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PHI 1st (11th Overall) for Young PMD

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05-02-2013, 03:54 PM
  #101
John Swartzwelder
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Edler?

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05-02-2013, 04:00 PM
  #102
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Edler?
I'd do Edler for our 1st. Why would you though?

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05-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #103
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I'd do Edler for our 1st.
Id do Laughton + 11th overall for Edler, no hesitations...

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05-02-2013, 04:10 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Go ahead and show us how it's done...
Well first off it's sad that Flyers fans would want to trade the pick when we have the worst prospect pool in the league especially since Scott Laughton will soon be a full time NHLer next season ... and this team isn't one young defender away from Cup contention anyway.

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Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Nichushkin, Shinkaruk, Nurse, Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov.
^ A 12 player list of players like to go from 1st to 11th. All of whom are pretty much blue-chip prospects with potential to be stars/great players in the NHL. I'd rather keep the pick unless we're going to package it in order to get an already established star/top pairing defender - think somebody like Yandle instead of the likes of McBain, Petry, and co.

I like TJ Brodie and Luca Sbisa a lot, but not for that pick. I'd probably do it for Jake Gardiner if Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov and Nurse were all gone at 11. Even then, a high-end forward would have to drop - likely Shinkaruk ... and I'd again have to think about it. I really like the 11th spot for this draft for the Flyers 'cause it'll hopefully give them a defender instead of another forward.

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05-02-2013, 04:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Well first off it's sad that Flyers fans would want to trade the pick when we have the worst prospect pool in the league especially since Scott Laughton will soon be a full time NHLer next season ... and this team isn't one young defender away from Cup contention anyway.

^ A 12 player list of players like to go from 1st to 11th. All of whom are pretty much blue-chip prospects with potential to be stars/great players in the NHL. I'd rather keep the pick unless we're going to package it in order to get an already established star/top pairing defender - think somebody like Yandle instead of the likes of McBain, Petry, and co.

I like TJ Brodie and Luca Sbisa a lot, but not for that pick. I'd probably do it for Jake Gardiner if Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov and Nurse were all gone at 11. Even then, a high-end forward would have to drop - likely Shinkaruk ... and I'd again have to think about it. I really like the 11th spot for this draft for the Flyers 'cause it'll hopefully give them a defender instead of another forward.
I have to say, you're response doesn't really add up. You don't want to trade the pick for a defensive prospect; but you would use it to draft a defensive prospect.

Anyway, I thought that the premise of my proposal was pretty simple: Swap the 11th (assuming a forward is BPA) for an existing defensive prospect of roughly the same ceiling, one or two years further along in development. How does that not address your point (worst prospect pool in the league).

This is absolutely classic HF logic: Underage players > draft eligible players > drafted prospects > young NHLers > established NHL players.

There's a place for prospects, of course, and on a cap team like the Flyers, a contributor on an ELC would be very valuable. But I see any sort of inherent value in drafting a defensive prospect over acquiring one with the same draft pick. If anything, I'd prefer a guy who is one or two years closer to making an impact over someone like Zadorov, who might need 3 or 4 more seasons (2 in juniors, 1-2 in the AHL).

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05-02-2013, 06:15 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I have to say, you're response doesn't really add up. You don't want to trade the pick for a defensive prospect; but you would use it to draft a defensive prospect.

Anyway, I thought that the premise of my proposal was pretty simple: Swap the 11th (assuming a forward is BPA) for an existing defensive prospect of roughly the same ceiling, one or two years further along in development. How does that not address your point (worst prospect pool in the league).

This is absolutely classic HF logic: Underage players > draft eligible players > drafted prospects > young NHLers > established NHL players.

There's a place for prospects, of course, and on a cap team like the Flyers, a contributor on an ELC would be very valuable. But I see any sort of inherent value in drafting a defensive prospect over acquiring one with the same draft pick. If anything, I'd prefer a guy who is one or two years closer to making an impact over someone like Zadorov, who might need 3 or 4 more seasons (2 in juniors, 1-2 in the AHL).
If we can get a defensive prospect with a similar ceiling that's further developed, I'm all for it. Find a team that would do it and I'll be surprised. It's like when people are asking for Couturier for something like the 7th overall pick. That's the same kind of trade we'd be looking for with this 11th pick, like the 11th overall for Gormley or to compare it to Couturier again, Hamilton or Brodin. Being realistic, no way that happens...

I wouldn't want prospects for the sake of prospects, I'd want the kid who can make the biggest impact in the NHL down the line. Realistically I'd do it for Gardiner and probably Gormley, 'cause they have the pedigree to make a huge impact but I doubt the other teams would sniff at it unless they had the chance to get a really high-end forward. Most of the other mentioned defenders in this thread it's again an easy no.

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05-02-2013, 06:37 PM
  #107
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Why not just try to trade the pick for an established top pairing quality dman who still has a number of good years left like:

Shattenkirk

Giordano

Tyutin

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Old
05-02-2013, 06:41 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Why not just try to trade the pick for an established top pairing quality dman who still has a number of good years left like:

Shattenkirk

Giordano

Tyutin
Giordano is the only one of that group that could be available, but that depends on how committed Calgary is to the rebuild. Shatty and Tyutin won't be moving.

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Old
05-02-2013, 06:53 PM
  #109
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Sbisa.

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05-02-2013, 07:51 PM
  #110
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Sharks offer Stalock(top goalie prospect), Demers and their 1st rounder(17th) in return for 11th pick and Simmonds........Philly gets a future replacement for Bryz, a bonifide young PMD and sheds some salary in moving Simmonds.

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05-02-2013, 08:16 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Sharks offer Stalock(top goalie prospect), Demers and their 1st rounder(17th) in return for 11th pick and Simmonds........Philly gets a future replacement for Bryz, a bonifide young PMD and sheds some salary in moving Simmonds.
This is an easy no from the Flyers.

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05-02-2013, 08:19 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Sharks offer Stalock(top goalie prospect), Demers and their 1st rounder(17th) in return for 11th pick and Simmonds........Philly gets a future replacement for Bryz, a bonifide young PMD and sheds some salary in moving Simmonds.
Flyers give up the two best pieces...

No interest in moving Simmonds. No need for Stalock. The remainder of the deal is an overpayment by the Sharks.


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Old
05-02-2013, 11:44 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Sharks offer Stalock(top goalie prospect), Demers and their 1st rounder(17th) in return for 11th pick and Simmonds........Philly gets a future replacement for Bryz, a bonifide young PMD and sheds some salary in moving Simmonds.
That's really bad for Philly.

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Old
05-03-2013, 07:42 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Why not just try to trade the pick for an established top pairing quality dman who still has a number of good years left like:

Shattenkirk

Giordano

Tyutin
St Louis would never trade Shattenkirk for the 11th pick. Probably not for any pick outside the top 3.

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05-03-2013, 07:45 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
If we can get a defensive prospect with a similar ceiling that's further developed, I'm all for it. Find a team that would do it and I'll be surprised. It's like when people are asking for Couturier for something like the 7th overall pick. That's the same kind of trade we'd be looking for with this 11th pick, like the 11th overall for Gormley or to compare it to Couturier again, Hamilton or Brodin. Being realistic, no way that happens...

I wouldn't want prospects for the sake of prospects, I'd want the kid who can make the biggest impact in the NHL down the line. Realistically I'd do it for Gardiner and probably Gormley, 'cause they have the pedigree to make a huge impact but I doubt the other teams would sniff at it unless they had the chance to get a really high-end forward. Most of the other mentioned defenders in this thread it's again an easy no.
Gormley was who I was thinking about when I started the thread--but I think he's value has increased too much. Since PHX is picking at 12 anyway, I doubt they'd move him for another pick, unfortunately.

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05-03-2013, 09:08 AM
  #116
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St Louis would never trade Shattenkirk for the 11th pick. Probably not for any pick outside the top 3.
St. Louis can't even sell out playoff games they've got an internal budget that isn't close to the cap limit.

They added JayBo at the deadline. All of Stewart, Berglund, Cole, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk need raises so I don't think it's completely crazy to think he could be traded.

The Flyers would need to add to something to the 11th. I could see St. Louis trying to trade for Briere in the off-season whose actual salary is only 3 and 2 million for the next two seasons.

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05-03-2013, 09:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Well first off it's sad that Flyers fans would want to trade the pick when we have the worst prospect pool in the league especially since Scott Laughton will soon be a full time NHLer next season ... and this team isn't one young defender away from Cup contention anyway.



^ A 12 player list of players like to go from 1st to 11th. All of whom are pretty much blue-chip prospects with potential to be stars/great players in the NHL. I'd rather keep the pick unless we're going to package it in order to get an already established star/top pairing defender - think somebody like Yandle instead of the likes of McBain, Petry, and co.

I like TJ Brodie and Luca Sbisa a lot, but not for that pick. I'd probably do it for Jake Gardiner if Pulock, Ristolainen, Zadorov and Nurse were all gone at 11. Even then, a high-end forward would have to drop - likely Shinkaruk ... and I'd again have to think about it. I really like the 11th spot for this draft for the Flyers 'cause it'll hopefully give them a defender instead of another forward.

Thanks for your response. I can see the Flyers POV, and I'd agree that they're probably are better off keeping the pick (depending on who's available at 11)...that said, we seem to agree that Gardiner for the 11th is fair to both sides...and there is the possibility that Gardiner just doesn't "fit" into Carlyle's top 6, so the trade might actually make sense for both parties. This draft seems to be loaded with Carlyle's favoured type of defender (big and physical).

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05-03-2013, 09:46 AM
  #118
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St. Louis can't even sell out playoff games they've got an internal budget that isn't close to the cap limit.

They added JayBo at the deadline. All of Stewart, Berglund, Cole, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk need raises so I don't think it's completely crazy to think he could be traded.
Shattenkirk is way more of a priority than Stewart is IMO. They have good winger depth, with guys like Shwartz, Tarasenko, and Rattie looking to make an impact over the next few years. Not to mention Stewart is very inconsistent year to year.

Shattenkirk is a very solid young defenceman, there's no reason for them to move him. He's a priority over other guys.

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05-03-2013, 10:20 AM
  #119
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IF St.L was to look to trade Shatty, would #11 pick + Briere + ? be enough. What would that ? be.

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05-03-2013, 10:25 AM
  #120
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IF St.L was to look to trade Shatty, would #11 pick + Briere + ? be enough. What would that ? be.
Briere won't waive. He's basically said as much. He apparently already declined to do so at the deadline. He has no material reason to do it.

Value /need for Shattenkirk to Philadelphia would be something like:

B. Schenn + L. Schenn for Shattenkirk + _____. That provides St. Louis a replacement 2nd pairing RH D and an offensively-gifted young center with 1B upside. I'm not sure what piece could reasonably be included coming back (Schwartz?), but, as a Flyers fan, I've got no interest in doing anything like that.

The only way Shattenkirk ends up in Philadelphia is an offersheet, in my opinion, and that's not likely.

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05-03-2013, 10:28 AM
  #121
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It's much easier to find top 6 forward who will contribute 50 points than a top 4 defender who will contribute 40+ points. If the Blues have to(and much to my demise) they most likely move a forward and rightly so. Oshie, Berglund, and Perron are probably the three "most" likely to move. Stewart was their best forward for the duration of the season, so it is unlikely they ship him out.

They also have a few young forwards ready to make that jump into big time 2-3 line players. Tarasenko/Schwartz/Ratti.

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05-03-2013, 10:36 AM
  #122
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If Shinkaruk is still on the board I would Move Gio from a flames point of view.

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05-03-2013, 10:49 AM
  #123
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Patrick Wiercioch fits this bill pretty well. Sens would have to add, or have it as part of a swap from whatever their pick ends up at to 11th (Wier + Ottawa's pick for the 11th).

Wiercioch is big, has great offensive instincts, and has put up points in his rookie season. He's made numerous tape-to-tape breakaway stretch passes.

Not saying I'd do this deal if I'm the Sens, but it's an interesting thought. GMBM is known for making a splash at the draft, so something like this isn't out of the question.

What do flyer fans think of Wiercioch?
whoa, easy there tiger - we're not throwing in our first round pick - im not even sure i want to trade Wiercioch for that pick.
Value is probably there but so what?

Now if were to get that pick so we could bundle our pick and that pick for a shot at the top 7or 8 maybe.

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05-03-2013, 10:55 AM
  #124
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When was the last time a prospect or 1st year player was traded for a top 15 pick? I can't recall many?

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05-03-2013, 10:57 AM
  #125
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When was the last time a prospect or 1st year player was traded for a top 15 pick? I can't recall many?
Come on.

Rundblad was traded for the 16th overall in 2010.

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