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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
05-03-2013, 03:03 PM
  #151
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Enough with the rankings already. Different sources have different rankings. ISS ranks one guy here and THN ranks him higher and Craig Button has him too low and blah blah blah. These rankings have no affect on how teams will be drafting. Every single team has their own scouts and these scouts have their own rankings. Some teams may value speed more than physicality. Others may value physicality more than puck handling. Some might look at NHL readiness more than skating ability. It is pointless to worry about who will be chosen where based on where guys are ranked by these independent scouts or pundits.
What else are we supposed to discuss? It is a thread on the 2013 Draft. You don't think Draft rankings are relevant?

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05-03-2013, 03:04 PM
  #152
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Enough with the rankings already. Different sources have different rankings. ISS ranks one guy here and THN ranks him higher and Craig Button has him too low and blah blah blah. These rankings have no affect on how teams will be drafting. Every single team has their own scouts and these scouts have their own rankings. Some teams may value speed more than physicality. Others may value physicality more than puck handling. Some might look at NHL readiness more than skating ability. It is pointless to worry about who will be chosen where based on where guys are ranked by these independent scouts or pundits.
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So do you want the thread locked or something?
Yea Im confused. If you dont want us talking about where prospect land (and such), what do you want us to talk about in the draft thread?

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05-03-2013, 03:04 PM
  #153
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Stefan is worse. Daigle had some good years with Minnesota and a few brief moments. Stefan did nothing.
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05-03-2013, 03:26 PM
  #154
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You say 9.5 months like it's not a big difference. There's a big difference between a 16 year old rookie defenseman and a 17 year old so you can't really compare Nurse's numbers when he was 16 to Zadorov's when he was 17. .
Well, I only cited it that way to show it wasn't a full year...regardless, the comparable is still relevant, as this was Zad's rookie campaign in the OHL and North American hockey for that matter.

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Not to mention, a lot of scouts think Nurse won't be a major offensive threat in the NHL. Zadorov's offensive numbers in Russia when he was 16 were even worse than when he was 17, 6 points in 41 games.
I don't think it's easy to project how Nurse's offensive game will translate. He had a huge increase in production this season and could improve upon those numbers next season...who's to say? Zadorov could follow a similar arc. Either way, I don't necessarily see either of these guys as "major offensive threats" in the NHL, but I would expect they will be able to put up some signficant production in time.

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Not saying he doesn't have any offensive skill but I see him in the NHL as a potential shut down guy that will chip in with 30-35 points a year.
A massive, mobile shut-down d man who can also put up 30-35 pts is just fine with me! I'd take that in a heartbeat.

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Also, Everywhere I have read, he's listed at 6'5 not 6'7
Well, this most recent piece by Hockey's Future, quoting Zadorov's coach, has him at 6'7".

"After all, at 6’7” with a propensity for big hits and a big shot, it’s hard to miss the Russian defenseman."

“He’s an exceptional talent. His tools are amazing for a guy that’s 6’7” - Dylan Hunter Asst. Coach, London Kights.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...h-the-knights/

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05-03-2013, 03:28 PM
  #155
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Morrissey or Hagg.
Or Mirco Mueller.

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05-03-2013, 03:31 PM
  #156
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If its a D-man I think it'll be one of Risto, Zadorov, Nurse, Morrissey...

If its a forward I think it'll be one of Domi, Erne, Rychel, Mantha, Monahan

Homer may have to move up or choose to move down, but those are the projected 1st round players that I think people would say fit the mold of what the Flyers look for. There are others but if I had to bet money I'd bet that we end up with one of the above.

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05-03-2013, 03:54 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Well, I only cited it that way to show it wasn't a full year...regardless, the comparable is still relevant, as this was Zad's rookie campaign in the OHL and North American hockey for that matter.
It's not a full year but it's much closer to a year than not so comparing stats for a 16 year old just because that was his rookie season doesn't really compare. Kids develop a lot in that year (or 9.5 months).

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I don't think it's easy to project how Nurse's offensive game will translate. He had a huge increase in production this season and could improve upon those numbers next season...who's to say? Zadorov could follow a similar arc. Either way, I don't necessarily see either of these guys as "major offensive threats" in the NHL, but I would expect they will be able to put up some signficant production in time.
He could follow a similar arc, or he could not. With the number 11 pick, I'd rather have someone that has proven it by already following that arc, not taking a guy and hoping for upside and him turning into Grossmann.

Quote:
A massive, mobile shut-down d man who can also put up 30-35 pts is just fine with me! I'd take that in a heartbeat.
You want another Coburn? Thats basically what he has been for most of his time in Philly (25-35 points). I want a Suter, Weber, PK Subban, Yandle, Byfuglien, Duncan Keith, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, OEL. I'm tired of guys that max out at 30-35 points.

Quote:
Well, this most recent piece by Hockey's Future, quoting Zadorov's coach, has him at 6'7".

"After all, at 67 with a propensity for big hits and a big shot, its hard to miss the Russian defenseman."

Hes an exceptional talent. His tools are amazing for a guy thats 67 - Dylan Hunter Asst. Coach, London Kights.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...h-the-knights/
He might have grown I guess but just because his coaches say it, doesnt really make it fact. Doesnt really matter though, either way, he's a big boy.

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05-03-2013, 04:19 PM
  #158
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Not to say your wrong but there are people on the prospect board who has watched him play and is on similar thought as reduxs. He's extremely raw. There is a difference between having offensive talent and actually showing it. I guess as someone who isn't on the Zadorov boat I hope someone takes him before us. Means someone else has dropped
The raw offensive talent is there. His shot is a good hard shot that's accurate. I've seen Zadorov take wrist shots from the blue line that goaltenders have had a hard time holding because it's so hard. His slap shot is low, accurate and fast and his snap shot is probably just as good as his slap shot. He's a very under rated puck carrier and he uses his teammates real well (sometimes, he can be unselfish to a fault).

Part of the problem with Zadorov is that coaches see his size and physicality and he's immediately assigned the shut down position as a result. This year in London, it was a different story though in that he went to Dale Hunter and asked to be put in that role so that he could get better at his defensive game and get acclimated with the North American game without worrying too much about the offensive side.

The 2013 - 2014 season will be the season in which Zadorov gets more offensive ice time and everyone should get a better read on how his offensive game will develop. With that being said, top two ice time and top unit PP time certainly won't harm matters any.

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05-03-2013, 04:27 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The raw offensive talent is there. His shot is a good hard shot that's accurate. I've seen Zadorov take wrist shots from the blue line that goaltenders have had a hard time holding because it's so hard. His slap shot is low, accurate and fast and his snap shot is probably just as good as his slap shot. He's a very under rated puck carrier and he uses his teammates real well (sometimes, he can be unselfish to a fault).

Part of the problem with Zadorov is that coaches see his size and physicality and he's immediately assigned the shut down position as a result. This year in London, it was a different story though in that he went to Dale Hunter and asked to be put in that role so that he could get better at his defensive game and get acclimated with the North American game without worrying too much about the offensive side.

The 2013 - 2014 season will be the season in which Zadorov gets more offensive ice time and everyone should get a better read on how his offensive game will develop. With that being said, top two ice time and top unit PP time certainly won't harm matters any.
I think this is why someone like Rist/Pulock would be better for this team. Both do like to hit, but both would be put into more offensive situations over Zadorov (I would feel).

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05-03-2013, 04:33 PM
  #160
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I think this is why someone like Rist/Pulock would be better for this team. Both do like to hit, but both would be put into more offensive situations over Zadorov (I would feel).
Yeah, I think so too. The unfortunate thing about being big like Zadorov is that the big guys are pigeon holed into a role that they sometimes can't dig themselves out of. Such a shame too because I think Zadorov has the skills to be a 40 to 50 point defenseman with a great defensive presence and a meanness to go along with it. Part of me thinks that because of his size, he's going to be in the NHL and whoever his coach is going to be will use him in that shut down role exclusively and not bother trying to develop the offensive side of his game.

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05-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #161
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What else are we supposed to discuss? It is a thread on the 2013 Draft. You don't think Draft rankings are relevant?
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Yea Im confused. If you dont want us talking about where prospect land (and such), what do you want us to talk about in the draft thread?
No but talking about draft rankings saying things like homer is going to take a guy ranked 15-25 or talking about how certain guys aren't going to be available because they ranked somewhere is pointless. We all know the rankings have little to no effect on where guys go. Talking about where a guy should be ranked or where you would rank him, that I get. It makes sense. But all this talk about who the Flyers are going to pick based on a number given to them by ISS or Craig Button or anyone other than the Flyers is a waste of time because I 100% guarantee that few, if any, teams have them ranked the same way.

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05-03-2013, 04:54 PM
  #162
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Yeah, I think so too. The unfortunate thing about being big like Zadorov is that the big guys are pigeon holed into a role that they sometimes can't dig themselves out of. Such a shame too because I think Zadorov has the skills to be a 40 to 50 point defenseman with a great defensive presence and a meanness to go along with it. Part of me thinks that because of his size, he's going to be in the NHL and whoever his coach is going to be will use him in that shut down role exclusively and not bother trying to develop the offensive side of his game.
Might it then be advantageous that the Flyers already have shut-down Dman types coming out of their ... bench gates? Or would it point more to Holmgren and the boys taking a pass on Zadorov because he isn't what they perceive is a need (ie, PMD)? Or has this whole thread got me microassessing every little thing and forming opinions on players whom I haven't seen beyond poorly made "highlight" clips?

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05-03-2013, 05:00 PM
  #163
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This is going to be such an interesting draft. The top 8 picks seem to be pretty much etched in stone and then after that, things get real interesting because the next 20 to 30 picks are really close to one another. DrinkFightFlyers brings up a real good point though about not knowing what's going to happen simply because teams have players rated differently amongst one another.

With that being said, I'm very interested in seeing what the Flyers do because I could see them drafting a guy like Zadorov (being such a safe pick), but I could also see them drafting a guy like Morrissey (especially after his U18 performance, where the Flyers scouts place a great deal of importance), and I could see them totally going out to left field to make a pick (that's what scares me so much about Samuel Morin and the fact that he could be picked).

I also agree with others though that the speculation is what makes things real interesting because there's no general consensus amongst everyone on the board, other than this should be the year a defender is chosen with the first pick. Other than that, the names of defenders are all over the place and there's great arguments as to why each defender should be merited.

It's too bad that other boards on here aren't as passionate about their team as this fan base is.

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05-03-2013, 06:18 PM
  #164
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It's not a full year but it's much closer to a year than not so comparing stats for a 16 year old just because that was his rookie season doesn't really compare. Kids develop a lot in that year (or 9.5 months).


He could follow a similar arc, or he could not. With the number 11 pick, I'd rather have someone that has proven it by already following that arc, not taking a guy and hoping for upside and him turning into Grossmann.


You want another Coburn? Thats basically what he has been for most of his time in Philly (25-35 points). I want a Suter, Weber, PK Subban, Yandle, Byfuglien, Duncan Keith, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, OEL. I'm tired of guys that max out at 30-35 points.



He might have grown I guess but just because his coaches say it, doesnt really make it fact. Doesnt really matter though, either way, he's a big boy.
Coburn only put up 30+ points once, in 2007-08. If he was doing so consistently, people wouldn't be *****ing him out so much. So, yeah, I'd take 30-35 pt/yr and true shut down defender with exceptional mobility for his size...though with his formidable shot developing, along with his other offensive skills, I think he can do more...but part of why I like Zadorov is his positive attitude and desire to get better and better. You don't see a beast quite like this one come around too often, imo.
I think guys like Pulock and Morrissey are more prototypical offensive defensemen. Pulock thinks the game well, can make good passes of all kinds, plays decent d and has a killer shot. He's right in the mix of my top preferences and I'd be excited to have him. I am just envisioning Zadorov turning into a real problem for any team that faces him.


Regarding his size, I trust the team itself and Hockey's Future more than other sites likely using dated numbers from God knows where. Either way, having just turned 18, he's probably going to add even more size.

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05-03-2013, 06:24 PM
  #165
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I think this is why someone like Rist/Pulock would be better for this team. Both do like to hit, but both would be put into more offensive situations over Zadorov (I would feel).
I don't think the Flyers have hesitated to give their D men opportunities to join the play offensively (soemtimes to a fault). If a guy like Zadorov can take advantage of his chances, he'll earn the role and the pp time. I think whoever is taking him is aware of his offensive potential and I would hope they don't get stupid and pigeonhole him as stay at home defensive-defenseman. He has very good mobility, good hands and a very good shot. A team would be foolish not to utilize those skills.

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05-03-2013, 06:32 PM
  #166
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Might it then be advantageous that the Flyers already have shut-down Dman types coming out of their ... bench gates? Or would it point more to Holmgren and the boys taking a pass on Zadorov because he isn't what they perceive is a need (ie, PMD)? Or has this whole thread got me microassessing every little thing and forming opinions on players whom I haven't seen beyond poorly made "highlight" clips?
What you're saying is very valid. It's very possible that Holmgren and company don't view Zadorov as a solution to what they need and they pass on him. It'll take some thinking outside of the box by some organization to let Zadorov become a puck moving defenseman and not pigeon hole him into the shut down role. For instance, I could see a team like Detroit putting Zadorov on that type of development. Same with a team like the Bruins.

With that being said, Holmgren and company aren't idiots either. If they see that Zadorov has the desired puck moving skills that they want, they'll take him and they'll get him on that development path.

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05-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  #167
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Ugh, so long until the draft. Who has a time machine?

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05-03-2013, 08:01 PM
  #168
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. Every single team has their own scouts and these scouts have their own rankings. Some teams may value speed more than physicality. Others may value physicality more than puck handling. Some might look at NHL readiness more than skating ability. It is pointless to worry about who will be chosen where based on where guys are ranked by these independent scouts or pundits.
Very good points. What muddies the water for us observers is that we don't know what the defensive scheme of the organization is. As a result we don't know what skills they want. Perhaps looking at the last time that the Flyers took a defenseman with a first round pick is a clue. Who looks more like Sbisa? Using him as a possible yardstick, physical play may be down the scale a bit and skating and puck handling along with decision making would matter more.

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05-03-2013, 08:30 PM
  #169
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Well, I know after watching a lot of video over the past few weeks, I've come to my conclusion on who the Flyers should draft. I'm a huge fan of all the defensemen this year and think this draft has the potential to be one of the best drafts in the past 25 years with regards to defensemen.

Anyways, after watching a lot of video and breaking it down to things like: mobility, passing ability, shooting ability, defensive awareness, offensive awareness, physicality, and hockey IQ/awareness. Personally, I think the guy the Flyers should select is......Josh Morrissey of the Prince Albert Raiders. He fits all the criteria the Flyers are looking for and with some people wanting trade for Kevin Shattenkirk, the Flyers would have their own Shattenkirk in Morrissey. The selling point for me was his play at the U18. Much like Scott Laughton was last year, Morrissey was the best draft eligible player at the tournament this year. On top of it, that rocket of a shot from the point is a real nice selling feature.

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05-03-2013, 08:37 PM
  #170
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This is going to be such an interesting draft. The top 8 picks seem to be pretty much etched in stone and then after that, things get real interesting because the next 20 to 30 picks are really close to one another. DrinkFightFlyers brings up a real good point though about not knowing what's going to happen simply because teams have players rated differently amongst one another.

With that being said, I'm very interested in seeing what the Flyers do because I could see them drafting a guy like Zadorov (being such a safe pick), but I could also see them drafting a guy like Morrissey (especially after his U18 performance, where the Flyers scouts place a great deal of importance), and I could see them totally going out to left field to make a pick (that's what scares me so much about Samuel Morin and the fact that he could be picked).I also agree with others though that the speculation is what makes things real interesting because there's no general consensus amongst everyone on the board, other than this should be the year a defender is chosen with the first pick. Other than that, the names of defenders are all over the place and there's great arguments as to why each defender should be merited.

It's too bad that other boards on here aren't as passionate about their team as this fan base is.
Why are you scared about them picking Morin over Zadorov? Zadorov is a very nice player but this team has big defensive defensemen. Morin can skate, move the puck, is nasty and has a decent shot. I want what is best for the team but scouts are saying this kid could be a future Chara! That may be hard to pass up. I do think they will pick a defenseman with the 1st pick but this team needs to get bigger down the middle also.

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05-03-2013, 08:38 PM
  #171
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Why are you scared about them picking Morin over Zadorov? Zadorov is a very nice player but this team has big defensive defensemen. Morin can skate, move the puck, is nasty and has a decent shot. I want what is best for the team but scouts are saying this kid could be a future Chara! That may be hard to pass up. I do think they will pick a defenseman with the 1st pick but this team needs to get bigger down the middle also.
That description also fits Zadorov, no?

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05-03-2013, 08:41 PM
  #172
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That description also fits Zadorov, no?
Yeah Zadorov has the potential to be a Chara. Whether he reaches that or not is the question?

Morin sounds more like a Luke Schenn type of player to me.

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05-03-2013, 08:46 PM
  #173
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Yeah Zadorov has the potential to be a Chara. Whether he reaches that or not is the question?

Morin sounds more like a Luke Schenn type of player to me.
From what little I've read, Morin is a much better skater. Coburn might be a better comparable.

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05-03-2013, 08:48 PM
  #174
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From what little I've read, Morin is a much better skater. Coburn might be a better comparable.
He's got good strides but his positioning and footwork aren't that great like Schenn.

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05-03-2013, 08:51 PM
  #175
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Anyways, after watching a lot of video and breaking it down to things like: mobility, passing ability, shooting ability, defensive awareness, offensive awareness, physicality, and hockey IQ/awareness. Personally, I think the guy the Flyers should select is......Josh Morrissey of the Prince Albert Raiders. He fits all the criteria the Flyers are looking for and with some people wanting trade for Kevin Shattenkirk, the Flyers would have their own Shattenkirk in Morrissey. The selling point for me was his play at the U18. Much like Scott Laughton was last year, Morrissey was the best draft eligible player at the tournament this year. On top of it, that rocket of a shot from the point is a real nice selling feature.
How would you compare him to Pulock? I know Morrissey is a much better skater. I've read mixed / contradictory reports regarding their physicality and defensive play.

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