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Old
09-16-2006, 11:29 AM
  #1
Thundermare
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Chris Holt Question

With the rumors involving Montoya, that made me wonder... How is Chris Holt Doing at camp... any chance he develops into an excellent Back up at the NHL level

I mean the guy is huge and seems to have good positionning... though maybe not fast enough to make it long term

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09-16-2006, 12:19 PM
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eco's bones
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I'm not sure how good a prospect he really is. I saw him once live last year--early November (Hartford at Binghamton) and he stunk out the joint and soon after was sent down to the ECHL where he pretty much stayed and did not overly impress even there. Then after not playing for a month or so was pretty much a rabbit pulled out of the hat when Montoya got injured in the playoffs and the backup Gherson did not do well. Holt came in then and played very well. So a very mediocre 1st year pro regular season and a pretty good post season. To me the jury is definitely out so far.

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09-16-2006, 12:31 PM
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According to Lelsie he was strictly mediocre at the Red Wings' Rookie camp, which is the most recent sample we can point to. Disappointing, because after the HFD playoffs last year I thought perhaps we had caught lightning in a bottle.

He's still got a year or two to shape into a good prospect, but he can't continue to have these ups and downs - otherwise he's a career AHL backup.

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09-16-2006, 03:37 PM
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I do not like Holt at all, i have seen him play several times for hartford and he gives up alot of goals some really quite weak, and we had a pretty good defence last year and Montoya did great... he didn't. He also did very bad in the ECHL... i think a few people got their hopes up when he played good in the play offs for 1-2 games. I really don't think he will get to the NHL as more then a fleeting fill-in for the back up.

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09-16-2006, 05:16 PM
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I dont know what you guys are talking about...Everyone knows Holt The Fort is the best Goaltending prospect in our system.

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09-16-2006, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
I dont know what you guys are talking about...Everyone knows Holt The Fort is the best Goaltending prospect in our system.
Chris Holt is to the Rangers what Aki Berg was to the Leafs.

GOD.

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09-16-2006, 05:36 PM
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I see a lot of Jason Labarbera in him, and that's both good and bad.

Size, positioning, ability to let in softies, quickness issues, going to have to slim down issues, how they've come along and looked at the same level, etc.

I can see Holt developing similarly to Labarbera in the sense that he's going to take a long time before he could even challange for the spot, he'd look better behind an airtight defense and he could be about an average backup for a few years by the time he's in his mid-20's.

Watching Labs then, and Holt now is almost uncanny.

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09-16-2006, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I see a lot of Jason Labarbera in him, and that's both good and bad.

Size, positioning, ability to let in softies, quickness issues, going to have to slim down issues, how they've come along and looked at the same level, etc.

I can see Holt developing similarly to Labarbera in the sense that he's going to take a long time before he could even challange for the spot, he'd look better behind an airtight defense and he could be about an average backup for a few years by the time he's in his mid-20's.

Watching Labs then, and Holt now is almost uncanny.
Well have to agree with the proviso that Labarbera is his upside. He might not make it at all.

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09-17-2006, 12:32 AM
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Well have to agree with the proviso that Labarbera is his upside. He might not make it at all.
Truth be told, I'm not even sure Labs will make it when all is said and done.

Heading into this season you've got Cloutier and Garon ahead of him.

Labs is like so many players that just highlight how great the jump from the AHL to the NHL really is and how sometimes a players potential can be inflated by the AHL team he plays on. It goes back to my feelings about players like Genoway, Girardi and Pock and how its so much more than the numbers or putting together a 10 game NHL stint.

On paper Garon and Labs were two amazing AHL goalies who put up some HUGE numbers. But at the NHL level, they combined for a pretty mediocre NHL tandem whose experiment lasted all of one season.

Even amongst the Rangers last decade there is a long line of goalies who made you say "maybe" but who were no more than very good AHL goalies (despite some overly dramatic threads on here by people wanting to give them a chance).

J.F. Labbe, Labarbera, Holmqvist, etc.

The gap is so much bigger than a stat sheet and some wishful thinking implies. Everyone thinks they've found the next steal or out of left field player. What often gets overlooked is that for every St. Louis there's 200 guys who fall by the side. There's never has many diamonds in the rough as people want to believe or look at stat sheets and point to.

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09-17-2006, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Truth be told, I'm not even sure Labs will make it when all is said and done.

Heading into this season you've got Cloutier and Garon ahead of him.

Labs is like so many players that just highlight how great the jump from the AHL to the NHL really is and how sometimes a players potential can be inflated by the AHL team he plays on. It goes back to my feelings about players like Genoway, Girardi and Pock and how its so much more than the numbers or putting together a 10 game NHL stint.

On paper Garon and Labs were two amazing AHL goalies who put up some HUGE numbers. But at the NHL level, they combined for a pretty mediocre NHL tandem whose experiment lasted all of one season.

Even amongst the Rangers last decade there is a long line of goalies who made you say "maybe" but who were no more than very good AHL goalies (despite some overly dramatic threads on here by people wanting to give them a chance).

J.F. Labbe, Labarbera, Holmqvist, etc.

The gap is so much bigger than a stat sheet and some wishful thinking implies. Everyone thinks they've found the next steal or out of left field player. What often gets overlooked is that for every St. Louis there's 200 guys who fall by the side. There's never has many diamonds in the rough as people want to believe or look at stat sheets and point to.
The one I remember most as an absolutely couldn't miss was Corey Hirsch. Well he did. Anyway I never was a big fan of Labarbera's and I am not at least yet of Chris Holt. From last year I don't expect that he's going to make it. Now it's up to him to prove me wrong which is fine if he can do it. As for other players Jessiman might be someone who by December we can write in or write off. It's important that he produce enough where he can play on a scoring line. My fear with him is him being bypassed by any number of others. As for Pock and Girardi--I actually think that Girardi who is a few years younger might someday be a player. I'm more hopeful for him.

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09-17-2006, 08:43 AM
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Holt have cult-status among some fans, though from what I've seen of him, all I can say is . We are defenitly wasting everyone's time trying to develop him into anything. His role is probably though just to contribute in the lockerroom. He is a happy go lucky kind of character.

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09-17-2006, 09:01 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
On paper Garon and Labs were two amazing AHL goalies who put up some HUGE numbers. But at the NHL level, they combined for a pretty mediocre NHL tandem whose experiment lasted all of one season.
You know, I think along with the game changing, the nets maybe getting bigger, I belive the illusion some goalies brings will dissapear.

Just like there is a big diffrence in talent between centers, there is a big diffrent in talent among goalies. Comparing Labbs to Broudeur is like comparing Jiri Hudler to Peter Forsberg.

The thing is that in the NHL, there are allot of goalies who have the talent of Hudler, but are producing like Forsberg, if you know what i mean. One year, on one team, one goalie is top 5 in the league, 3 years after that the same guy is in the AHL. It doesn't add up.

I defenitly belive that we will see less of that in the future. Before the lockout a goalie had to only display 75% of a goalies attribute to have success, if the D infront of him played well. On a good night, behind a good defense, he had to save zero breakaways, maybe one odd man rush, and 25 bad angle shots. Its under thoose circumstances a good goalie like Giguere can be fantastic, a streaky goalie like Theodore can compete for the Hart Trophy, just to give a few examples, not to talk about someone like Chechmanek...

I always where really high on Lundqvist. But it where when I saw him play live against Manny Fernandez in the SEL I really understood his potential. The diffrence between thoose two in terms of pure talent, can be compared to the diffrence in pure talent between Forsberg and Jason Allison. Still Manny Fernandez finnished 6th overall in svs%. I don't think scoring will go up in the NHL before a Manny Fernandez plays like the Jason Allison he is, and not like a Peter Forsberg, . And I don't think the league will stop changing the game before scoring go up. Thats why I belive they will make the nets a bit bigger, which together with teams getting more talent into the lineups, will straighten things out, and maybe 2 years from now the most talented goalies also will be the most valueble once by a wide margin.

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09-17-2006, 09:25 AM
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I think eco that if you use that experience as a guage you might be underselling Holt to some degree. While I don't expect him to be any more than a backup, I do think he has more potential than Labarbera had or has. Labarbera to me was one of those guys that was what I call an "ad-hoc" goalie. He was fairly undisciplined in his technique and overly relied on his recovery ability to make the save.

While that may have been sufficient at the AHL level, he was (IMO) always going to have problems with that in the NHL. When you add in a fairly high number of rebounds and his poor lateral movement, and I felt pretty safe in predicting him to never be a regular NHL starter.

In the three years that I've watched Holt (including the UNO games I got to see) I've seen a somewhat uneven improvement. When I first saw him play against Minnesota back in 2003-04, he started off looking like pretty good against a top notch team. His movements were clean and precise though he seemed to lose his concentration later in the game.

In the interim I've seen him play some very fine games, and others where you just shake your head. He is very raw, and most things would have to break the right way for him to be an NHL starter, but I don't think his case is completely hopeless.

In terms of characterizing him as happy-go-lucky, I think you have to be careful with making a judgement from interviews. From what I understand, he's still a little on the immature side, and I heard a couple of reports from UNO that he was very competitive.

I tell you one thing...he'll make a great commentator if he's given the chance.

Meanwhile it's also interesting that his NHL debut came in the third period of a blow-out and consisted of around 10 minutes of shut out hockey...an almost exact replica of Labarbera's NHL debut with the Rangers when he was inserted into a high-scoring loss to Pittsburgh and didn't return to the NHL for another couple of years.

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09-17-2006, 12:10 PM
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Well it didn't help Fish that the one time I did see him he looked awful. I'd hardly expect or would want our team to dump somebody just on one poor performance but his year spent mainly in the ECHL was mediocre at best. At this point he's hardly somebody I'm counting on in the near future. One way or the other he definitely needs more seasoning and I'd be shocked if he doesn't spend at least the next two seasons in the minors.

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09-17-2006, 02:19 PM
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Well it didn't help Fish that the one time I did see him he looked awful. I'd hardly expect or would want our team to dump somebody just on one poor performance but his year spent mainly in the ECHL was mediocre at best. At this point he's hardly somebody I'm counting on in the near future. One way or the other he definitely needs more seasoning and I'd be shocked if he doesn't spend at least the next two seasons in the minors.
No doubt...

I think your expectations are reasonable though...he's realistically fifth on the goaltender depth chart today, behind Lundqvist, Weekes, Montoya and Valiquette anyway, and he'll be Rangers property likely until he's 25 so there's no rush

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09-17-2006, 02:33 PM
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Fish- Thanks allot for the input. My impression of him is that he can be a decent goalie, but not in the NHL, not among the top 60 in the world, maybe top 120. I have no problem with having him in the organization, he seems like a good character, might be a better choice of word then happy-go-lucky, and that is always usful. But I also feel that with Allaire in the system, I would much rather have a kid like Wiikman there, someone with more raw potential, which I don't feel Holt have.

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09-17-2006, 08:00 PM
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Holt=AHLer

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09-17-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I see a lot of Jason Labarbera in him, and that's both good and bad.

Size, positioning, ability to let in softies, quickness issues, going to have to slim down issues, how they've come along and looked at the same level, etc.

I can see Holt developing similarly to Labarbera in the sense that he's going to take a long time before he could even challange for the spot, he'd look better behind an airtight defense and he could be about an average backup for a few years by the time he's in his mid-20's.

Watching Labs then, and Holt now is almost uncanny.
I've thought that LaBarbera comparison for a little bit also. 6-3, 237 is HUGE.

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09-17-2006, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The one I remember most as an absolutely couldn't miss was Corey Hirsch. Well he did. Anyway I never was a big fan of Labarbera's and I am not at least yet of Chris Holt. From last year I don't expect that he's going to make it. Now it's up to him to prove me wrong which is fine if he can do it. As for other players Jessiman might be someone who by December we can write in or write off. It's important that he produce enough where he can play on a scoring line. My fear with him is him being bypassed by any number of others. As for Pock and Girardi--I actually think that Girardi who is a few years younger might someday be a player. I'm more hopeful for him.
Think with Girardi that concerns me is that the kid seemed to play the hockey of his life last season. I could really care less if he wasn't drafted or other factors, but it does concern me that the kid was really a pretty average junior defenseman who suddenly looked really good last year.

Usually kids who are sleepers at least had something to point to at lower levels, I didn't really see that with Girardi. Maybe he becomes a surprise, but there's something about last season that concerns me and doesn't have me convinced.

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09-18-2006, 08:15 AM
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Think with Girardi that concerns me is that the kid seemed to play the hockey of his life last season. I could really care less if he wasn't drafted or other factors, but it does concern me that the kid was really a pretty average junior defenseman who suddenly looked really good last year.

Usually kids who are sleepers at least had something to point to at lower levels, I didn't really see that with Girardi. Maybe he becomes a surprise, but there's something about last season that concerns me and doesn't have me convinced.
It's possible he was at a plateau and took a leap last season and maybe he's reached as far as he'll go. There might be other reasons also--may be more commited for all we know. He's definitely worth watching right now to see if he continues to improve. Still very young and seems to move the puck well. Definitely is going to be a very good AHL'er if nothing else. Already seems better than a few of our own draftee defensemen in Hartford.

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