HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 6.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-02-2013, 10:49 AM
  #976
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
We have a lot of players who are able to distribute the puck, but few able to score ala Ryder (aka pure goal scorer 30+). In the upcoming years, our finishers should be Gally and Patches, I would like more in the pipes.

Who, in your opinion, are the best pure scorers in this draft, and who could be avalaible in late 1st round and early 2nd ?

Thank you
Mantha

But I'm against drafting for need that early in the draft. This is not the NFL draft, you draft guys so they can contribute in 3-4-5 years, not in 13-14. First 4-6 picks draft BPA.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 05-02-2013 at 11:01 AM.
Monctonscout is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 10:54 AM
  #977
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The one kid I would be concerned about in terms of what you said about Ryan...Zykov. He is big and strong and drives the net and can finish...but with average speed and no longer being bigger(210-215lbs) than his opponent will his game translate to the NHL?

Gauthier relies on smarts, vision and hockey sense along with above average size...however his body is still a lot more raw at 6'5" 210lbs than Zykov at 6' 210-215lbs. Plus Gauthier has a nice skating stide which could translate to above average(Eller like) speed for a big man.
Having average speed, as in skates like the average NHL player should be just fine for a player who is average sized or bigger. The problem with Ryan was he was slow by NHL standards and so the good qualities he had couldn't overcome his inability to be up with the play. So, as an example, while he was willing to drive the net, it didn't do him any good since by the time he made it up the ice on the rush the play was already over, so no Bourque like tip in like plays. He was too slow to get back to back check so a defensive liability etc.

yianik is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #978
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Having average speed, as in skates like the average NHL player should be just fine for a player who is average sized or bigger. The problem with Ryan was he was slow by NHL standards and so the good qualities he had couldn't overcome his inability to be up with the play. So, as an example, while he was willing to drive the net, it didn't do him any good since by the time he made it up the ice on the rush the play was already over, so no Bourque like tip in like plays. He was too slow to get back to back check so a defensive liability etc.
I'm not suggesting Zykov will be a bust because of this...but to me he has a higher bust risk than guys like Morin Gauthier and even Mantha.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:34 AM
  #979
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm not suggesting Zykov will be a bust because of this...but to me he has a higher bust risk than guys like Morin Gauthier and even Mantha.
Im actually not familiar enough with most of the individual players to make any comment on their pros and cons, I was just making a general comment on the size issue translating to the NHL with a couple of specific players I do know about as an example. The skating issue for me became a real problem for the team in the Houle days because we burned so many 1st round picks because we kept drafting guys who had lots of good qualities, but couldn't skate eg Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Eric Chouinard, Jason Ward etc. As a rule of thumb, and I know there are exceptions, if a guy cant skate you don't draft him in the 1st round, unless hes a goalie. Back then, the team would say the player will improve his foot speed, but never would enough to make it. I just decided that for me, picking a guy who would be a star if he could just improve his speed was always a trap for wasting a pick, because none of the number of guys we chose with that deficiency were ever able to overcome it.


Last edited by yianik: 05-02-2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: typo
yianik is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:53 AM
  #980
SgtPepper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Mantha

But I'm against drafting for need that early in the draft. This is not the NFL draft, you draft guys so they can contribute in 3-4-5 years, not in 13-14. First 4-6 picks draft BPA.
Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...

SgtPepper is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 11:56 AM
  #981
CH4
Registered User
 
CH4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicoutimi
Posts: 1,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
We have a lot of players who are able to distribute the puck, but few able to score ala Ryder (aka pure goal scorer 30+). In the upcoming years, our finishers should be Gally and Patches, I would like more in the pipes.

Who, in your opinion, are the best pure scorers in this draft, and who could be avalaible in late 1st round and early 2nd ?

Thank you
Zykov and Mantha.

Zykov if available in our 1st spot would be a no brainer.

CH4 is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 12:08 PM
  #982
bcv
My french sucks.
 
bcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
Is Kujawinski worth it in the 3rd+ round?

bcv is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 12:17 PM
  #983
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Is Kujawinski worth it in the 3rd+ round?
Totally, he's still highly skilled and big. He's kind of inconsistent, but he's a good gamble, especially in the third.

Mrb1p is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 12:42 PM
  #984
24rings
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mtl
Posts: 245
vCash: 500
I would like to take a gamble on Cammarata with our 2nd rounder, depending on who we take with the 3 picks before that.
If we draft Petan id pass on Cammarata and take somebody bigger. i wouldn't want 2 guys who are 5'7 with our top 4 picks but if that does happen IN TIMMINS WE TRUST

24rings is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 01:09 PM
  #985
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...
None of the guys drafted after LeBlanc scream Best Player Available. He was drafted about where everybody had him, being a local kid was just a bonus. People are panicking a bit too much due to his off year, the guy just turned 22 and he looked to be on the right track before this year(11-12 22 points in 31 AHL games and 10 points in 42 NHL games at 20).

I can see it with Fischer but at this point it's just speculation. From what we have heard Timmins has had the freedom of choice at the draft.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 02:19 PM
  #986
S Bah
Registered User
 
S Bah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 5,503
vCash: 500
I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.

S Bah is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 02:35 PM
  #987
kernkraft
Registered User
 
kernkraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kanata
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
None of the guys drafted after LeBlanc scream Best Player Available. He was drafted about where everybody had him, being a local kid was just a bonus. People are panicking a bit too much due to his off year, the guy just turned 22 and he looked to be on the right track before this year(11-12 22 points in 31 AHL games and 10 points in 42 NHL games at 20).

I can see it with Fischer but at this point it's just speculation. From what we have heard Timmins has had the freedom of choice at the draft.
this

nobody got a lot of points in Hamilton this season, not even Gallagher when he was there. the games I watched, his name was mentioned pretty often. I'm not overly concerned, but my expectations have been tempered a bit. I expect a solid 3rd liner out of him, sort of like Jeff Halpern.

kernkraft is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 03:03 PM
  #988
Treb
Registered User
 
Treb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.
Doubt Drouin is ready for 1st line/1st PP, but knowing Florida lack of high-end forward, he may be rushed in the spotlight. Galchenyuk/Yakupov/Gallagher minutes may be better for him than 20+ minutes a night at his age/build.

Treb is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #989
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
That's not a floater. I'm referring to someone that just goes on the ice and glides and never touches the puck. That's a floater, and it was Gauthier more often than not.


He appears to be floating because he can go 10 shifts in a row without touching the puck or keeping possession.


I've seen him play many times, thats why I don't particularly like him. Same with Mantha. It's not about my negative bias against player from QC, its about you positive bias for big players from QC. In this draft, Gauthier is a dime a dozen player, so is Mantha. There's no need to get crazy over him.

This feels like the Grigorenko fad all over again.
I've seen just about equal amounts of most players in the top-40 range. I can definitely tell you that Mantha and Gauthier are not a dime a dozen. I am not just a huge fan of players from the QMJHL, I don't feel as if I'm over valuing them. They may not play the style you're interested in but I can tell you that they both have big upside. Players with their size and skill level are not very popular in any draft. When you have two players over 6'4 that are elite either offensively or defensively it's a rare option. Of course there's a big amount of risk involved but if either of these players turn out, you're talking about very unique players. Neither are soft and both have power forward potential. There's no need to move into the top-15 for Gauthier and Mantha, that's ridiculous. I'd say they're both top-20 material.

Draft is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #990
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
I can see Florida with a very potent PP next season with the two Johnathan's and one of the Panthers veteran RW's. Possibly Versteeg or Kopecky with Huberdeau at center and Drouin at LW,that's a good line maybe Quinton Howden as the RW. Jealous as Hell am I, the Habs better get their quotient of good francophone players in this draft. Where they draft there will be quite a few,hopefully ones with an NHL future.
I doubt Florida passes on Mackinnon to draft a lesser and similar player to Huberdeau.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I've seen just about equal amounts of most players in the top-40 range. I can definitely tell you that Mantha and Gauthier are not a dime a dozen. I am not just a huge fan of players from the QMJHL, I don't feel as if I'm over valuing them. They may not play the style you're interested in but I can tell you that they both have big upside. Players with their size and skill level are not very popular in any draft. When you have two players over 6'4 that are elite either offensively or defensively it's a rare option. Of course there's a big amount of risk involved but if either of these players turn out, you're talking about very unique players. Neither are soft and both have power forward potential. There's no need to move into the top-15 for Gauthier and Mantha, that's ridiculous. I'd say they're both top-20 material.
They're dime a dozen... It's not a knock on them, its just that the draft pool is that good. Oh and I doubt Gauthier is elite in something. He's about average in everything, he's just tall... Playing the way he does, if he was 6' He'd be ranked mid 2nd round. Consider that Mantha is older than 90% of the rest... You can see why he had good numbers.

Still at our pick, I have no problem drafting them, but I'm not going crazy with them like you do, because they're clearly not the type of players you make them out to be.

Mrb1p is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 04:32 PM
  #991
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I doubt Florida passes on Mackinnon to draft a lesser and similar player to Huberdeau.




They're dime a dozen... It's not a knock on them, its just that the draft pool is that good. Oh and I doubt Gauthier is elite in something. He's about average in everything, he's just tall... Playing the way he does, if he was 6' He'd be ranked mid 2nd round. Consider that Mantha is older than 90% of the rest... You can see why he had good numbers.

Still at our pick, I have no problem drafting them, but I'm not going crazy with them like you do, because they're clearly not the type of players you make them out to be.
Gauthier plays a top-notch defensive game, also capable offensively. The fact that he is 6'5, hasn't filled out and at the same level as those mid-2nd picks puts him way ahead of the other players. Size like that automatically improves his potential to be an impact player. Whether you or I like it or not, size is a huge part of sport and hockey. I'm judging both of them purely based on potential, not on how complete their game is right now.

To each his own I suppose.

Draft is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 04:46 PM
  #992
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...
What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?

yianik is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 05:50 PM
  #993
clearwater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?
Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.

clearwater is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 05:56 PM
  #994
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 22,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
Oh I agree about BPA.

The last 2 1st round picks that Timmins did based on GM pressure were busts, Fischer (He was told to draft a Dman), and Leblanc (Draft in MTL).

However, if the best player avalaible is a scorer, that would be perfect, that's why I was wondering if in the 2nd or 3rd round Timmins could hit (as usual) a homerun.

We also need to fuel the system with some goalie depth...
Actually, the only evidence about this was at the effect that he was picking Leblanc regardless.

What's your evidence?

MXD is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 06:25 PM
  #995
ccgg
Registered User
 
ccgg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rimouski
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwater View Post
Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.
There is now Nick Moutrey and Samuel Henley. Are there other players officially invited ?

ccgg is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 06:50 PM
  #996
Treb
Registered User
 
Treb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwater View Post
Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.
What is the relation with the quoted post?

Treb is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 06:54 PM
  #997
SgtPepper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianik View Post
What is the source that TT was told to draft a D man and do we know who he wanted to draft if that was the case?
It is very faint but I remember it was Renaud Lavoie, talking about draft day a couple of years ago, saying that management had asked Timmins to *heavily favor* a Dman during the 2006 draft.
I think he wanted Mitera (who was taken 1 spot in front of Fischer).

For Leblanc, no matter how high Timmins had Leblanc on his list (yes I saw the pic with his name on top), I felt it was more of a publicity stunt that a quebecer was drafted in MTL.

As for Mantha, a scorer that size is impressive but a few reports I read this evening said he still needed to learn how to use it, become grittier.

SgtPepper is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 06:58 PM
  #998
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtPepper View Post
It is very faint but I remember it was Renaud Lavoie, talking about draft day a couple of years ago, saying that management had asked Timmins to *heavily favor* a Dman during the 2006 draft.
I think he wanted Mitera (who was taken 1 spot in front of Fischer).

For Leblanc, no matter how high Timmins had Leblanc on his list (yes I saw the pic with his name on top), I felt it was more of a publicity stunt that a quebecer was drafted in MTL.

As for Mantha, a scorer that size is impressive but a few reports I read this evening said he still needed to learn how to use it, become grittier.
How is it a publicity stunt when most teams/scouting agencies had him mid 1st round. This is the NHL I doubt they draft a guy taht belongs in the 3rd round at #18 overall just to get a local guy.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 08:27 PM
  #999
S Bah
Registered User
 
S Bah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 5,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwater View Post
Nick Moutrey 6'3 210 Lb skilled power forward, who is a very good skater has been invited to the NHL combine and Canadians personal conbine in June.
Love it that's two for two so far, counting Samuel Henley as well.

S Bah is offline  
Old
05-02-2013, 09:57 PM
  #1000
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,662
vCash: 500
After tonight game, we really need to draft big forwards with grit.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.