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Old
05-02-2013, 02:13 AM
  #176
The Zetterberg Era
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
The reason Tatar isn't here is because they sent him down for Nyquist and there are no spaces left.
Doesn't change the fact he hasn't played all that well since going down. He isn't making much of a case for himself down there, so it is getting a little tiring to see people say how much he would impact this roster. He is having little impact compared to what he was doing in the AHL before he came up. What he will play better at the NHL level? Please.

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05-02-2013, 05:37 AM
  #177
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he shouldn't even have to be "making a case for himself" at this point but they keep sending him down anyway

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05-02-2013, 06:05 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Doesn't change the fact he hasn't played all that well since going down. He isn't making much of a case for himself down there, so it is getting a little tiring to see people say how much he would impact this roster. He is having little impact compared to what he was doing in the AHL before he came up. What he will play better at the NHL level? Please.
Well he's young, speedy, and hungry.

None of this guarantees he'll actually contribute, but one thing I am certain of is that the current Wings roster needs speed and scoring. His tenacity for the puck and speed would be a welcome addition.

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05-02-2013, 08:02 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Doesn't change the fact he hasn't played all that well since going down. He isn't making much of a case for himself down there, so it is getting a little tiring to see people say how much he would impact this roster. He is having little impact compared to what he was doing in the AHL before he came up. What he will play better at the NHL level? Please.
I wouldn't blame the guy if he lost some motivation after being sent down. Play his heart out for the Wings and be one of our better forwards but get nothing in return.

Still, I watched the Griffins game last night and he looked very good. I hope we can beat the Ducks without him, and I certainly don't think he's the one guy we need to turn this team into a contender. But as everyone keeps saying, Tatar over Cleary would be an improvement, I'm 99.9% sure of that.

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05-02-2013, 08:13 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
I wouldn't blame the guy if he lost some motivation after being sent down. Play his heart out for the Wings and be one of our better forwards but get nothing in return.

Still, I watched the Griffins game last night and he looked very good. I hope we can beat the Ducks without him, and I certainly don't think he's the one guy we need to turn this team into a contender. But as everyone keeps saying, Tatar over Cleary would be an improvement, I'm 99.9% sure of that.
Agreed. He would be a welcomed addition to the team.

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05-02-2013, 08:17 AM
  #181
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he shouldn't even have to be "making a case for himself" at this point but they keep sending him down anyway
Why not?

One thing that Holland has stated (and so I think it's an organizational thing) is that you can't judge a player based on their first 10 NHL games or so (in a row). For those 10 games or so, a guy is running on adrenaline and can really provide some pop. However, the real test is after that, where the adrenaline has worn off and you can see how a player's skill and mental game match up. I know we point to Tatar's first 10 or so games as if to say "look at how much better he'd be ALL of the time," but it's possible that's not exactly accurate. It's hard to make a case that he didn't tail off a bit during those 9 or so scoreless games.

The other thing is, Tatar wasn't a worldbeater BEFORE his callup and he isn't one now after it. If he's a guy who truly belongs in the NHL, he has to play like it. Nobody earns an NHL job as an offensive player by playing (and scoring) like he has lately (2+2=4 and a -2 in 10 games in the month of April). In all, he had 5+6=11 and a -5 in 20 games since going back down. Those aren't the numbers of a guy who's done with the AHL. Hell, Jurco had 6+6=12 and a +4 across those same 20 games.

I know we say "oh, well, he's discouraged and it's affected his game" but he couldn't have known that he wouldn't have gotten another callup. That would have been a reason to play hard, not sweat the small stuff, and earn another one. It doesn't make much sense to say that he was discouraged and didn't try as hard. If it somehow does, though, it probably indicates a serious character flaw and he won't be long for this organization. What would be next, being 'discouraged' over a lack of icetime?

I think Tatar is going to be a good player, but I don't think the case for Tatar as fantastic NHL-level player right this moment is as self-evident as most of this forum thinks.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 05-02-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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05-02-2013, 08:20 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
I wouldn't blame the guy if he lost some motivation after being sent down. Play his heart out for the Wings and be one of our better forwards but get nothing in return.

Still, I watched the Griffins game last night and he looked very good. I hope we can beat the Ducks without him, and I certainly don't think he's the one guy we need to turn this team into a contender. But as everyone keeps saying, Tatar over Cleary would be an improvement, I'm 99.9% sure of that.
Emerson Etem must be glad he's not in the Wings organization. He would be two years away from any NHL playing time.

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05-02-2013, 09:37 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Why not?

One thing that Holland has stated (and so I think it's an organizational thing) is that you can't judge a player based on their first 10 NHL games or so (in a row). For those 10 games or so, a guy is running on adrenaline and can really provide some pop. However, the real test is after that, where the adrenaline has worn off and you can see how a player's skill and mental game match up. I know we point to Tatar's first 10 or so games as if to say "look at how much better he'd be ALL of the time," but it's possible that's not exactly accurate. It's hard to make a case that he didn't tail off a bit during those 9 or so scoreless games.

The other thing is, Tatar wasn't a worldbeater BEFORE his callup and he isn't one now after it. If he's a guy who truly belongs in the NHL, he has to play like it. Nobody earns an NHL job as an offensive player by playing (and scoring) like he has lately (2+2=4 and a -2 in 10 games in the month of April). In all, he had 5+6=11 and a -5 in 20 games since going back down. Those aren't the numbers of a guy who's done with the AHL. Hell, Jurco had 6+6=12 and a +4 across those same 20 games.

I know we say "oh, well, he's discouraged and it's affected his game" but he couldn't have known that he wouldn't have gotten another callup. That would have been a reason to play hard, not sweat the small stuff, and earn another one. It doesn't make much sense to say that he was discouraged and didn't try as hard. If it somehow does, though, it probably indicates a serious character flaw and he won't be long for this organization. What would be next, being 'discouraged' over a lack of icetime?

I think Tatar is going to be a good player, but I don't think the case for Tatar as fantastic NHL-level player right this moment is as self-evident as most of this forum thinks.
world beater? No, but the guy has earned his call-up and consistent NHL playing time. This is the third season he's scored 20+ goals at GR, by all accounts his physical and mental games have noticeably improved over the past three years, and we don't exactly have a stacked lineup in front of him.

He's hit a rough spot since being demoted, but it's a small stretch in the midst of three seasons of solid effort and production.

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05-02-2013, 10:09 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Doesn't change the fact he hasn't played all that well since going down. He isn't making much of a case for himself down there, so it is getting a little tiring to see people say how much he would impact this roster. He is having little impact compared to what he was doing in the AHL before he came up. What he will play better at the NHL level? Please.
If it's tiring, ignore it.

Tatar has played 4 years in the AHL

He deserved his shot in the NHL more than a year ago. He makes it, he played VERY WELL.

He produces at a great rate.

He doesn't have any boneheaded errors. He handles himself in the corners. He plays a responsible defensive game. And his reward? A bus ticket to the AHL

You don't think Tatar doesn't see who is in front of him? Particularly as Sammy/Bert get healthy?

Truth is, without buyouts, I don't think Tatar has job next year either.

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen
Sammy
Bertuzzi
Nyquist
Andersson
Abdelkader
Helm
Emmerton
Eaves
Brunner
----------12-Skaters------------------------
Resign Miller? 13. Cleary?14. Flip? 15
My guess is that at least one of those guys get signed. If not, I think Holland will sign one replacement on the Market.

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05-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #185
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I think everyone wants Tatar in over Cleary. But you guys are missing the point, it is that he isn't playing very good hockey as of late. His last two games are the first time since his first game back and the games he played before the original callup that he has been consistently dangerous. That is just a fact, I like his speed and compete level but he isn't the be all answer he is being touted as.

I understand his frustrations, I have been worried as far back as heading into this year that this would be a problem. But in all fairness he has been outplayed by both Jurco and Ferraro in terms of our prospects down there.

He is more of a streaky player then some people think. Right now he isn't in a very good streak maybe he heats back up and is realistic by the next series.

I understand the frustration I really do, as someone that thinks Nyquist is better than him and was confused why he wasn't there in the first place, but Tatar runs hot and cold. He was a .80 PPG player in the AHL, but people are pinning our entire lineup taking off with him in it like he is the only missing piece, just don't see it. In a great world they would both be up, the Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar line is what I would like to see, they have chemistry and that would just mean benching Brunner. I just don't think Tatar is going to be the difference in this series and we have to accept who he draws into the lineup for wouldn't be who we want anyway.

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05-02-2013, 04:09 PM
  #186
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I have noticed he is either a half second too late or half second top early when he shoots or tries a deke. It's just a matter of time before the scoring floodgates open. Nyquist is going to end up being a legit top six winger on the Red Wings. And no I don't mean top six like Justin 'I should be working at McDonalds" Abdelkader.

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05-02-2013, 04:18 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I have noticed he is either a half second too late or half second top early when he shoots or tries a deke. It's just a matter of time before the scoring floodgates open. Nyquist is going to end up being a legit top six winger on the Red Wings. And no I don't mean top six like Justin 'I should be working at McDonalds" Abdelkader.
Nyquist is also a player that should enjoy the move to the more high scoring east.

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05-02-2013, 06:15 PM
  #188
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but people are pinning our entire lineup taking off with him in it like he is the only missing piece, just don't see it. In a great world they would both be up, the Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar line is what I would like to see, they have chemistry and that would just mean benching Brunner. I just don't think Tatar is going to be the difference in this series and we have to accept who he draws into the lineup for wouldn't be who we want anyway.
For one, nobody is saying Tatar is the "only missing piece."
NOBODY.

But if you want a guy who doesn't want to pass the puck around for five minutes before shooting, Tatar is that guy.

He's got a very no-nonsense approach to offense that will suit him well in the NHL.

Also, I do don't have any interest in a Nyquist-Andersson-Tatar line. To me, that's asking for trouble.
Maybe two years from now. But not right now.
I'd run Tatar with Datsyuk, Nyquist with Zetterberg or Franzen, and Andersson -- may or not not be used, depending on what I saw out of Emmerton.

I ain't saying Tatar is Selanne.

But who is our Selanne?

In terms of goal scoring skills/hands/instinct -- I rank Tatar behind Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen. And that's it.

A guy like Tatar can make a difference.

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05-03-2013, 12:15 AM
  #189
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05-03-2013, 12:17 AM
  #190
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Breaking: Gustav Nyquist sent down to GR

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05-03-2013, 12:20 AM
  #191
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05-03-2013, 12:29 AM
  #192
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05-03-2013, 12:46 AM
  #193
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05-03-2013, 12:51 AM
  #194
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who?? who are we talking about in this thread? who the hell is Gustav Nyquist? German's can't play hockey, get rid of this guy as soon as possible.

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05-03-2013, 04:20 AM
  #195
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who?? who are we talking about in this thread? who the hell is Gustav Nyquist? German's can't play hockey, get rid of this guy as soon as possible.
Am I missing something funny?

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05-03-2013, 08:41 AM
  #196
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Doesn't change the fact he hasn't played all that well since going down. He isn't making much of a case for himself down there, so it is getting a little tiring to see people say how much he would impact this roster. He is having little impact compared to what he was doing in the AHL before he came up. What he will play better at the NHL level? Please.
i think it is more reasonable to judge him on his time in the nhl than the ahl

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05-03-2013, 09:17 AM
  #197
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05-03-2013, 10:02 AM
  #198
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Love the little hop he makes before getting into position.

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05-03-2013, 12:42 PM
  #199
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Tommy likey. Tommy want wingy.

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05-03-2013, 12:46 PM
  #200
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The best was when Brunner tried to jump on the pile in the celebration and fell down. Does anyone have a gif of that?

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