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Thoughts on preemptive hits (a la Letang on Tavares)

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Old
05-02-2013, 01:08 PM
  #51
Tasty Biscuits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
This hit reminded a lot of the Mikko Koivu hit on Niklas Kronwall a few years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqXFitDQYgc


Kerry Fraser analysed that hit for TSN:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=379465
Good call, I forgot about that article.

If Eaton picks up the puck, sure it's interference.

But Letang got it, so it's not.

From the gif, it's clear Tavares was also looking to engage contact, or else his arms wouldn't have been up. If he were hunting the puck, his stick would be on, or close to, the ice.

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05-02-2013, 01:17 PM
  #52
DoktorZaius
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He was close enough to the puck, and both of them were in pursuit of it, such that calling an interference there just isn't going to happen in the playoffs.

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05-02-2013, 01:29 PM
  #53
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If they're close enough to the puck (i.e. the defenceman could reach the puck or is within one stride of reaching the puck) and the point of contact at the chest or hips (i.e not at the head but also he doesn't duck down and take his pursuer out at the knees) then I'm fine with it.

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05-02-2013, 01:32 PM
  #54
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You can clearly see Tavares getting his hands ready to apply a hit to Letang. I don't understand the crying over this by some fans. (Not fans here). This hit happens every single time players go into the corners. In fact, the NHL Player Safety Rules ENCOURAGE THIS on LETANG'S BEHALF so he's not launched into the boards.

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05-02-2013, 01:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Both are going for the puck, so how is Tavares unsuspecting? If you don't want to get hit back when you're going to hit someone...don't play the game. As long as I've been playing hockey, defensemen have hit back when a forward was coming down on them. It was a solid, clean hit. Shoulder tucked, right in the chest, never made contact with the head.
This.

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05-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #56
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I think he pulled up a little quicker than would have expected. I wouldn't have complained too much if they called it interference, but it was much more on the 'good' than 'penalty' end of the spectrum.

In general I would agree that the officiating last night was a disaster, though.

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05-02-2013, 01:49 PM
  #57
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Nothing wrong with it because of where they were in relation to the boards and puck, and in relation to each other. Letang was preventing himself from being hit into the boards. I wouldn't have a problem if Tavares had done the reverse as long as the arm / shoulder doesn't make contact with the neck or face.
Exactly. Look at it as Letang established the position/ice. The NHL need the D-man to actually do this more.

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05-02-2013, 01:51 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
I think he pulled up a little quicker than would have expected. I wouldn't have complained too much if they called it interference, but it was much more on the 'good' than 'penalty' end of the spectrum.

In general I would agree that the officiating last night was a disaster, though.
Officiating to the score sheet. I have no problem playing to the whistle/end of the game, but Martin was crunching gus at the final horn.

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05-02-2013, 01:52 PM
  #59
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It's a puck battle that Tavares ended up losing. Had the outcome been different (Tavares knocking Letang over in the collision), would people be calling for Tavares to get penalized for interference? Both players engaged, one player ended up on his ass.

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05-02-2013, 02:20 PM
  #60
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Letang, like any other player, is entitled to the ice he is standing on. In general, no one has a duty to get out of the way of any other player. In this instance, the puck is far enough away that the Interference rule is in play, but Letang correctly realizes that Tavares is close enough that if he simply stops and braces for contact, Tavares won't be able to avoid him. Thus, no interference is called.

You see something similar when a defenseman is skating backwards and a forward chips the puck past him. Typically the defender will continue skating backwards in a straight line, in an effort to make the forward change his path and go around him. As long as the defender continues skating in his line, he should be safe from an interference call. However, if the forward starts to go around him and the defender changes his path or initiates contact, then you will see interference called.

Likewise here. If Tavares had changed his path to go around Letang, and Letang had reached out and hit him, then 2 minutes for interference would be appropriate. But since Letang is entitled to his ice, this was a good non-call.

I have no idea what the point is supposed to be about this being a dangerous type of hit. All hits are potentially dangerous. But this hit is legal so the question isn't really whether Letang was right or wrong but whether there should be a rule change. I don't think there should be.

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05-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #61
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My take:

For years, I used to do this in amateur games. I was penalized so many times for it. Either interference or roughing. Especially when it was people finishing their hits on me.

I always believed it was a penalty. But truthfully - I love it. If you want to try and punish me, then screw it. I'll punish you. That's the beauty of this game. But we have to be careful with stuff Letang did. That is borderline here. I would like those plays called interference. He can be aggressive, but not that physical during the play. He's protecting himself, but in turn just blasted JT.

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05-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #62
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The Pens this year are nasty ****ing bullies.

They beat the will out of the other team to compete.

They are nasty, evil, and likely will kick a dog or child if given the chance to.

If you try and go near the front of the net they will make you forever incapable of having children or chewing solid food.

And I am loving every minute.

Isn't it great for once to be that team?

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05-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjb141 View Post
I think he pulled up a little quicker than would have expected. I wouldn't have complained too much if they called it interference, but it was much more on the 'good' than 'penalty' end of the spectrum.

In general I would agree that the officiating last night was a disaster, though.
I always hate these statements. It was a 5-0 game. And the score did not even reflect the degree of domination. Have people started watching hockey? The refs were going to call a lot on the Pens in that situation.

My only beef at all was letting the game get out of hand at the end. They likely should have begun tossing people sooner. But aside from that it is hockey, and has been reffed this way in all the decades I have watched it.

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05-02-2013, 02:34 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The Pens this year are nasty ****ing bullies.

They beat the will out of the other team to compete.

They are nasty, evil, and likely will kick a dog or child if given the chance to.

If you try and go near the front of the net they will make you forever incapable of having children or chewing solid food.

And I am loving every minute.

Isn't it great for once to be that team?
you know it's a shame that Tangradi was a bum, he could have learned a hell of a lot from Morrow. wish we had a few more young forwards, even if they were black aces, who could learn from these guys.

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Old
05-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by heretik27 View Post
The hit they're showing on the NHL website right now is what I'm looking to discuss. When I was younger I had a player do pretty much the same thing to me about 10 feet away from the puck and ended up getting injured. Chest muscles between the pecks felt all tight for years later. Doctor described it as instead of it being like an elastic it was more like duct tape.

Anyways, bringing up my personal experience here because I really don't like these type of hits because they're away from the puck and often catch people off guard like Letang's hit on Tavares. I believe people have a right to protect themselves on the play, but there's a line that seems to get crossed when you do this away from the puck.

Dustin Brown's recent suspension came about because he tried to do the same thing and ended up elbowing that poor guy in the face instead of absorbing the hit after playing the puck.

I'm hoping people can at least understand my point and not ridicule it. I'm not a Pittsburgh hater, in fact since you picked up Iggy I've been following the games and really come to liking the team.

So anyways, ignoring everything else like what team someone plays for and who's doing the hitting/receiving do people think that it tends to be a bit dangerous or do you see it as being perfectly fine? To me it's a hit on an unsuspecting player away from the puck and should be discouraged in all levels of hockey.
Simply put, no.

Letang (or any defenseman going after a puck while a forward's on his back) is in much more serious danger of both pain and permanent injury in this situation than the chasing player is from a reverse hit.

To put this in perspective, you had a muscle tear or something from receiving a reverse hit. Well, a guy in Sweden was made quadriplegic because, on a play like this one, the guy in Tavares position cross checked him in the numbers this year. Better to not take that chance.

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05-02-2013, 02:46 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The Pens this year are nasty ****ing bullies.

They beat the will out of the other team to compete.

They are nasty, evil, and likely will kick a dog or child if given the chance to.

If you try and go near the front of the net they will make you forever incapable of having children or chewing solid food.

And I am loving every minute.

Isn't it great for once to be that team?
I 100% agree with this post.

And frankly, there are more dangerous types of plays to be looking out for (like, for example, headfirst into the boards thing mentioned above), but that's the nature of the game.

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05-02-2013, 03:20 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepanated View Post
Letang, like any other player, is entitled to the ice he is standing on. In general, no one has a duty to get out of the way of any other player. In this instance, the puck is far enough away that the Interference rule is in play, but Letang correctly realizes that Tavares is close enough that if he simply stops and braces for contact, Tavares won't be able to avoid him. Thus, no interference is called.

You see something similar when a defenseman is skating backwards and a forward chips the puck past him. Typically the defender will continue skating backwards in a straight line, in an effort to make the forward change his path and go around him. As long as the defender continues skating in his line, he should be safe from an interference call. However, if the forward starts to go around him and the defender changes his path or initiates contact, then you will see interference called.

Likewise here. If Tavares had changed his path to go around Letang, and Letang had reached out and hit him, then 2 minutes for interference would be appropriate. But since Letang is entitled to his ice, this was a good non-call.

I have no idea what the point is supposed to be about this being a dangerous type of hit. All hits are potentially dangerous. But this hit is legal so the question isn't really whether Letang was right or wrong but whether there should be a rule change. I don't think there should be.
I think this sums up my feelings on this pretty well. It's borderline, but you're right that there's no reason he couldn't just stop up. He's entitled to that patch of ice. I've been on the receiving end of these sorts of hits before. I always thought it was my fault for not being ready for contact.

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Old
05-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #68
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Battle for the puck, nothing more.

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Old
05-02-2013, 04:40 PM
  #69
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On 50/50 plays like that, let them play. As long as you're not boarding the guy.

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Old
05-02-2013, 05:16 PM
  #70
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as long as the hit itself is clean ie no elbows to the head or going at knees, then its fine by me.

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05-02-2013, 05:21 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Simply put, no.

Letang (or any defenseman going after a puck while a forward's on his back) is in much more serious danger of both pain and permanent injury in this situation than the chasing player is from a reverse hit.

To put this in perspective, you had a muscle tear or something from receiving a reverse hit. Well, a guy in Sweden was made quadriplegic because, on a play like this one, the guy in Tavares position cross checked him in the numbers this year. Better to not take that chance.
Do you think if this became more common from defenders that forwards would be more likely to plaster them or less likely as a result of knowing the defender is looking to make contact? Personally, if a guy tried that on me I'd be more likely to destroy the next guy in the same situation if I'm expecting them to stop up.

In this instance, Teemu barely makes any effort to hit this guy and he ends up flying into the boards for trying to stop up and hit him. Imagine what happens to him if the guy coming in actually hits him that far from the boards. The damage would be crippling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmI3M-kWJUk

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05-02-2013, 05:53 PM
  #72
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Look at that hit closely, guys! I had a long discussion with my friend about this hit and we finally came to clear conclusion. That hit would be probably worth of 2 min for interference, but prior to that hit Tavares touched Tanger with the stick and initiated the contact first. That COMPLETELY RULES OUT the possibility of interference and makes it an absolutely good hit

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05-02-2013, 06:06 PM
  #73
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As long as the elbow stays tucked it's fine.

What's the other option? Get railed into the boards & be out for 6 months with a concussion?

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Old
05-02-2013, 06:17 PM
  #74
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Didn't Despres do the exact same thing last week to Tim Wallace? Does someone have a video on that one?

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Old
05-02-2013, 06:23 PM
  #75
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What can go wrong

Ronny Keller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnCm_rcGAbk

Keller initiates the hit and, partly due to that, the overly aggressive counter check, and specific distance to the boards, ends in tragedy.

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