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I think "there might be some suffering" was a bit of PR by Regier in reaction to....

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05-02-2013, 09:29 PM
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joshjull
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I think "there might be some suffering" was a bit of PR by Regier in reaction to....

....... the hammering the organization took over "winning the Cup in 3 years".



I think they are going to try and turn things around as quickly as possible but don't want to commit to another timeline that burns them. Basically lowering expectations as much as possible and not getting into another pissing match with the press over how long they said it would take to rebuild. I feel some are getting carried away thinking they are planning on have crappy teams for several years.


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05-02-2013, 09:34 PM
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tsujimoto74
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If they aren't planning on being crappy, then Regier probably shouldn't be talking about how to win you need high draft picks either.

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05-02-2013, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
If they aren't planning on being crappy, then Regier probably shouldn't be talking about how to win you need high draft picks either.
Yes he did say the higher end talent is at the top of the draft. On that front he is supposedly trying to trade up in this draft.


Regier also said this http://www.wgr550.com/pages/16208118...entId=12937472


Quote:
“The vision probably started last season at the trade deadline where we began to move in the direction of that were are going have to acquire more top players. I think it began to come clear and Terry’s been very consistent about this, it’s about building for a Stanley Cup, not a playoff run or not two playoff runs.” Regier added, “There are a number of ways you can do it. You can go to the bottom of the league for five years and hope you come across a Crosby and a Malkin and miss on a couple of guys. Toews, Kane or you can try to see if there’s room in between so as not to create that length of time.”

Doesn't sound like someone planning on having years of crappy teams.

I do love his point about hoping for those types of players because thats exactly what it is, hoping. You need to be bad enough the year a franchise player is available AND be in a draft position to get him. I can say without hesitation that the Hawks won the Cup in large part due to some draft luck. The year they drafted Kane they were actually slotted for the 5th overall pick but won the draft lottery. Philly with by far the worst record in the league had to move down and picked #2. So instead of getting a player of Kane's caliber they drafted JVR who is not on the same level to state the obvious. The Hawks good fortune with winning that lottery gave them the perfect 1-2 punch up front with Toews/Kane that lead them to the Cup. The Flyers as the worst team in the league by far got a nice player but not Pat Kane. The point being that even having a crappy year with a high pick doesn't always work out. Sometimes it takes a little luck for things to go your way. In fact since the lottery was introduced in 1995, the worst team in the league only won it 6 of 17 drafts.

EDIT: to get this back to the Sabres rebuild, I don't think Darcy plans on relying on several years of high picks over several years (meaning several crappy seasons) to rebuild. Something that would take a long time.


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05-02-2013, 10:22 PM
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Absolutely agree.

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05-02-2013, 10:33 PM
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I think it's a pretty obvious self-handicapping job, where if we indeed suffer, it's an "I warned you" type thing, and if we expedite the process, it's viewed as a bonus and a "great job" by Darcy in beating his own timeline. It's a win-win; wouldn't expect it said any other way at this point in time.

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05-02-2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I think it's a pretty obvious self-handicapping job, where if we indeed suffer, it's an "I warned you" type thing, and if we expedite the process, it's viewed as a bonus and a "great job" by Darcy in beating his own timeline. It's a win-win; wouldn't expect it said any other way at this point in time.
Thats pretty much my thoughts.

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05-02-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats pretty much my thoughts.
You're spot on. I just was far from surprised, personally, when he said as much, and I know some were aghast when they heard that word repeated. It's classic Buffalo: expect and prepare for the worst, and anything better than that is a bonus.

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05-02-2013, 10:59 PM
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I for one hope they're committed to the sucking long and hard kind of rebuild, because that's the kind of rebuild that eventually works. I don't know of anyone who decided to hover between 7th and 11th for a couple years and somehow came away with enough talent added to win a cup.

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05-02-2013, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I for one hope they're committed to the sucking long and hard kind of rebuild, because that's the kind of rebuild that eventually works. I don't know of anyone who decided to hover between 7th and 11th for a couple years and somehow came away with enough talent added to win a cup.
That would be the Kings. Not even.

I wish I had more optimism about the next several years.

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05-02-2013, 11:38 PM
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Yeah, I can't really argue with you, I echo your sentiments.

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05-02-2013, 11:38 PM
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That would be the Kings. Not even.

I wish I had more optimism about the next several years.
Not at all re: LA

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05-02-2013, 11:49 PM
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Not at all re: LA
Well, they did miss the playoffs for 6 years in a row, then lost in the first round two straight years, then won it all.

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05-02-2013, 11:57 PM
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Well, they did miss the playoffs for 6 years in a row, then lost in the first round two straight years, then won it all.
But got Doughty and Anze and acquired Carter and Richards. They didn't meddle in the middle of the pack and not get a good draft pick and/or acquire superstars in trade. Which was the premise of everything discussed

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05-03-2013, 12:01 AM
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Kopi was picked at 11 doe

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05-03-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Kopi was picked at 11 doe
I understand...but they still got help or "lucky" in the draft...or "hit" on a star...they didn't suck, dwindle at 10-12th place, and just magically improve.

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05-03-2013, 06:57 AM
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Regier said something similar after Briere and Drury left, and he was right on the money.

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05-03-2013, 07:54 AM
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He said there would be suffering to get those sort of picks. I took that as an indication that he expects this to be a bad team and he can reach back to that point as a sort of "told you so" moment when questioned about bad showings on the ice.

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05-03-2013, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I understand...but they still got help or "lucky" in the draft...or "hit" on a star...they didn't suck, dwindle at 10-12th place, and just magically improve.
Let's break down their key playoff performers:
Carter and Richards were brought in, lets ignore them.
Kopitar. 1st round, 11th.
Brown. 1st round, 13th
Doughty. 1st round, 2nd.
Quick. 3rd round, 72nd overall.

Fairly middling for the most part. Lewis was 17th overall, Penner was brought in through trade. Same for Williams. What they did was change coach mid season and light a fire under the team. Also they had a goalie who got hot. Simple as that. The best teams are the ones that work well together, have great chemistry, not a bunch of superstars. Look at the early 00's Rangers. Lots of superstars, complete train wreck.

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05-03-2013, 08:23 AM
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I don't care if Regier was being honest or working an angle. All that matters is how the team develops and if they fail or succeed will be the answer. I actually don't expect a horrible season or two. Getting younger doesn't mean getting worse. Regehr and Leopold were obvious examples to us, even before the team defense became better without them. There's enough talent and committment (based on the last 20 games) for this team to finish 8-12 in the East. That's not what fans want to see, but there's still a number of prospects that need time to develop. I'm just not expecting any certain degree of failure or success next season. We just have to see.

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05-03-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
Let's break down their key playoff performers:
Carter and Richards were brought in, lets ignore them.
Kopitar. 1st round, 11th.
Brown. 1st round, 13th
Doughty. 1st round, 2nd.
Quick. 3rd round, 72nd overall.

Fairly middling for the most part. Lewis was 17th overall, Penner was brought in through trade. Same for Williams. What they did was change coach mid season and light a fire under the team. Also they had a goalie who got hot. Simple as that. The best teams are the ones that work well together, have great chemistry, not a bunch of superstars. Look at the early 00's Rangers. Lots of superstars, complete train wreck.
You can't ignore what they used to acquire Richards and Carter however -- Jack Johnson (former 3rd overall with Carolina who forced a deal) and Brayden Schenn (5th overall and considered the top prospect outside of the NHL at the time of the deal). The Richards and Carter deals don't happen without the talent to make them happen. Buffalo isn't swimming in that end of the prospect pool.

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05-03-2013, 09:05 AM
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You can't ignore what they used to acquire Richards and Carter however -- Jack Johnson (former 3rd overall with Carolina who forced a deal) and Brayden Schenn (5th overall and considered the top prospect outside of the NHL at the time of the deal). The Richards and Carter deals don't happen without the talent to make them happen. Buffalo isn't swimming in that end of the prospect pool.
True. But signing Ehrhoff and Leino as UFAs is a rough parallel to trading youth for Carter and Richards. Granted Leino has been a disappointment (with flashes of great play), but Ehrhoff is as good if not better than Richards or Carter.

Again, I thought it was a rough comparison to make, but I don't think it's a laughable one either.

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05-03-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
Let's break down their key playoff performers:
Carter and Richards were brought in, lets ignore them.
Kopitar. 1st round, 11th.
Brown. 1st round, 13th
Doughty. 1st round, 2nd.
Quick. 3rd round, 72nd overall.

Fairly middling for the most part. Lewis was 17th overall, Penner was brought in through trade. Same for Williams. What they did was change coach mid season and light a fire under the team. Also they had a goalie who got hot. Simple as that. The best teams are the ones that work well together, have great chemistry, not a bunch of superstars. Look at the early 00's Rangers. Lots of superstars, complete train wreck.
You're forgetting the top 5 pick they wasted on Hickey, the one they traded to PHI for a key member of their cup run, and the other former top 5 pick to CBJ for the player that put them over the top. They built a good portion of that team off those high picks.

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05-03-2013, 09:36 AM
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So on the LA comparison, folks have identified 3 different top 5 picks that went into making that team directly or were traded to make that team, plus another top 5 pick that didn't work out. That seems close enough to me to qualify for the long sucky rebuild kind of model. If the Sabres hang in the bottom 5 in the league for four years, I'll say that's in the general area of what they need to do to get the assets to contend.

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05-03-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
So on the LA comparison, folks have identified 3 different top 5 picks that went into making that team directly or were traded to make that team, plus another top 5 pick that didn't work out. That seems close enough to me to qualify for the long sucky rebuild kind of model. If the Sabres hang in the bottom 5 in the league for four years, I'll say that's in the general area of what they need to do to get the assets to contend.
How many fans will be left at the end of that? Buffalo is already supposedly the 'USA's smallest hockey market'. Are there enough fans to stick around, buy tickets and merch for 4-5 abysmal seasons in order to POSSIBLY have a run at a cup? That's assuming that we could make a similar miracle run from 8th to the SC riding on a ridiculously hot goalie, which is actually what they did.

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05-03-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
How many fans will be left at the end of that? Buffalo is already supposedly the 'USA's smallest hockey market'. Are there enough fans to stick around, buy tickets and merch for 4-5 abysmal seasons in order to POSSIBLY have a run at a cup? That's assuming that we could make a similar miracle run from 8th to the SC riding on a ridiculously hot goalie, which is actually what they did.
Not a miracle run. They added Carter and were red hot after the trade deadline heading into the playoffs. Since adding him meant they could score goals.

And Buffalo will be fine. 1) Pegula doesn't care about money; he cares about winning Cups. If he believes this is what the team needs to do to get there, he'll eat any profit loss. 2) If I've learned anything from the Bills, it's that Buffalo's sports fans are loyal to a fault.

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