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I think "there might be some suffering" was a bit of PR by Regier in reaction to....

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Old
05-03-2013, 09:54 AM
  #26
RazielMoshman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Not a miracle run. They added Carter and were red hot after the trade deadline heading into the playoffs. Since adding him meant they could score goals.

And Buffalo will be fine. 1) Pegula doesn't care about money; he cares about winning Cups. If he believes this is what the team needs to do to get there, he'll eat any profit loss. 2) If I've learned anything from the Bills, it's that Buffalo's sports fans are loyal to a fault.
They scored at a pathetic pace, constant 1-0 or 2-1 games. Not sure what your thinking of, Carter helped a bit but Quick got them to that cup. Who do you see doing that in our prospect core?

1) That's not a billionaires mindset. He will fund this team provided he sees cash, or has the promise of a payday. I PROMISE you he will not throw money at a black hole, he'll move the team or change the parameters. A guy like Pegula always has an angle, trust me.

2) 2 seasons after Pegula started and Buffalo fans are turning on eachother, the press, the management and the players. The press are a mess as well. And you throw 'loyal to a fault' in there. Wishful thinking my friend.

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05-03-2013, 11:22 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
How many fans will be left at the end of that? Buffalo is already supposedly the 'USA's smallest hockey market'. Are there enough fans to stick around, buy tickets and merch for 4-5 abysmal seasons in order to POSSIBLY have a run at a cup? That's assuming that we could make a similar miracle run from 8th to the SC riding on a ridiculously hot goalie, which is actually what they did.
The Kings shot differentials from around the deadline on were among the best in the NHL. They had turned it on well before the playoffs and they didn't just ride Quick to a Cup win. They showed (yet again) that a mid-season coaching change can adjust a team's on-ice production. They also showed how to play a heavy game in support of their skill players on their way to that Cup win. Buffalo is just starting to build their prospect stocks. It's going to be a couple lean on-ice years, especially if they trade Miller and Vanek, until they're playoff competitive again, shy of the miraculous.

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05-03-2013, 11:37 AM
  #28
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The Kings were a dominant possession and defensive team all year that finally made the changes (Sutter, Carter, King, Nolan, making Voynov a top 4 defenseman) to put their offense over the top. There was absolutely nothing fluky about that run. I had them upsetting the Canucks in 7 before that series started.

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05-03-2013, 12:16 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
How many fans will be left at the end of that? Buffalo is already supposedly the 'USA's smallest hockey market'. Are there enough fans to stick around, buy tickets and merch for 4-5 abysmal seasons in order to POSSIBLY have a run at a cup? That's assuming that we could make a similar miracle run from 8th to the SC riding on a ridiculously hot goalie, which is actually what they did.
Everyone loves to point to LA as an 8th seed. Yeah they were, but they were also what, 2 points away from being a 3rd seed? It wasn't like they were an 80 point team that snuck up and knocked all the teams off. They finished off at 95 points. If they win the title as a 3 seed no one talks about them the same way I don't think.

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05-03-2013, 12:27 PM
  #30
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The point isn't that we need to follow LA's model. Call it Chicago's model, Pittsburgh's model, whatever, it's the "long sucky" model no matter who does it. LA was simply brought up, incorrectly, as a counterexample, a proposition that shorter faster rebuilds work just as well. We're only arguing that, actually, LA did follow the "long sucky" rebuild model. The actual sucking is what actually gets you the actual assets.

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05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
  #31
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Regier mentioned they have players they are interested in signing as UFA.

DR is not going to plan to be bad to get high draft picks. But he will be a seller at the trade deadline for a few years to get assets in return for UFA's.

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05-03-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
Regier mentioned they have players they are interested in signing as UFA.

DR is not going to plan to be bad to get high draft picks. But he will be a seller at the trade deadline for a few years to get assets in return for UFA's.
If you don't want to go down, you can't come back up. Nobody lays the foundation of a bright future with a few deadline deals while they tread water in 7th-11th place. No pain, no gain. Just wash, rinse, and repeat.

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05-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
'USA's smallest hockey market'.
Can you provide some context for this quote? Is it based on USA Hockey registrations? NHL market geography's? TV viewing audience share? Average personal income or other population demographics?

The Sabres franchise geographic market includes Southern Ontario, most of NY State I believe, west of Syracuse and I thought, even a small slice of Northwestern Pa.

If you got this from USA Hockey and their registrations, I would discount it since plenty of kids and adults playing in Canada wouldn't be counted by USA Hockey. And few adult leagues I have been associated with register with USA Hockey either.

Antedoctally (sp?), in my travels I have found WNY interest and intensity in hockey (at all levels) to be one of the strongest in the Nation. I don't have specific stats for this so I realize I'm being subjective. But my interactions with other hockey communities indicates to me that we are on the level of N England, Minnesota and Michigan when it comes to overall hockey interest. And way ahead of geography's like my adopted states of Colorado, Missouri and Texas (places I have lived).

I realize that from a census population perspective, Buffalo is one of the NHL's smaller cities. But in terms of intensity, I'd say WNY and the Sabres market territory is every bit as hockey obsessed as Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver. (Places I have taken youth teams to tournaments.)

I think Sabre fans are in this for the long run.

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05-03-2013, 03:27 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
Regier mentioned they have players they are interested in signing as UFA.

DR is not going to plan to be bad to get high draft picks. But he will be a seller at the trade deadline for a few years to get assets in return for UFA's.
There aren't huge "Win now" type UFAs this summer.

I'm guessing that he's talking more about end of the line solid vets that can mentor the kids ala Jeep and Teppo at the end of their careers.

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05-03-2013, 06:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I think they are going to try and turn things around as quickly as possible but don't want to commit to another timeline that burns them. Basically lowering expectations as much as possible and not getting into another pissing match with the press over how long they said it would take to rebuild. I feel some are getting carried away thinking they are planning on have crappy teams for several years.
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I think it's a pretty obvious self-handicapping job, where if we indeed suffer, it's an "I warned you" type thing, and if we expedite the process, it's viewed as a bonus and a "great job" by Darcy in beating his own timeline. It's a win-win; wouldn't expect it said any other way at this point in time.
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
You're spot on. I just was far from surprised, personally, when he said as much, and I know some were aghast when they heard that word repeated. It's classic Buffalo: expect and prepare for the worst, and anything better than that is a bonus.
Sullivan pointed out this as Regier's and Black's strategy during his afternoon rant on Schopp & Bulldog show on Monday - and even credited Regier for devising such a brilliant ploy, where he's not only bought himself time and more room for failure but set himself up for a "can't lose" situation. If the Sabres become bottom-feeders, he can claim he knew it and warned everyone; if they overachieve and sneak into the playoffs, he'll boast about being ahead of schedule and Black will credit the quality of the prospects that were Regier's selections. All the while, the vague references to how long the process will take also give him more wiggle room with Pegula. He may have bought himself another 3 years in the GM seat.

It's pure public relations posturing. Behind closed doors, I don't think the Sabres braintrust really knows one way or the other which direction is the right one to embrace - that became obvious when both Black and Regier refused to characterize their direction ("retool", "reboot", "rebuild", etc.) and was further evidenced in Regier's non-committal stance about Vanek and Miller. It seemed any and all options are possible, in typical Regier-speak.

I think Hamilton's assessment is the most salient: the Sabres do seem unsure which is the right way to go and appear to be improvising along the way - kind of in the same middle-ground they always have been, partially committing on several fronts at the same time without ever going 110% in one direction.

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05-03-2013, 06:20 PM
  #36
haseoke39
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
I think Hamilton's assessment is the most salient: the Sabres do seem unsure which is the right way to go and appear to be improvising along the way - kind of in the same middle-ground they always have been, partially committing on several fronts at the same time without ever going 110% in one direction.
I get this sense, too. You don't talk about resigning a franchise goalie and forward at age 30 when you're talking about rebuilding.

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05-03-2013, 06:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Sullivan pointed out this as Regier's and Black's strategy during his afternoon rant on Schopp & Bulldog show on Monday - and even credited Regier for devising such a brilliant ploy, where he's not only bought himself time and more room for failure but set himself up for a "can't lose" situation. If the Sabres become bottom-feeders, he can claim he knew it and warned everyone; if they overachieve and sneak into the playoffs, he'll boast about being ahead of schedule and Black will credit the quality of the prospects that were Regier's selections. All the while, the vague references to how long the process will take also give him more wiggle room with Pegula. He may have bought himself another 3 years in the GM seat.

It's pure public relations posturing. Behind closed doors, I don't think the Sabres braintrust really knows one way or the other which direction is the right one to embrace - that became obvious when both Black and Regier refused to characterize their direction ("retool", "reboot", "rebuild", etc.) and was further evidenced in Regier's non-committal stance about Vanek and Miller. It seemed any and all options are possible, in typical Regier-speak.

I think Hamilton's assessment is the most salient: the Sabres do seem unsure which is the right way to go and appear to be improvising along the way - kind of in the same middle-ground they always have been, partially committing on several fronts at the same time without ever going 110% in one direction.
This is all fine and dandy, and there are some good points here, but how on earth does what Regier tells fans/media indicate they don't have a clear sense of direction or that he's just buying himself time? What GM's ever directly state their plans? Probably about none. Because, in this case, if the Sabres are still "threatening" to re-sign Vanek and Miller, they hold a little bit more leverage in trade negotiations.

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05-04-2013, 02:53 AM
  #38
RazielMoshman
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Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
Everyone loves to point to LA as an 8th seed. Yeah they were, but they were also what, 2 points away from being a 3rd seed? It wasn't like they were an 80 point team that snuck up and knocked all the teams off. They finished off at 95 points. If they win the title as a 3 seed no one talks about them the same way I don't think.
Of course, they set an NHL record as the only 8th seed to win an SC.

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05-04-2013, 03:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I get this sense, too. You don't talk about resigning a franchise goalie and forward at age 30 when you're talking about rebuilding.
To the public.....yes you do.

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05-05-2013, 10:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I get this sense, too. You don't talk about resigning a franchise goalie and forward at age 30 when you're talking about rebuilding.
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
To the public.....yes you do.
Whether as a compliment or as a criticism, most everyone has acknowledged the degree to which Pegula acts out of loyalties he feels. It was proven with him keeping Ruff for 2 years and continuing his faith/trust/appreciation in Regier with the extension in January.

Pegula has been a big supporter of both Miller and Vanek - so I don't think the probability that he spoke with each player about how much they mean to the team as a part of their future should be casually dismissed. He may have told Regier that if some team offers a ransom for either, or if either player rejects the Sabres outright, to consider trades but I don't think Pegula is eager to lose either player. His loyalties to each could very well lead to extensions for at least one of, if not both, of them IMO.

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05-05-2013, 11:07 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
So on the LA comparison, folks have identified 3 different top 5 picks that went into making that team directly or were traded to make that team, plus another top 5 pick that didn't work out. That seems close enough to me to qualify for the long sucky rebuild kind of model. If the Sabres hang in the bottom 5 in the league for four years, I'll say that's in the general area of what they need to do to get the assets to contend.
And how exactly does a team hang at the bottom of the league for 5 or so years? Teams that stay down that long usually do so for 1 of 2 reasons. They are either a cash strapped franchise (Pens) or a horribly run franchise with bad management/owners (Hawks). I can't think of many wealthy teams (which we are now) that had long stretchs of bottom feeder teams that was an intentional rebuilding plan.

Also with the Pens and Hawks, they would have remained bottom feeders if their respective issues hadn't been corrected. The Pens emerged from bankruptcy in better financial shape, with a new arena and a new favorable CBA. The Hawks previous owner, "dollar" Bill Wirtz, died and his son took over changing their approach completely. Plus both teams were, lets be honest, lucky to land a key piece of their respective Cup teams. The Pens won the Crosby lottery and the Hawks won the draft lottery the year they drafted Kane. The Hawks were supposed to draft 5th overall and after Kane it was a drop off in talent. Neither team wins the Cup without those players.

If posters understood how both the Pens and Hawks Cup teams came together. They would realize they are not repeatable models for rebuilding a team.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-05-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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Old
05-05-2013, 04:11 PM
  #42
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6 years ago Regier said "we are going to be less competitive" after losing Drury and Briere. Now he is saying "there might be some suffering".

If you can believe, 6 years before Drury/Briere he traded Mike Peca.

6 years from now Regier will reveal that he is the Devil! Im scared.

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