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Danes to DEL - SEL depletion

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:29 AM
  #26
Justinov
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Originally Posted by andersej View Post
You do hear Danish spoken at the arena occasionally, but my guess is that most of those Danes are living permanently on the Swedish side of the bridge. For the big games, maybe 10 - 20 Danes will be headed with me on the train back to Copenhagen, but on some nights, it's more like one or two - who might not even have been at the game. Some may be commuting by car of course, but I suspect the number is in single digit in terms of regular attendees / season ticket holders living on the Danish side.

Hardly what Percy Nilsson envisioned, but he of course expected them to be in the SEL on a regular basis. Still, if you're a hockey fan living in the Copenhagen area, you owe it to yourself to go check it out. It's also a great introduction to the game for newbies. It's just a 'bigger' experience to watch a game in a modern almost-NHL sized arena with all the sound/visual effects compared to Rødovre... or Herlev
Great info! So you are one of an elite bunch.
Malmö has really had a hard time getting back to SEL and seem to disappoint very year.. But whether Malmö plays in Allsvenskan or SEL would it really change the Danish supporter numbers significantly??
I think you would need an "Øresund team" in SEL with arena at the Copenhagen side to boost numbers. It seems the Swedes are more willing to cross west of the bridge than Danes are willing to cross east! So who knows...probably wont work. Fanbase are with all likelihood tied to much to Malmö for moving the club over the bridge.

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05-01-2013, 08:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
Great info! So you are one of an elite bunch.
Malmö has really had a hard time getting back to SEL and seem to disappoint very year.. But whether Malmö plays in Allsvenskan or SEL would it really change the Danish supporter numbers significantly??
I think you would need an "Øresund team" in SEL with arena at the Copenhagen side to boost numbers. It seems the Swedes are more willing to cross west of the bridge than Danes are willing to cross east! So who knows...probably wont work. Fanbase are with all likelihood tied to much to Malmö for moving the club over the bridge.

More like a crazy few. I doubt it would change the numbers a whole lot, but I guess for the uninitiated it sounds a lot better to be in the top flight. In terms of actual level of play, a top Allsvenskan team is often more than a match for a (demoralised) bottom SEL team - as witnessed by the success rate of the Allsvenskan teams in the promotion playoffs in recent years. It seems that every season at least one and sometimes two Allsvenskan teams gains promotion, relegating one or two SEL teams in the process.

I don't see any scenario where Malmö moves the team to Copenhagen. The interest is so much higher on the Swedish side that it would be a huge risk to move to Copenhagen. Also, the arena in Malmö is bigger than the one planned in Ørestad. It's more likely that Copenhagen gains a KHL team. That might draw some Swedes. Come for the hockey - stay for the beer! They would need a sponsorship deal in the 8-10 million Euro a year range a la Saxo Bank. Might be worth it for someone like Carlsberg or another company with a presence in Russia. KHL newcomers Zagreb is reported to work with a player salary of 10 million Euros.

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05-02-2013, 07:22 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by andersej View Post
More like a crazy few. I doubt it would change the numbers a whole lot, but I guess for the uninitiated it sounds a lot better to be in the top flight. In terms of actual level of play, a top Allsvenskan team is often more than a match for a (demoralised) bottom SEL team - as witnessed by the success rate of the Allsvenskan teams in the promotion playoffs in recent years. It seems that every season at least one and sometimes two Allsvenskan teams gains promotion, relegating one or two SEL teams in the process.

I don't see any scenario where Malmö moves the team to Copenhagen. The interest is so much higher on the Swedish side that it would be a huge risk to move to Copenhagen. Also, the arena in Malmö is bigger than the one planned in Ørestad. It's more likely that Copenhagen gains a KHL team. That might draw some Swedes. Come for the hockey - stay for the beer! They would need a sponsorship deal in the 8-10 million Euro a year range a la Saxo Bank. Might be worth it for someone like Carlsberg or another company with a presence in Russia. KHL newcomers Zagreb is reported to work with a player salary of 10 million Euros.
Yeah a Copenhagen KHL team. "Copenhagen Ice-Bergs?" and selling cool Carlsbergs during the game.
"Probably the Best Beer in Town" vs Russian Kvas?" kind of slogan (though I have to admit I'm rather fond of that liquid "øllebrød" drink). Should make a beer tent next to the hockey arena for all the thirsty Swedes coming over (like they have in Munich for the "Oktober fest").

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05-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by andersej View Post
More like a crazy few. I doubt it would change the numbers a whole lot, but I guess for the uninitiated it sounds a lot better to be in the top flight. In terms of actual level of play, a top Allsvenskan team is often more than a match for a (demoralised) bottom SEL team - as witnessed by the success rate of the Allsvenskan teams in the promotion playoffs in recent years. It seems that every season at least one and sometimes two Allsvenskan teams gains promotion, relegating one or two SEL teams in the process.

I don't see any scenario where Malmö moves the team to Copenhagen. The interest is so much higher on the Swedish side that it would be a huge risk to move to Copenhagen. Also, the arena in Malmö is bigger than the one planned in Ørestad. It's more likely that Copenhagen gains a KHL team. That might draw some Swedes. Come for the hockey - stay for the beer! They would need a sponsorship deal in the 8-10 million Euro a year range a la Saxo Bank. Might be worth it for someone like Carlsberg or another company with a presence in Russia. KHL newcomers Zagreb is reported to work with a player salary of 10 million Euros.
If that ever happens Riga and Copenhagen will form and instant rivalry two northern cities battling it our for supremacy (if norwegians join we can throw them in the mix too )

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05-02-2013, 11:15 AM
  #30
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If that ever happens Riga and Copenhagen will form and instant rivalry two northern cities battling it our for supremacy (if norwegians join we can throw them in the mix too )
yeah Stavanger + Copenhagen + Riga would be some fun games together. Stavanger could become the norwegian national team (with or without Zuccarello).

A Copenhagen team would have to be build on Denmark's European players (lots from Allsvenskan and DEL) and probably throw in a lot of Scanian players to make it more stronger and to get some fans over from Scania!

Rögle for instance distinguish between Swedish and Scanian players on their team roster (the yellow-red cross-flag for Scania).
http://www.roglebk.se/page/html/truppen.htm

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05-02-2013, 11:22 AM
  #31
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yeah Stavanger + Copenhagen + Riga would be some fun games together. Stavanger could become the norwegian national team (with or without Zuccarello).

A Copenhagen team would have to be build on Denmark's European players (lots from Allsvenskan and DEL) and probably throw in a lot of Scanian players to make it more stronger and to get some fans over from Scania!

Rögle for instance distinguish between Swedish and Scanian players on their team roster (the yellow-red cross-flag for Scania).
http://www.roglebk.se/page/html/truppen.htm
Do we throw Saint Petersburg in there too? I mean it is a northern city? everybody hates SKA in KHL

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05-02-2013, 11:27 AM
  #32
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Do we throw Saint Petersburg in there too? I mean it is a northern city? everybody hates SKA in KHL
Maybe......but if everybody hates SKA, then it doesn't really count - but it is the most "westernized" place in Russia.
But if KHL start to make smaller regional divisions, if you get an expansion west, then it would likely end up with "us"?!

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05-02-2013, 11:29 AM
  #33
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Maybe......but if everybody hates SKA, then it doesn't really count - but it is the most "westernized" place in Russia.
But if KHL start to make smaller regional divisions, if you get an expansion west, then it would likely end up with "us"?!
Could be,now thats a tough group,eh?

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05-02-2013, 11:35 AM
  #34
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Could be,now thats a tough group,eh?
Well it would be good for St. Petersburg for qualifying further on

But maybe they want to keep playing the Moscow teams to attract the maximum amount of excitement (hate?) and attendance/TV profit.

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05-02-2013, 11:41 AM
  #35
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Well it would be good for St. Petersburg for qualifying further on

But maybe they want to keep playing the Moscow teams to attract the maximum amount of excitement (hate?) and attendance/TV profit.
The situation with Mocow team is interesting as i understand there will be a new Rink for CSKA in the comming years 17k seater and for Moscow Dynamo a 12k seater "Arena of Legends" that leaves spartak with that ugly arena sokolyniki(thell probably get a new arena too someday). So two out of three teams could attract some serious viewers if they get their infrastructure straight,HD cameras are set up,marketing work is already underway and how to better market yourself than to win the Cup two times in row(Dynamo) so its beeing worked on.

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05-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #36
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The situation with Mocow team is interesting as i understand there will be a new Rink for CSKA in the comming years 17k seater and for Moscow Dynamo a 12k seater "Arena of Legends" that leaves spartak with that ugly arena sokolyniki(thell probably get a new arena too someday). So two out of three teams could attract some serious viewers if they get their infrastructure straight,HD cameras are set up,marketing work is already underway and how to better market yourself than to win the Cup two times in row(Dynamo) so its beeing worked on.
What is the story with the old communist names anyway.

Traktor = Kolchos-team?
Spartak = Gladiators named after Spartacus?
Dynamo = Electricians?
CSKA = Army (I know that one)
Avtomobilist = Lada car industry? (but there is already Lada Togliatti)
Lokomotiv = Train industry?
Metallurg = Steel workers?
Torpedo = Naval industri?

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05-02-2013, 11:59 AM
  #37
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What is the story with the old communist names anyway.

Traktor = Kolchos-team?
Spartak = Gladiators named after Spartacus?
Dynamo = Electricians?
CSKA = Army (I know that one)
Avtomobilist = Lada car industry?
Lokomotiv = Train industry?
Metallurg = Steel workers?
Torpedo = Naval industri?
I think Dynamo was police club,yeah most team names are connected to some industry of some sort.They kind of left the names because it`s history and all that jazz

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05-02-2013, 12:02 PM
  #38
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I think Dynamo was police club,yeah most team names are connected to some industry of some sort.They kind of left the names because it`s history and all that jazz
Found this info about Spartak:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartak...rts_society%29

"Spartak was the first and the largest All-Union Voluntary Sports Society of workers of state trade, producers' cooperation, light industry, civil aviation, education, culture, health service etc. Originated in 1925-26 as several physical culture groups by small producers' artels as an all-union physical culture and sports society it was established on April 19, 1935."

So more of a functionary club than a workers club?

Dynamo is really state police and intelligence. How would anyone dare to beat these guys !

"The "Dinamo" society was officially created on April 18, 1923 on Felix Dzerzhinsky's initiative[1] and under the sponsorship of the State Political Directorate (GPU), the Soviet political police, the predecessor of other later created Soviet security structures such as KGB, NKVD and MVD. For the rest of the society's history in the Soviet period, it maintained some connection with the state security apparatus".

CSKA + (SKA):
"It is popularly referred to in the West as "Red Army" or "the Red Army team" because during the Soviet era, it was a part of the Armed Forces sports society, which in turn was associated with the Soviet Army. Now the historical CSKA sport club (aka "Big CSKA") still is a department of Russian Defense Ministry."

Lokomotiv:
"Lokomotiv is a shortcut for Lokomotiv Voluntary Sports Society that existed in the former Soviet Union. It was owned and supported by national railroad companies, hence the name."

Zenit:
"Zenit (Russian: Зенит; meaning zenith) was the All-Union Voluntary Sports Society for workers of arms industry, established in 1936."

Shakhtyor/Shakhtar = Mining Industry
Metallurg = Metal Industry


Last edited by Justinov: 05-02-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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05-02-2013, 12:03 PM
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Found this info about Spartak:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartak...rts_society%29

"Spartak was the first and the largest All-Union Voluntary Sports Society of workers of state trade, producers' cooperation, light industry, civil aviation, education, culture, health service etc. Originated in 1925-26 as several physical culture groups by small producers' artels as an all-union physical culture and sports society it was established on April 19, 1935."

So more of a functionary club than a workers club?
Interesting,i didnt even know that

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05-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #40
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Interesting,i didnt even know that
So Dinamo Riga is a local branch of KGB

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05-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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well,justinov you kind of answer your own questions i mean i knew that dynamo=police cska,ska =army loko=railroad industry,but still interesting how the names originated

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05-02-2013, 12:23 PM
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So Dinamo Riga is a local branch of KGB
During soviet times it was,yes,but more connected to police than kgb

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05-02-2013, 12:29 PM
  #43
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well,justinov you kind of answer your own questions i mean i knew that dynamo=police cska,ska =army loko=railroad industry,but still interesting how the names originated
Yep I went on to search it myself.....actually very interesting how much everything was controlled by the state-apparatus. Any sportsclub was in some sort of state-union-compartment. It couldn't just be "local".

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05-02-2013, 12:34 PM
  #44
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What is the story with the old communist names anyway.

Spartak = Gladiators named after Spartacus?
Why the sarcasm? Spartacus led a slave uprising against the Romans and became a figure symbolic for revolt against oppression and exploitation. In the eyes of the Communists he was an early proletarian leader, a hero of his time.

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05-02-2013, 12:35 PM
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Yep I went on to search it myself.....actually very interesting how much everything was controlled by the state-apparatus. Any sportsclub was in some sort of state-union-compartment. It couldn't just be "local".
I dont thāt comes as suprise,now does it?

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05-02-2013, 12:35 PM
  #46
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Why the sarcasm? Spartacus led a slave uprising against the Romans and became a figure symbolic for revolt against oppression and exploitation. In the eyes of the Communists he was an early proletarian leader, a hero of his time.
I just thought - it's having the name that could be understood like they were still slaves under the communist regime......but I understand fully your point.

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05-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #47
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I dont thāt comes as suprise,now does it?
Not really....but haven't thought about it really before. You never in the west learn anything about Sovjet sport-club-history!

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05-02-2013, 12:42 PM
  #48
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I just thought - it's having the name that could be understood like they were still slaves under the communist regime......but I understand fully your point.
Well, opponents of the Communist regime probably thought so too as they gathered behind Spartak. But that was not the original idea back in 1936.

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05-02-2013, 12:46 PM
  #49
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Well, opponents of the Communist regime probably thought so too as they gathered behind Spartak. But that was not the original idea back in 1936.
Nope in 1936 they probably didn't realized it could be understood both ways - so it seems I was not the only one catching that double-meaning!

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05-02-2013, 01:06 PM
  #50
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so it seems I was not the only one catching that double-meaning!
Then again, Spartak was "the people's club" in Moscow anyway (as opposed to the government teams CSKA [Army] and Dinamo [KGB]), I guess that alone is enough to explain the team's popularity among people who were not so fond of the regime. Did the name "Spartak" really matter for them? I don't know.

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