vanek and Miller are both still Sabres after the draft, Darcy will have put the target on his back. I'm not saying fire him the next day, but get very skeptical. We all know his weakness is hanging on to his own players because they're too precious to let go. Neither one of those guys has any place being on a rebuilding team, this is the deepest draft in years, and their price tags will never be higher. The iron is hot. Every day you get closer to the ends of their contracts is less value in those two.

If he hangs on to them, he puts the pressure on himself to do something brilliant and really rock this rebuild. Because all the conventional wisdom says move your star players and stock up on blue chip prospects while the iron is hot. If he fails to do this and doesn't have a far shrewder plan up his sleeve, I say he's very fireable.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 11:13 PM
  #40
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 5,884
vCash: 500
darcy knows (at least should know) he is out of a job if Miller and Vanek is Drury/briere part Deux.

Miller would be a draft day type of trade.

Vanek--unless Buffalo has their doors blown off in an offer his potential trade probably waits until September.

Have Vanek see what offseason moves are made by the team in who they draft and who they acquire.

a trade would be structured as efffectively a sign and trade to maximize what is coming back.

i would like buffalo to hold onto him because I do not see this team in a 5 yr rebuilding poject. I see them taking a step back next year, then in 2014-15 make significant strides by being more active in the UFA market and making deals to acquire veterans.

I would sign Vanek to a 5 yr contract. What I am not sure on---can the team take the option to take the actual cap hit each year and not the average cap it? If so then his contract is front loaded where Buffalo would have more cap space with a young team. In a couple of years these players will need to be signed...if they could do that I would set it up something like 9,8,5,4.5,4.5 for a 5 yr $31M contract.


Last edited by Djp: 05-01-2013 at 11:18 PM.
Djp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2013, 11:17 PM
  #41
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 5,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
If Vanek and Miller are both still Sabres after the draft, Darcy will have put the target on his back. I'm not saying fire him the next day, but get very skeptical. We all know his weakness is hanging on to his own players because they're too precious to let go. Neither one of those guys has any place being on a rebuilding team, this is the deepest draft in years, and their price tags will never be higher. The iron is hot. Every day you get closer to the ends of their contracts is less value in those two.

If he hangs on to them, he puts the pressure on himself to do something brilliant and really rock this rebuild. Because all the conventional wisdom says move your star players and stock up on blue chip prospects while the iron is hot. If he fails to do this and doesn't have a far shrewder plan up his sleeve, I say he's very fireable.
I would agree with you if this was when the season started. Miller is more likely to go first.

the problem with Vanek is that they cant discuss contract with him until July 1st. If they are assured that he will get an extension with the club he is dealt they will get alot more back than if the team accepts the chance of this behind a 1 yr rental.

the only way they move Vanek is if its a WOW! offer for him.

Djp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:03 AM
  #42
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 26,954
vCash: 500
He won't sign a short term deal, and won't sign a long term deal here, based on his comments. Though I flip flop on this very issue almost daily - like I do in trying to assess Ennis - I am of the current mindset that trading him for the best package around the draft would be best. Ideally, I think I would be okay asking him to sign a longer term deal under the premise of being "the franchise," and I'd be okay with pairing the captaincy to him in such a scenario ... But his days seem numbered.

Scenario: you get offers for Vanek, but they're just a bit less than what you'd want or expect. You also convince Vanek to reup here, but he does so only for a five or six year deal. Do you take the package, which despite being less than what you initially wanted, will still be a nice haul? Or do you sign him for five years during a time period where the team's real chance to contend may come at the end of his time as a dynamic goal scorer?

jBuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:04 AM
  #43
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Step 1: Tell him he's under contract and stuck with us.
Step 2: Fill next year's team with youth and AHL prospects.
Step 3: Throw him under the bus for skating around the opposing blue line looking like he hates his teammates (more than usual anyway).
Step 4: Lowball him with $4.5M per. (Best part is some people here probably think that's what he should make.)
Step 5: Watch p-o-ed Vanek walk to team and fanbase that wants him.
Step 6: Extra motivated Vanek has good coach and real center, wins cup.
Step 7: Celebrate getting as close to the cup as we'll ever get.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:04 AM
  #44
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 26,954
vCash: 500
I think the overriding feeling that can't be underplayed is that we need to do something with him this offseason. I don't want him walking for nothing, and I believe that - unlike some others - his value will be higher this offseason than at the deadline next year, where teams would see that we want to get tangible assets for him before we lose him for nothing.

jBuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:07 AM
  #45
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
I would keep him even if that means overpaying. With a new coach, Vanek might not necessarily be used in his current role of here, go die in front of the net, which would cut down on the nagging injuries that plague him every season. He's worth more than he makes and you don't build a contender by firesaling ALL known quantities of talent.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:11 AM
  #46
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 26,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
I would keep him even if that means overpaying. With a new coach, Vanek might not necessarily be used in his current role of here, go die in front of the net, which would cut down on the nagging injuries that plague him every season. He's worth more than he makes and you don't build a contender by firesaling ALL known quantities of talent.
I've touched on this before, but we have no way to quantify that his nagging injuries are a direct result of being in front of the net.

Also, by telling him to do something else, you're taking away an effective part of his game that few are as good at as he is. He is a mastermind in front; the deflections he produces, the hands with the puck in right spaces, and so on, I don't understand why you'd remove him from an area that's conducive to his scoring success.

jBuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:16 AM
  #47
clumping platelets
Registered User
 
clumping platelets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Clumptowaga
Country: United States
Posts: 1,548
vCash: 500


F Vanek at $3 million cap
2nd 2013 (STL)




D B. Smith
F Sheahan
1st 2013
cond 2014


Last edited by clumping platelets: 05-02-2013 at 02:23 AM.
clumping platelets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:18 AM
  #48
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I've touched on this before, but we have no way to quantify that his nagging injuries are a direct result of being in front of the net.

Also, by telling him to do something else, you're taking away an effective part of his game that few are as good at as he is. He is a mastermind in front; the deflections he produces, the hands with the puck in right spaces, and so on, I don't understand why you'd remove him from an area that's conducive to his scoring success.
We, no, the team and the trainers that know exactly what he injured and how, yes. It's a reasonable suggestion reinforced by some of the injuries we do know about.

I don't understand why you isolated only the negative in changing his style of play. It's not like those things are gone and there is nothing to replace them.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:30 AM
  #49
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 10,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
We, no, the team and the trainers that know exactly what he injured and how, yes. It's a reasonable suggestion reinforced by some of the injuries we do know about.

I don't understand why you isolated only the negative in changing his style of play. It's not like those things are gone and there is nothing to replace them.
And for every injury you can point to that happened "in front of the net" ... I can find one that happened in open ice or along the boards or on the defensive end...

Beerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-02-2013, 02:31 AM
  #50
wunderpanda
Sabretage
 
wunderpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,316
vCash: 500
Personally I want him to re-sign here.

Rationally, we need to train him, just like we traded Mogilny and Pomer. Don't want the team locked into a situation like Brad Richards and the Rangers or scrambling like the Flames with Iginla. (same with Miller)

Maybe Darcy picks up a good free agent of 3, maybe we get a break out year from some prospects and it all gels. But unless that happens, Vanek is 1 of a handful of legitimate NHL players on the squad and likely won't accept staying anyway.

wunderpanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.