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#3 Overall Pick + for a #1 Defenseman

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Old
05-01-2013, 05:15 PM
  #51
couture23
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Subban for Hedman AND 3rd overall? He's definitely worth the 3rd overall but hell no to Hedman, he's severely underrated here because he doesn't annually put up 40+ points.

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05-01-2013, 05:47 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Subban for Hedman AND 3rd overall? He's definitely worth the 3rd overall but hell no to Hedman, he's severely underrated here because he doesn't annually put up 40+ points.
He will next season me thinks.

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Old
05-01-2013, 06:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
I am guessing you didn't see Hedman in that post.
Yeah didn't...sorry for that.

Anyways, Edler for 3rd overall?

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Old
05-01-2013, 06:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by oilwings View Post
What??? you've already given up on Murray, the so call 'franchise dman' of the 2012 draft? The dman the Oilers should've taken with the #1 pick over Yakupov?
You don't pick in the draft based on need. Needs can easily change within the 3-5 years it takes most players to develop to the point where they can make an impact at the NHL level (look at the Price pick as a great example). IF you are going to draft on need... you wait until the later rounds, unless there's a tie with the BPA at which point need could enter into the equation.

As to whether a team has given up on Murray... that's not really the case. They'd be trading what they (and most others) believe should be a franchise D in return for what should be a franchise forward. For a team that has a bunch of D prospects, and a deep (and expensive) NHL D core, they would be making a positional change. Trading from a position of strength for a position of weekness.

But there was never any debate in Yakupov and Murray. If you wanted Murray, you trade down a spot and get additional assets.

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05-01-2013, 07:14 PM
  #55
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How does Brent Seabrook sound? Outside of his (long) passing skills and heavy shot (that's woefully errant) he's vastly overrated (IMO). With Kane/Toews due for raises soon, valuable UFAs in Bickell and Stalberg hitting the market this summer, additional money/a raise needed for Nick Leddy, and a desire find a 2C I'd definitely field some offers.

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05-01-2013, 08:15 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
How does Brent Seabrook sound? Outside of his (long) passing skills and heavy shot (that's woefully errant) he's vastly overrated (IMO). With Kane/Toews due for raises soon, valuable UFAs in Bickell and Stalberg hitting the market this summer, additional money/a raise needed for Nick Leddy, and a desire find a 2C I'd definitely field some offers.
Quite a sell job there!

The #3 wouldn't be involved, but it's possible something could be done with prospects.

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05-01-2013, 08:28 PM
  #57
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As to the Edler talks I would not add anything additional if I were Van...Edler for number 3 overall...The chances of that pick being better then Edler or any other top pairing dman are slim.

Tampa fans are you looking for a number 1 or just a top pairing guy? Cause you are probably not gonna get a real number 1 but you could get a top pairing type of dman.

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05-01-2013, 09:22 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
95% chance this is what we'll see.

I've said this on the Tampa board, but I'm looking at Phoenix and Tampa Bay as trade partners this summer. Both have good foundation with a little tweaking to do to get back in it, and the Yotes are covered in D options the way TB is covered in offense.

Not to mention, the orgs are getting a first hand look at each other's prospects as their AHL teams are facing off in the playoffs. TB's Syracuse is up 2-0 on PHX's Portland.

Are there any Yotes fans who could weigh in on what kind of Purcell/Connolly/whatever else from TB or Syracuse you'd be looking at to consider a deal for some of your defense?
I can think of a couple of scenarios
the one that stands out is Connolly for Rundblad - a couple of prospects ready for the NHL
I don't see TB willing to trade for what it would take to get Keith Yandle, but I can see them having some interest in Derek Morris
The Yotes on the other hand should have interest in one of their goalies, and of course, the 3rd pick as well as the Lightning having interest in the Coyote's 12th pick (RISTOLAINEN, PULOCK)

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05-01-2013, 09:33 PM
  #59
Butchered
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There was quite a bit of nice discussion during the last offseason about Phoenix and TB being good trading partners. I'd be interested in A Connolly deal but I'd prefer Gormley over Rundblad.

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05-01-2013, 09:44 PM
  #60
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There was quite a bit of nice discussion during the last offseason about Phoenix and TB being good trading partners. I'd be interested in A Connolly deal but I'd prefer Gormley over Rundblad.
I don't see why the Lightning would want Gormley, considering how deep they are on the left side and the Coyotes would want a better return. Rundblad seems a better fit. But I don't blame you wanting Gormley over Rundblad, he is the best player of the 3.

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05-01-2013, 10:12 PM
  #61
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Would Colorado trade Erik Johnson to stack up in this draft?

Who else even has a top 2 d man to spare? Maybe St Louis could move one of their top RD.

You'd have to give a lot who ever it was at no 3 but Drouin looks very dynamic.

Could more see TB trading down to 5-8 or something. That might be more like a top 4 d and pick. Lots more options there.

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05-01-2013, 10:21 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by oilwings View Post
What??? you've already given up on Murray, the so call 'franchise dman' of the 2012 draft? The dman the Oilers should've taken with the #1 pick over Yakupov?
Who said anything about giving up? The CBJ defense not only looked extremely good this season, but also has an increasingly deep pipeline. The most pressing need is for high-end scoring forwards, which exist at the top of the 2013 draft, and the position of the greatest strength in the CBJ organization is defensemen (and high-end defensemen are in short supply this draft).

It has nothing to do with "giving up on" at all.

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05-01-2013, 10:26 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Legitimate #1 defencemen are very very rarely available via trade.

I think you could get a legitimate top pairing defenceman, a guy like Girardi, Bygulian, Enstrom, Yandle, etc (one team or the other may have to add), but guys like Weber, Pietrangelo, Suter, Karlsson, Keith, Doughty, OEL, etc etc simply aren't going to be traded.

Who was the last legitimate #1 D to get traded (who wasn't on an expiring contract)? Campbell, Bouwmeester, Burns, etc are the closest I can think of, but they fall in the same category as the Byfgulian/Yandle/etc guys. Top pairing Dmen, but not necessarily solid #1s.
This is right on, #1 Dmen rarely get traded as good as the #3 pick is this year, I doubt that trend is broken.

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05-01-2013, 10:29 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
As to the Edler talks I would not add anything additional if I were Van...Edler for number 3 overall...The chances of that pick being better then Edler or any other top pairing dman are slim.

Tampa fans are you looking for a number 1 or just a top pairing guy? Cause you are probably not gonna get a real number 1 but you could get a top pairing type of dman.
Given Cap considerations and how Edler seems to have stalled in his development, a top pairing guy but not a real stud #1, I doubt TB would do the 3rd pick straight up for Edler.

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05-02-2013, 01:10 AM
  #65
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Vinny + 3rd for Weber + ?

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05-02-2013, 07:39 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
I don't see why the Lightning would want Gormley, considering how deep they are on the left side and the Coyotes would want a better return. Rundblad seems a better fit. But I don't blame you wanting Gormley over Rundblad, he is the best player of the 3.
How is Gormley the best player of the 3? You also want a better return than just Connolly. We could've drafted Gormley instead of Connolly but didn't, I don't see where Gormley became more valuable. We also don't need a PMD who's still a prospect as we have Barberio and Koekkoek in the system.

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05-02-2013, 09:53 AM
  #67
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How about Keith Yandle + Phoenix's first and a mid level forward prospect to Tampa for the #3 pick?

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05-02-2013, 09:55 AM
  #68
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How about Keith Yandle + Phoenix's first and a mid level forward prospect to Tampa for the #3 pick?
I'm a Tampa fan and that's an overpayment to me.

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05-02-2013, 10:16 AM
  #69
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How about Keith Yandle + Phoenix's first and a mid level forward prospect to Tampa for the #3 pick?
Tampa better be adding a bottle of lube. Jesus.

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05-02-2013, 10:37 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by oilwings View Post
What??? you've already given up on Murray, the so call 'franchise dman' of the 2012 draft? The dman the Oilers should've taken with the #1 pick over Yakupov?
Getting passed your douchy statement - more of an issue that CLM would be looking for a game-breaker up front and already has a very good defensive core. Obviously adding Murrary would help that, but they probably need a difference maker up front more.

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05-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #71
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Would we get even close with Orlov+WSH 1st? Another pick or a winger could be added..

No? Fine..

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05-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I'm a Tampa fan and that's an overpayment to me.
Tampa fans are undervaluing the 3rd overall pick in this thread. You guys can get a lot for that pick.. It is worth a lot more than Gormley\Yandle etc..
McKinnon\Drouin have franchise level potential.

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05-02-2013, 10:45 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I think you'd still see Ballard shipped out too if Roy can be retained. The D if both Ballard and Edler were gone would look something like this:

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Tanev
Alberts - Corrado

With Alberts and Corrado only representing any cheap, under $1.5M, depth defenseman we could get.

This is still pretty good and I believe the Canucks would move Edler for a #3 overall level pick because we will soon be in a talent crunch with both Sedins getting older.

I would not add our 1st + Edler to get the #3 overall though since Elder probably represents a pretty high watermark for what a #3 pick could become...looking at #3 overall picks (skipping the last 5 since they haven't fully developed and going back 15 years) we have:

2007 Kyle Turris (worse)
2006 Jonathan Toews (much better)
2005 Jack Johnson (worse)
2004 Cam Barker (much worse)
2003 Nathan Horton (even)
2002 Jay Bouwmeester (even)
2001 Alexandr Svitov (much worse)
2000 Marian Gaborik (much better)
1999 Henrik Sedin (much better)
1998 Brad Stuart (worse)
1997 Olli Jokinen (worse)
1996 J.P. Dumont (worse)
1995 Aki-Petteri Berg (much worse)
1994 Radek Bonk (worse)
1993 Chris Gratton (worse)

You have in total:
-4 x much worse
-7 x worse
-2 x even
-3 x much better
How is Olli Jokenin worse? This is a guy who in his prime was getting almost 40 goals and 90 points.

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05-02-2013, 10:53 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Tampa fans are undervaluing the 3rd overall pick in this thread. You guys can get a lot for that pick.. It is worth a lot more than Gormley\Yandle etc..
McKinnon\Drouin have franchise level potential.
Top picks almost never get moved for a reason. Because somebody with a top pick with a fairly legitimate shot at getting a franchise player isn't going to move it for a "quantity" package unless it's a big overpayment.

And somebody with a proven franchise player isn't going to trade that for a pick, just to have a shot at getting a franchise player...

The 3rd overall would have to be part of a package to get a franchise defenceman, but since seemingly no franchise defencemen are available, it's a moot point anyways (they only seem to get moved when THAT team makes them available for whatever reason, not when a team in need comes a calling).

And then for TB to get a top pairing guy like Yandle for example, they wouldn't move the 3rd overall. They would move a package of good pieces (think Purcell + Vasilevski for example, or Connolly + Purcell), but not the 3rd overall. Because you don't trade a piece that has a decent shot at being a franchise player for a proven not-quite franchise player.

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05-02-2013, 11:35 AM
  #75
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How is Olli Jokenin worse? This is a guy who in his prime was getting almost 40 goals and 90 points.
He's not. Classic what have you done for me lately lately due to Jokinen's post 30 decline.

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