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Do We Need a More Defensive System?

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Old
05-01-2013, 09:26 PM
  #51
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by CSKA1974 View Post

It does not explain a constant impotence against Rangers and Devils.
It does not explain flat starts or inability to play for 60 minutes.
It does not explain inability to clear defencive zones for brutally long period of times thus spending entire shift in D zone.
It does not explain lack of creativity on offence, frequently having all 3 forwards below the goal line.
It does not explain sloppy shift changes.
It does not explain ice time management for underperforming players.
It does not explain blown defencive assignments.

POST OF THE SEASON, HANDS DOWN !!!!


well done, sir !

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05-02-2013, 11:44 PM
  #52
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I look at this the other way. If the team has to change to make Bryz good and thus "earning his contract value or close to it" then he isn't worth that contract value in any way shape or form.
You're damn right he isn't worth the contract value. Neither would any goalie we pay big to come into this garbage system.*

Bryz got paid big bucks for numbers he put up in Phoenix, in probably the tightest defensive system in the league. Shocker he comes to an offensive team, doesn't put up similar Vezina numbers, and people call for his head without looking for a reason.

*And don't say Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Luongo, Miller, etc. Those first three are probably the 3 best goalies in hockey. On the FA market, they'd probably get $7-8m. They're also currently playing behind impeccable defensive systems for defensive coaches. Are they better than Bryz? Sure. Would they cost more for Bryz if available? Yup. Will fans be equally as disappointed and complain that they're aren't worth their contract value? I'd be pretty damn sure of it.

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05-02-2013, 11:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
You're damn right he isn't worth the contract value. Neither would any goalie we pay big to come into this garbage system.*

Bryz got paid big bucks for numbers he put up in Phoenix, in probably the tightest defensive system in the league. Shocker he comes to an offensive team, doesn't put up similar Vezina numbers, and people call for his head without looking for a reason.

*And don't say Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Luongo, Miller, etc. Those first three are probably the 3 best goalies in hockey. On the FA market, they'd probably get $7-8m. They're also currently playing behind impeccable defensive systems for defensive coaches. Are they better than Bryz? Sure. Would they cost more for Bryz if available? Yup. Will fans be equally as disappointed and complain that they're aren't worth their contract value? I'd be pretty damn sure of it.
So, no goalie except all of those goalies.

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05-03-2013, 12:12 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So, no goalie except all of those goalies.
No, none of the goalies.

Edit: I guess I see the confusion. I expect those goalies to be the rebuttal. I don't think they'd live up to the contract either.

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05-03-2013, 12:20 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
You're damn right he isn't worth the contract value. Neither would any goalie we pay big to come into this garbage system.*

Bryz got paid big bucks for numbers he put up in Phoenix, in probably the tightest defensive system in the league. Shocker he comes to an offensive team, doesn't put up similar Vezina numbers, and people call for his head without looking for a reason.

*And don't say Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick, Luongo, Miller, etc. Those first three are probably the 3 best goalies in hockey. On the FA market, they'd probably get $7-8m. They're also currently playing behind impeccable defensive systems for defensive coaches. Are they better than Bryz? Sure. Would they cost more for Bryz if available? Yup. Will fans be equally as disappointed and complain that they're aren't worth their contract value? I'd be pretty damn sure of it.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. A quick, agile goalie stands a better shot at playing well in Lavi's system than a slow, positional goalie like Bryz. I mean, I know it was only 6 games, and Im not saying he is the answer (at least not yet) but Mason stood on his head and helped win more games in that span than Bryz has all year.

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05-03-2013, 12:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Well, I wouldn't go that far. A quick, agile goalie stands a better shot at playing well in Lavi's system than a slow, positional goalie like Bryz. I mean, I know it was only 6 games, and Im not saying he is the answer (at least not yet) but Mason stood on his head and helped win more games in that span than Bryz has all year.
:

Someone forgot to tell this guy that Bryz was the team MVP the first half of the season.

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05-03-2013, 12:38 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
No, none of the goalies.

Edit: I guess I see the confusion. I expect those goalies to be the rebuttal. I don't think they'd live up to the contract either.
Some of those guys have been on bad teams and done just fine.

Though...that's only good for a year to year basis. Expecting any of them to be doing just fine at 35 and older isn't wise. It's an awful contract, I've hated it since it's terms sank in. More specifically, I've hated it since I checked Bryz's age, added 9, and saw the result.

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05-03-2013, 12:57 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Some of those guys have been on bad teams and done just fine.

Though...that's only good for a year to year basis. Expecting any of them to be doing just fine at 35 and older isn't wise. It's an awful contract, I've hated it since it's terms sank in. More specifically, I've hated it since I checked Bryz's age, added 9, and saw the result.
I know, it sucks. But it needed to be 9 years. If it was $51m for 5 years?...screw that

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05-03-2013, 07:24 AM
  #59
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No it didn't. If Homer had offered Bryz $35 million over 7 years, what other team was going to beat that?

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05-03-2013, 02:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
No it didn't. If Homer had offered Bryz $35 million over 7 years, what other team was going to beat that?
Still a similar cap hit, and most importantly...what if Bryz didn't want $35 million? It was a contract negotiation, not Homer delegating what Bryz would make.

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05-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #61
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He would only not want $35 million from the Flyers if another team was offering more.

Bryz might actually have some trade value now if he only had five years left on his contract instead of seven. And the buyout costs would be quite a bit lower.

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05-03-2013, 03:11 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He would only not want $35 million from the Flyers if another team was offering more.

Bryz might actually have some trade value now if he only had five years left on his contract instead of seven. And the buyout costs would be quite a bit lower.
The Flyers didn't let any other team offer anything, they traded for his rights. I'm sure if he was on the open market, he'd get some lucrative offers, coming off 2 straight Vezina finalist seasons.

As it's been discussed on here much before, the Flyers outbid themselves. It started with Snider publicly promising fans that the Buffalo/Boston playoff goaltending carousel would never happen again. On top of that, the Flyers seem to have this complex where they think that EVERY other team in the league is looking at their guy, and they overpay to get them. Versteeg comes to mind on this as well. I have a feeling that $51m over 9 years was one of the first offers on the table for Bryz, so he didn't walk to free-agency.

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05-03-2013, 04:30 PM
  #63
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I'm a big fan of high pressure, high offense hockey, but at the same time, you've got to be defensively responsible. The problem with the system in Philadelphia is that it involves the defensemen to be heavily involved in both the offense and the defense and it seems at times that defensemen just get caught and there isn't a fall back in place to protect them.

I think a modification of the system is required, but I don't think a complete overhaul is needed. When they went on their Cup run in 2010, Laviolette had them playing great offense and defense. There was a system in place and everyone knew the roles they were handed and to me, that's the biggest problem right now - knowing exactly what the roles are. There's no game planning other than Giroux is the top offensive center, Couturier is the defensive conscience and all the other forwards are interchangeable. There's no continuity and he's always tinkering and moving guys all over the place (very similar to what Hitchcock used to do).

If Laviolette can instill some defensive discipline and slow the game down a little, the players and the system will be better off. There'll be no need to consistently rush the opponent and they'll be better positionally as a result. Slow things down, let guys get into position and then go from there. There's no need to be playing at break neck speeds all the time. It's funny how the Flyers played some of their best hockey this season down the stretch when they simplified things. That's the approach to take next season.

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05-03-2013, 04:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'm a big fan of high pressure, high offense hockey, but at the same time, you've got to be defensively responsible. The problem with the system in Philadelphia is that it involves the defensemen to be heavily involved in both the offense and the defense and it seems at times that defensemen just get caught and there isn't a fall back in place to protect them.

I think a modification of the system is required, but I don't think a complete overhaul is needed. When they went on their Cup run in 2010, Laviolette had them playing great offense and defense. There was a system in place and everyone knew the roles they were handed and to me, that's the biggest problem right now - knowing exactly what the roles are. There's no game planning other than Giroux is the top offensive center, Couturier is the defensive conscience and all the other forwards are interchangeable. There's no continuity and he's always tinkering and moving guys all over the place (very similar to what Hitchcock used to do).

If Laviolette can instill some defensive discipline and slow the game down a little, the players and the system will be better off. There'll be no need to consistently rush the opponent and they'll be better positionally as a result. Slow things down, let guys get into position and then go from there. There's no need to be playing at break neck speeds all the time. It's funny how the Flyers played some of their best hockey this season down the stretch when they simplified things. That's the approach to take next season.
The bolded is dead on. Hell, the centers aren't even set in stone.

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05-03-2013, 10:01 PM
  #65
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Bryz was the best Flyer for the 1st 15 games of the year. [maybe because he was fresh ?]
after that, Jake & Simmonds were.
also: Mason finished his few games strong. [maybe because he was fresh ?]

Overall: top 3 Flyers this year, in order, in my opinion.

1.Jake
2. Simmonds
3. Bryz

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05-03-2013, 10:12 PM
  #66
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Bryz was the best Flyer for the 1st 15 games of the year. [maybe because he was fresh ?]
after that, Jake & Simmonds were.
also: Mason finished his few games strong. [maybe because he was fresh ?]

Overall: top 3 Flyers this year, in order, in my opinion.

1.Jake
2. Simmonds
3. Bryz
Seriously? Bryz, a bottom of the rankings goalie, over Giroux, Timonen, Luke Schenn?

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05-03-2013, 10:18 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Seriously? Bryz, a bottom of the rankings goalie, over Giroux, Timonen, Luke Schenn?
I would even throw Grossmann in with those names you mentioned.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-03-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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05-03-2013, 10:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Seriously? Bryz, a bottom of the rankings goalie, over Giroux, Timonen, Luke Schenn?
Hey I consider this progress from him. Up until like 10 games left in the season the guy was still saying he was the team's MVP

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05-03-2013, 10:46 PM
  #69
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Hey I consider this progress from him. Up until like 10 games left in the season the guy was still saying he was the team's MVP
I would give Rinaldo the Team MVP title before I would for Bryz.

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05-03-2013, 11:52 PM
  #70
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I would give Rinaldo the Team MVP title before I would for Bryz.
Rinaldo at least won a team award.

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05-04-2013, 04:00 AM
  #71
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Bryz was good at the start of the season though. But I'm not sure I'd go MVP. I think I'd give Luke Schenn the 3rd spot. He was solid for 95% of the season.

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05-04-2013, 07:20 AM
  #72
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Just putting this one out there: which three coaches who are currently a head coach (preferably in the playoffs) would you like to see run their system here?

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05-04-2013, 07:42 AM
  #73
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Just putting this one out there: which three coaches who are currently a head coach (preferably in the playoffs) would you like to see run their system here?
Paul MacLean, Mike Babcock, Joel Quenneville

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05-04-2013, 11:40 AM
  #74
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I just want better defensive play from the forwards. That is all I have wanted since 2010.

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05-04-2013, 12:05 PM
  #75
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Paul MacLean, Mike Babcock, Joel Quenneville
If Lavy goes, I vote to bring in Babcock.


Doesn't Quenneville run a similar style to Lavy? The Flyers definitely don't have the defense to play that anymore.

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