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What The Hell Happened To...The Colorado Avalanche?

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Old
05-01-2013, 04:52 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by rschile View Post
yea that's called fleeced I have a friend who's an avs fan and he was obviously disappointed stewart was a breaking out power forward and shattenkirk was breaking out offensive dman, theres no logic they must of thought their team was actually supposed to do something that year and then decided to rebuild with worse prospects I guess. They should get the most credit for the team st. Louis is today. And I just read they could of got sobotka instead of mcclement.
Not that this is the thread for it, but the Avs traded Shattenkirk because they thought Elliott and Barrie where a year closer to being ready than they actually were, and Manbearpig's streaky play and work ethic is why the team was cool trading him. Getting a big first pairing Dman who can shutdown top tier players, a great PK and bottom 6 C in McClement, and the 11th overall pick for those two and a second rounder is just fine with this avs fan. Not everyone likes that trade, but it's no where near "fleeced" The Quincey-Downie-1st rounder trade was a fleecing of detroit, the Winnik+Gali for Sgar+McGinn trade was a fleecing. The EJ trade? We got too much while giving up too little to call it a fleecing.

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05-01-2013, 05:13 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by skip2mybordeleau View Post
mcclement not gettting re-signed was a bad thing for the avs, rumor was we offered him around 2.5 a year to stay but he chose to go play close to home for less. can't hate us for him making that decision.

sobotka hadn't even played a year for the blues at that point they were just feeling him out , who knew he would be as solid as he was back then, who knows, who even know's if the blues felt adamant in moving him, hitchcock clearly seems to like him.

how about mcginn, parenteau , hunwick(to an extent) there are some redeeming qualities there.

you like to nit pick uncertainties that can't be determined until you have your hindsight.
Well, with McClement, you don't just trade for a piece of some value (which he was) without a reasonable chance of bringing him back. They should have done their research to know that he didn't want to stay in colorado.

With Sobotka, I'm not sure what you are talking about, since hitchcock wasn't even in St. L when that trade happened. And even if you didn't know what a player Sobotka would have turned out, they would have been much better off getting someone who couldn't just bolt via UFA. Sobotka today would have looked great in a top-9 role on the Av today, especially since he can play both center and wing (and would have taken the sting out of losing RoR if they so choose).

Mcginn Parenteau, etc are decent players, but they are mere replacements for players that should have been there, such as Mueller, Flash, that they severely mismanaged.

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05-01-2013, 05:17 PM
  #103
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You just did.



Well done my friend!

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05-01-2013, 05:18 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Landeskog, Parenteau, McGinn, Downie and Jones with Sgar and Hishon in the AHL...seems pretty solid along the wings to me, with two top line wingers, two quality second liners and Jones who's a streaky borderline second line guy.
Landeskog was a pick that you would have made (just having traded Stewart), even if a blind squirrel was your head scout; it does nothing of credit to the management's decisions. Parenteau and McGinn were essentially lucky breaks that happened given others before them did not pan out (Mueller, Fleischman, etc). It's far from certain whether Downie would be able to fully recover from his injuries; he is turning into the next glass man in the NHL. Hishon & company are still minor leaguers at this point, and has not shown enough to prove that they are NHL regulars.

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05-01-2013, 05:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My dream scenario for FA has the Avs signing Scuderi at which point we can go into next season with:
Scuderi - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Wilson - Jones

With O'Brien coming in for Wilson when he gets hurt, or Elliott coming in if Jones has made his way onto a higher pairing, something like
Barrie - EJ / Scuderi - EJ
Scuderi - Seth / Barrie - Seth
Hejda - Elliott
That would definitely be a decent looking defence (possibly very good depending on how the young'uns play).

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05-01-2013, 05:24 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, with McClement, you don't just trade for a piece of some value (which he was) without a reasonable chance of bringing him back. They should have done their research to know that he didn't want to stay in colorado.

With Sobotka, I'm not sure what you are talking about, since hitchcock wasn't even in St. L when that trade happened. And even if you didn't know what a player Sobotka would have turned out, they would have been much better off getting someone who couldn't just bolt via UFA. Sobotka today would have looked great in a top-9 role on the Av today, especially since he can play both center and wing (and would have taken the sting out of losing RoR if they so choose).

Mcginn Parenteau, etc are decent players, but they are mere replacements for players that should have been there, such as Mueller, Flash, that they severely mismanaged.
McGinn is way better than Mueller, and Parenteau is a lot better than Flash. You are totally wrong IMO.

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05-01-2013, 05:29 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, with McClement, you don't just trade for a piece of some value (which he was) without a reasonable chance of bringing him back. They should have done their research to know that he didn't want to stay in colorado.

With Sobotka, I'm not sure what you are talking about, since hitchcock wasn't even in St. L when that trade happened. And even if you didn't know what a player Sobotka would have turned out, they would have been much better off getting someone who couldn't just bolt via UFA. Sobotka today would have looked great in a top-9 role on the Av today, especially since he can play both center and wing (and would have taken the sting out of losing RoR if they so choose).

Mcginn Parenteau, etc are decent players, but they are mere replacements for players that should have been there, such as Mueller, Flash, that they severely mismanaged.
hahaha so much fail here. Mueller couldnt stay healthy and was always one concussion away from it being all over. They had to let him go. Flash had a condition which apparently doesnt help in altitude had to be let go. The Avs replaced them with PAP and Mcginn both guys have been pretty good for the Avs.

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05-01-2013, 07:38 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Landeskog was a pick that you would have made (just having traded Stewart), even if a blind squirrel was your head scout; it does nothing of credit to the management's decisions. Parenteau and McGinn were essentially lucky breaks that happened given others before them did not pan out (Mueller, Fleischman, etc). It's far from certain whether Downie would be able to fully recover from his injuries; he is turning into the next glass man in the NHL. Hishon & company are still minor leaguers at this point, and has not shown enough to prove that they are NHL regulars.
Nice, so when the avs do something good its cause they're lucky, and when something doesn't work it's cause they're incompetent. Good to know what the standard is, and that it's not possible that Sherman gave up valuable pieces that he either already had replacements in the pipeline for or had some in mind, for valuable pieces that the team lacked.

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05-01-2013, 07:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
What happened to Avs? This guy happened.....



May god have mercy on their souls....

He's really turning the Rams around quickly. Maybe he likes football better than hockey?

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05-01-2013, 08:29 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My dream scenario for FA has the Avs signing Scuderi at which point we can go into next season with:
Scuderi - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Wilson - Jones

With O'Brien coming in for Wilson when he gets hurt, or Elliott coming in if Jones has made his way onto a higher pairing, something like
Barrie - EJ / Scuderi - EJ
Scuderi - Seth / Barrie - Seth
Hejda - Elliott
In a couple years we could have something like:

EJ- Jones
Siemens- Wilson
Barrie- Elliot/Hunwick

With O'Brien, Hejda, and Hunwick/Elliot still available. So when you think about it is actually a very good D-core.

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05-01-2013, 08:31 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by thevil View Post
In a couple years we could have something like:

EJ- Jones
Siemens- Wilson
Barrie- Elliot/Hunwick

With O'Brien, Hejda, and Hunwick/Elliot still available. So when you think about it is actually a very good D-core.
I live in Saskatoon and have seen Siemens play over 50 times the last two years. He is looking more like a bust than a potential top four defencemen.

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Old
05-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo

b) Can't speak for others, but I'll take ROR over the #6 pick.
I agree yet disagree.

I agree on the count that ROR will be better for us to push for the playoffs next year.

But with the #6 pick we could get a Monahan, or a Nurse, or a Shinkaruk. And in 3 years any three of those could possibly help much more than ROR. Especially Nurse because with him, in three years, we would have a filthy D-core.

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05-01-2013, 08:54 PM
  #113
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What's funny is that Edmonton did the same yet Edmonton gets bashed like no tomorrow yet Colorado is ok to rebuild...
Having the first overall pick 3 years in a row isn't rebuilding - its sucking.

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05-01-2013, 09:11 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ThankYouBasedGod View Post
I live in Saskatoon and have seen Siemens play over 50 times the last two years. He is looking more like a bust than a potential top four defencemen.
Alright Mr. pro scout, who are we're supposed to believe. You "pro scout that no one has ever heard of" or "Renegade Styling" who has seen Siemens play 250 times of his 252 career?

Then you have me who has seen him a good 60 times his last three years. I can't speak for RS, but I can say he's FAR from bust worthy (LOL) and looking like a solid #3 defenseman.

Try harder.

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05-01-2013, 09:15 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Having the first overall pick 3 years in a row isn't rebuilding - its sucking.
I know that there is a ton of hate against Edmonton for this. But I don't think they tanked to the degree people are saying to get three 1st picks in a row. Remember that last year they actually were second last next to Columbus.... (I know still crappy). But they were absolutely destroyed by the demands of Pronger on the top of having to pay ridiculous salaries to average players after a cup run. The GM-ing was horrible, but they were in a bad position.....

I don't understand why every one says Edmonton is the worst team and how they are tanking and how this shouldn't be allowed blah blah, when Pittsburgh drafted 1st-2nd-1st-2nd four years in a row. Thats WORSE than what Edmonton did, especially considering that 2 of those players ended up being 2 of the best players in the world currently.

But yeah, I can understand why people are super annoyed with select people in our fanbase that keep raving about dynasties to come...

That being said, I'm excited to see what Colorado ends up looking like in the next 2-3 years. With Duchene, Landeskog, Jones, ROR, they will be in good position.

I think we could see a great Col - Edm rivalry which would be great.

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05-01-2013, 09:19 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by cpsman View Post
I know that there is a ton of hate against Edmonton for this. But I don't think they tanked to the degree people are saying to get three 1st picks in a row. Remember that last year they actually were second last next to Columbus.... (I know still crappy). But they were absolutely destroyed by the demands of Pronger on the top of having to pay ridiculous salaries to average players after a cup run. The GM-ing was horrible, but they were in a bad position.....

I don't understand why every one says Edmonton is the worst team and how they are tanking and how this shouldn't be allowed blah blah, when Pittsburgh drafted 1st-2nd-1st-2nd four years in a row. Thats WORSE than what Edmonton did, especially considering that 2 of those players ended up being 2 of the best players in the world currently.

But yeah, I can understand why people are super annoyed with select people in our fanbase that keep raving about dynasties to come...

That being said, I'm excited to see what Colorado ends up looking like in the next 2-3 years. With Duchene, Landeskog, Jones, ROR, they will be in good position.

I think we could see a great Col - Edm rivalry which would be great.
I wouldn't really count winning the Crosby lottery as sucking tho...

Col - Edm will never have a rivalry.

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05-01-2013, 09:25 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
What happened to Avs? This guy happened.....



May god have mercy on their souls....
I can't believe this is a
Real picture. He looks like a
Cross between a cartoon villain who ties people to railway tracks and a messed up Ron burgandy

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05-01-2013, 09:56 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, with McClement, you don't just trade for a piece of some value (which he was) without a reasonable chance of bringing him back. They should have done their research to know that he didn't want to stay in colorado.

With Sobotka, I'm not sure what you are talking about, since hitchcock wasn't even in St. L when that trade happened. And even if you didn't know what a player Sobotka would have turned out, they would have been much better off getting someone who couldn't just bolt via UFA. Sobotka today would have looked great in a top-9 role on the Av today, especially since he can play both center and wing (and would have taken the sting out of losing RoR if they so choose).

Mcginn Parenteau, etc are decent players, but they are mere replacements for players that should have been there, such as Mueller, Flash, that they severely mismanaged.
There was a reasonable chance of bringing him back. It's true that McClement wanted to go play closer to his hometown, but at the same time there was no indication he was going to do that at a very discounted price until FA came around. Plenty of players say they'd love to play close to home, not many actually do though.

Also, the mere replacements for Mueller and Flash are completely off base, and this is coming from someone who thought we should've retained both. Mueller was let go because he wasn't healthy for almost 2 years with the Avs. PAP wasn't brought in to replace Mueller, he was brought in to replace a void in the top 6. You can't say they were replacements when the Avs played without both of them for a significant amount of time.

Add that to the fact that the players they traded (Hannan, Wolski) both have severely declined, the trades are a win; or at the very least, a wash.

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05-01-2013, 09:58 PM
  #119
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Wow, what a heinous, terrible excuse for an owner. Caring about making a profit for his team...shame on him!
No, you misunderstood.......it's making profits ON his team.

Also, unless your name is Manchester United, New York Yankees or Dallas Cowboys, you don't make much profit (if any) owning professional sports team.

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05-02-2013, 12:49 AM
  #120
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I think the main problem people have with Oilers is that they don't try to address their problems but keeps doing minor trades, sign players like Eager and Belanger and completely put everything on the shoulders of their kids. I hope MacTavish was genuine when he said he will be aggressive, because their needs can't be fixed only through drafting.
I wonder if they went after Ray Whitney at all last offseason. He was brought to Dallas to do exactly that - take some pressure off younger guys as well as be an example of how to be a pro.

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05-02-2013, 01:32 AM
  #121
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The only problem that this team has is that the Kroenke's are amongst the worst owners in professional sports. If there was some way the Avs could find an owner who cared, then that owner would actually care about the hockey related moves, and can Lacroix within the first minute of purchasing the team. Things would only go up from there

Unfortunately, that won't happen because Kroenke is so dumb he pretty much forgets that he even owns the Avs, so does his son Josh

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05-02-2013, 02:14 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Some of these do play into it quite a bit. I remember a few years ago where they had an almost miracle run lead by Statsny that almost went from dead last to knocking the Flames out of a playoff spot. I thought for sure that they are a team on the rise. But so far there has been zero to no results since then.

The wierd thing is that their entire organization has this wierd obsession (and also a good part of their fan-base) of getting as many quality centers as possible, at the detriment of basically every other position. Now they are still very strong down the middle, but have to call players like Jones a top winger. Their D is especially neglected, with the only significant thing done to bolster in the last few years being the Johnson trade, which turned out to be somewhat of a flop (at least not what they hoped). Not really sure where they go from here except a serious firesale in the off-season to rebuild from scratch.
Colorado has acquired their C depth through the draft. It hasn't been to the detriment of other positions. Before O'Reilly signed, Colorado was spending a little over 10 million on centres, not exactly a kings ransom. If anything their spending on defense recently has set them back at other positions. Trading for Foote, signing Hejda, Zanon, and O'Brien to more than they are worth and giving a lot of time to O'Byrne and Hunwick.
The lack of true number one wingers has been the fault of the organization not putting good players there, not because C depth is important.

A firesale at this point would be moronic and there isn't really anything there to 'firesale' anyways. A trade or two maybe, but the core is being set and with Hejduk probably retiring and David Jones hopefully being relegated to the 3rd line for good (or bought out) Colorado will be forced to fill a hole at RW.

It's not like the wings are completely lacking anymore anyways.
Parenteau, Downie, McGinn, Landeskog can all play 18-20 minutes a night at least.
They really need to give a chance to the youth to take spots on the roster next year.
Malone and Vincour should be on the team and some energy can hopefully be brought for good instead of relying on career minor leaguers to fill out holes on the bottom two lines.

EDIT: I've read a few more of your posts. It looks like you have absolutely no clue what is going on in Colorado and who has been working for them and who hasn't.

Mueller and Fleischmann couldn't be mismanaged. Mueller has a concussion history longer than most professional boxers and Fleischmann has a blood disease or something that makes playing at high altitudes a problem for him. Issues that could not be avoided. Parenteau has done more in his year with Colorado than Mueller or Fleischmann could do in three years for the team with their problems. If you have no idea what has actually been happening on the team, don't write paragraphs illuminating your ignorance. It's a waste of everyone's, especially your, time.


Last edited by Holyhell: 05-02-2013 at 02:20 AM.
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05-02-2013, 03:41 AM
  #123
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http://thefarmclub.net/2013/04/30/wh...ado-avalanche/

Not only does it feel like it's been forever since they've been relevant but I suddenly feel old as fug for fondly remembering their run in the 90s.
Watching them from quit some distance, I've always felt like they had a natrual tough period after some tremendous years, and that they've for a long time took the right decisions and slowely built up a team.

But, I've definitely missed the dot over the i so to speak lately. They have Johnson. They have Duchene. They have Landeskog. They are not Sid or Malkin, but they also have a ton of cap space.

If they made a big splash on the UFA market and went out of and got like the top 2 players available, they would be really interesting. But to my suprise, they never even seem to be in the mix. Maybe it will come? Whats the talk in Colorado anyway?

Quote:
A firesale at this point would be moronic and there isn't really anything there to 'firesale' anyways.
Yeah, I think a firesale would be moronic too. I mean, they have the cap space to add alot of pieces, and they already have several core pieces.


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05-02-2013, 04:22 AM
  #124
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What The Hell Happened To...The Colorado Avalanche?
Same what happened to every poor team- poor coaching, managing and decision making. Its not rocket science, really...

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05-02-2013, 08:52 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Having the first overall pick 3 years in a row isn't rebuilding - its sucking.
So the Nordiques didn't amount to anything?

There was a really crappy team that picked 1/2/1/2 over a four year span a few years back as well. How'd that work out?

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