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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
05-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #126
Larry44
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Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
Why are people here so high on Zadorov?
We've seen him play.

Read the article in which Dale Hunter compared him to Larry Robinson. Big, fast, mobile, nimble, skilled, and aggressive. And wants to be in North America and the NHL. He's got more offensive talent than he's being given credit for. He knows how to lead the rush, join the rush, and slip in backside on the PP already.

If the Knights make it to the Memorial Cup, the secret will be out and I doubt Zadorov will make it to 11, frankly.

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05-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
We've seen him play.

Read the article in which Dale Hunter compared him to Larry Robinson. Big, fast, mobile, nimble, skilled, and aggressive. And wants to be in North America and the NHL. He's got more offensive talent than he's being given credit for. He knows how to lead the rush, join the rush, and slip in backside on the PP already.

If the Knights make it to the Memorial Cup, the secret will be out and I doubt Zadorov will make it to 11, frankly.
Not to say your wrong but there are people on the prospect board who has watched him play and is on similar thought as reduxs. He's extremely raw. There is a difference between having offensive talent and actually showing it. I guess as someone who isn't on the Zadorov boat I hope someone takes him before us. Means someone else has dropped

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05-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
We've seen him play.

Read the article in which Dale Hunter compared him to Larry Robinson. Big, fast, mobile, nimble, skilled, and aggressive. And wants to be in North America and the NHL. He's got more offensive talent than he's being given credit for. He knows how to lead the rush, join the rush, and slip in backside on the PP already.

If the Knights make it to the Memorial Cup, the secret will be out and I doubt Zadorov will make it to 11, frankly.
Here is the article. (It was Mark Hunter).

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=656392

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05-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Not to say your wrong but there are people on the prospect board who has watched him play and is on similar thought as reduxs. He's extremely raw. There is a difference between having offensive talent and actually showing it. I guess as someone who isn't on the Zadorov boat I hope someone takes him before us. Means someone else has dropped
It's not about being wrong or right. I've only seen him a few times. I watched one full playoff game on tape and only watched Zadorov. He is very skilled. He played on the PP , so I don't know where this 'he's only a defensive D' comes from. He led/joined the rush, has a great pointshot, etc.

On the other hand, I've never seen Pulock or Nurse or Morrissey, Ristolainen or Morin play at, except for the clips, so I can't really compare them, certainly not well enough to project who is going to be the best player in 2018 or 2022.

And frankly, esp. with Dmen, who control the game if they are good, you can't really tell how good they are unless you see them live. Best example of this was Mark Howe. Whole different dimension live. Controlled the entire ice.

I have the Prospects game saved, so I can see most of the CHL kids, except Pulock, who was hurt.

The great thing is there is going to be a good player for us at 11. In our scouts we trust.


Last edited by Larry44: 05-03-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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05-03-2013, 12:57 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You seriously like Zadorov over all those guys? I like Zadorov myself but not that much.

IMO:
-Nichushkin
-Monahan
-Nurse
-Lindholm
-Zadorov
-Ristolanien
-Pulock

I would take Zadorov over Ristolanien but its pretty close to me. I wouldn't care either way really. I guess I'm more intrigued by Zadorov's upside than Ristolanien's.


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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I agree on Zadorov. I think a lot of people have this view of him being like Shea Weber and going from a guy who doesnt put up points in Juniors and turning him into a shutdown defender that puts up 50 points. When you try to take one of those big defenders and make them into a two way threat, it takes a while. Weber played 2 more years in Juniors and then a season in the AHL. Even a guy like Chara took 5-6 years until he developed an offensive game. For every guy like Weber and Chara who are able to fit that mold there are 20 that turn into Coburn. I'd be more inclined to take a guy with size that already has the offensive game and work to fine tune the defensive game. Personally I think Ristolainen is the closest to being NHL ready and while he wont be a key for a couple years I can easily see him being a 40 point defenseman when he's 20-21 while the other guys may just be breaking into the league.
.
I wasn't ranking Zadorov that highly until very recently, after I had a chance to do more extensive research...videos, articles, interviews, scouting reports etc. I just came away from all of that having a very high opinion of the kid. His attitude is to me especially impressive. He's very poised and seems to relish the opportunity to play against top compeition. He only just came over this season to play in north america and has adapted remarkably well. He has commented that he likes the smaller rink and fast pace.

“[In North America], it’s a very aggressive game; it’s very fast,” Zadorov said. ““I love playing in the smaller rink. I’m a bigger guy, I love the big hit, and I love playing aggressively." “I think I play better here.” Zadorov points to players like Ottawa’s Erik Karlsson and Philadelphia’s Chris Pronger as the players he likes to watch. “I like Pronger. He has a similar style of game,” he said. "Zadorov said he wants to work on “everything” to get better. He said he enjoys working in the gym, trying to add muscle to his already 225-pound frame.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...h-the-knights/

Z has already established a rock solid defensive and physical game but I think maybe some people are discounting his offensive potential. The guy has a cannon, good hands and put up .40 pts per game in his 1st OHL season, which isn't too shabby...compare to Nurse who (at under 9.5 mos younger) had .19 pts per gm in his first OHL campaign last season. I would expect Zadorov's pts per game to increase significantly next season to .50 or more, which in a full season of games would give him 35-40 pts. At 6'7" 230 lbs, with his skating and mobility, positive attitude, strong work ethic, raw skills, and developing two-way game, I think he could be a pretty special player. His size and already strong defensive game combined with his offensive potential just seem to grade out to me as a stronger pick than most of the other D's not named Jones. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me he has the goods to be an impact player in the NHL...I think some teams who had a chance could end up regretting passing up on him. That isn't to say I don't also like Nurse, Pulock and to a lesser extent Ristolainen...I guess I just have a thing for Zadorov right now.

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05-03-2013, 12:57 PM
  #131
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Just read THN's draft preview. Some of their rankings are really weird. Rist is at 22...

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Old
05-03-2013, 01:00 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
From the TSN archives, Setoguchi was rated at 26th and was drafted 8th. That is a pretty big jump given Bob's list is a pool of head scouts.

EDIT: Here is the link to top 30 vs where taken from 2004 (I wish they had all twenty years McKenzie has done it):

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=10903
Steve Downie was in the 70s I thought when the Flyers took him at the end of the 1st round.

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05-03-2013, 01:12 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Steve Downie was in the 70s I thought when the Flyers took him at the end of the 1st round.
Prime reason why people need to stop guaranteeing how players will turn out:

Quote:
3 Cam Barker, D Chicago Blackhawks 3
4 Al Montoya, G New York Rangers 6
5 Lauri Tukonen, C Los Angeles Kings 11
6 Marek Schwarz, G St. Louis Blues 17
8 A.J. Thelen, D Minnesota Wild 12
10 Rostislav Olesz, C Florida Panthers 7
12 Boris Valabik, D Atlanta Thrashers 10
13 Wojtek Wolski, LW Colorado Avalanche 21
15 Rob Schremp, C Edmonton Oilers 25
17 Alexandre Picard, LW Columbus Blue Jackets 8
19 Kyle Chipchura, C Montreal Canadiens 18
23 Enver Lisin, RW Phoenix Coyotes 50
24 Petteri Nokelainen, RW Boston Bruins 16
25 Lukas Kaspar, LW San Jose Sharks 22
26 Johan Fransson, D Dallas Stars 34
27 Kirill Lyamin, D Ottawa Senators 58
28 Kris Chucko, RW Calgary Flames 24
29 Roman Voloshenko, LW Minnesota Wild 42

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Old
05-03-2013, 01:49 PM
  #134
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What is that list exactly? It shouldn't be too hard to fill out a full top 30 of draft busts from the last 20 years.

#1 Patrik Stefan

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Old
05-03-2013, 01:56 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Prime reason why people need to stop guaranteeing how players will turn out:
Exactly. Outside of the few can't miss guys in the draft (this year Jones, Drouin, and MacKinnon) anything can, and usually does happen. Every year guys ranked in the 20s go in the top ten. Every year guys ranked in the top ten go in the 20s. Guys in the 40s-50s go in the first round. Guys in the 20s go in the second round. The ISS an other rankings are what THEIR scouts think of the players. The teams have their own scouts to do their scouting for them.

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05-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
What is that list exactly? It shouldn't be too hard to fill out a full top 30 of draft busts from the last 20 years.

#1 Patrik Stefan
#1 Alexandre Daigle, just before this Christopher Pronger guy.

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05-03-2013, 02:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
#1 Alexandre Daigle, just before this Christopher Pronger guy.
Stefan is worse. Daigle had some good years with Minnesota and a few brief moments. Stefan did nothing.

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05-03-2013, 02:07 PM
  #138
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#1 Alexandre Daigle, just before this Christopher Pronger guy.
To Daigle's credit, he at least had way more of a career than Stefan.

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Old
05-03-2013, 02:12 PM
  #139
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The 1999 first round is a wasteland outside of the Sedins.

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Old
05-03-2013, 02:57 PM
  #140
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Never said i dont expect lower ranked guyd to go higher. Just that a big defensive d with below average puck skill going 11 seems like a huge risk to me. But what do i know i havent personally watched him play. I personally expect them to grab a guy ranked 15-25 with the 11th pick.

On Zadorov i have read and talked to people the past few hours and have warmed up alittle. I still have risto infront of him but he jumped pulock for me.

I think we should start discussing players ranked 15-25. I truely have a feeling Homer will go that way

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05-03-2013, 03:00 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Never said i dont expect lower ranked guyd to go higher. Just that a big defensive d with below average puck skill going 11 seems like a huge risk to me. But what do i know i havent personally watched him play.

On Zadorov i have read and talked to people the past few hours and have warmed up alittle. I still have risto infront of him but he jumped pulock for me.
Since about late feb/mid march, Zadorov's offense has began picking up

I'm excited to see how high a memorial cup run can push him up

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05-03-2013, 03:04 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Since about late feb/mid march, Zadorov's offense has began picking up

I'm excited to see how high a memorial cup run can push him up
I dont like going off of points when honestly he is playing on the chl's best squad. A good amount of first round picks all over.

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05-03-2013, 03:04 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Z has already established a rock solid defensive and physical game but I think maybe some people are discounting his offensive potential. The guy has a cannon, good hands and put up .40 pts per game in his 1st OHL season, which isn't too shabby...compare to Nurse who (at under 9.5 mos younger) had .19 pts per gm in his first OHL campaign last season. I would expect Zadorov's pts per game to increase significantly next season to .50 or more, which in a full season of games would give him 35-40 pts. At 6'7" 230 lbs, with his skating and mobility, positive attitude, strong work ethic, raw skills, and developing two-way game, I think he could be a pretty special player. His size and already strong defensive game combined with his offensive potential just seem to grade out to me as a stronger pick than most of the other D's not named Jones. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me he has the goods to be an impact player in the NHL...I think some teams who had a chance could end up regretting passing up on him. That isn't to say I don't also like Nurse, Pulock and to a lesser extent Ristolainen...I guess I just have a thing for Zadorov right now.
You say 9.5 months like it's not a big difference. There's a big difference between a 16 year old rookie defenseman and a 17 year old so you can't really compare Nurse's numbers when he was 16 to Zadorov's when he was 17. Not to mention, a lot of scouts think Nurse won't be a major offensive threat in the NHL. Zadorov's offensive numbers in Russia when he was 16 were even worse than when he was 17, 6 points in 41 games. Not saying he doesn't have any offensive skill but I see him in the NHL as a potential shut down guy that will chip in with 30-35 points a year. Also, Everywhere I have read, he's listed at 6'5 not 6'7.

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05-03-2013, 03:05 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Since about late feb/mid march, Zadorov's offense has began picking up

I'm excited to see how high a memorial cup run can push him up
Hopefully not too far, or he won't make it to us!

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05-03-2013, 03:09 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
You say 9.5 months like it's not a big difference. There's a big difference between a 16 year old rookie defenseman and a 17 year old so you can't really compare Nurse's numbers when he was 16 to Zadorov's when he was 17. Not to mention, a lot of scouts think Nurse won't be a major offensive threat in the NHL. Zadorov's offensive numbers in Russia when he was 16 were even worse than when he was 17, 6 points in 41 games. Not saying he doesn't have any offensive skill but I see him in the NHL as a potential shut down guy that will chip in with 30-35 points a year. Also, Everywhere I have read, he's listed at 6'5 not 6'7.
I think he's still growing.

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05-03-2013, 03:18 PM
  #146
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Honestly, wouldn't be surprised if we took a player not on te list. Flyers seem to do that all the time.

To everyone else, ya it happens every now and then. Don't know how I'd feel with tem reaching for a defendsive defender.
I kind of take pride in my knowledge of the game and try to keep an eye on future prospects. That being said I really did not know much about Sam Morin until recently. But now as I hear more about this young man I have to admit I could see the Flyers picking him at 11. I have been beating the drum all year for Kerby Rychel, but Morin sounds like the real deal and his long range potential is off the charts. He is just not a stay at home defenseman. Morrissey is another player they may grab. I do not know what the heck will happen but at least they should select a player with a bright future.

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05-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #147
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I think we should start discussing players ranked 15-25. I truely have a feeling Homer will go that way
Morrissey or Hagg.

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05-03-2013, 03:52 PM
  #148
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Morrissey or Hagg.
Also forwards (even if we want a defender)

Mantha
Horvat
Hartman
Rychel (good player)
Domi
Lazar (a player Homer would take. Can play center or wing and is a two way guy)
Erne
Wennberg

Just some for example. Homer never chooses who we want so might as well start looking at guys that are ranked lower but Homer might take.

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05-03-2013, 04:00 PM
  #149
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Enough with the rankings already. Different sources have different rankings. ISS ranks one guy here and THN ranks him higher and Craig Button has him too low and blah blah blah. These rankings have no affect on how teams will be drafting. Every single team has their own scouts and these scouts have their own rankings. Some teams may value speed more than physicality. Others may value physicality more than puck handling. Some might look at NHL readiness more than skating ability. It is pointless to worry about who will be chosen where based on where guys are ranked by these independent scouts or pundits.

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05-03-2013, 04:01 PM
  #150
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So do you want the thread locked or something?

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