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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
04-27-2013, 05:42 PM
  #126
Horvat2Virtanen
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Way to go Mr. reading comprehension
At the time of the deal I was also majorly opposed to it. IMO the worst part of the trade was when the UFA period was about to open, MG could have essentially gotten a similar D-Man without giving up primary assets, heck assets at all. But hey there's no guaranteeing that any would sign with us.

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04-27-2013, 05:50 PM
  #127
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
I thought at the time it was huge overpayment especially when you look at the Dmen becoming UFA that season, and I was of the mind that if used correctly and with a coach that would be on his ass like a drill Sargent he could be a nice complimentary player assuming him and Kesler could work some chemistry plus I remember him being decent when he was with the big club before he broke his ankle playing soccer pregame

Edit: I also thought we would've been better off including Raymond than Grabner in that trade even if we moved Grabner in a seperate deal
I doubt it.

Thats hindsight thinking.

I can't see why anyone would rather have traded Raymond who was 23 and had just scored 25 goals, instead of a rookie who hadn't proven anything.

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Old
04-27-2013, 06:02 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I doubt it.

Thats hindsight thinking.

I can't see why anyone would rather have traded Raymond who was 23 and had just scored 25 goals, instead of a rookie who hadn't proven anything.
You are incorrect.

I have never really liked Raymond's game which is why I wanted him gone, I was in the minority at the time as 1040 was acting like we just cloned Bobby Orr in his prime and signed him @ the league minimum.

- He was overpaid for what he brought to the table in 2009 let alone now
- He was coming off of major hip surgery at the time and was still on crutches at the time
- I really liked Grabner
- I didn't and still don't like Raymond, I think his 25 goals was an aberration and he was ineffective playing hard minutes
- A similar or better Dman could've been signed that offseason
- You have trust issues if you feel the need to accuse someone of lying on an Internet message board

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Old
04-27-2013, 06:10 PM
  #129
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
You are incorrect.

I have never really liked Raymond's game which is why I wanted him gone, I was in the minority at the time as 1040 was acting like we just cloned Bobby Orr in his prime and signed him @ the league minimum.

- He was overpaid for what he brought to the table in 2009 let alone now
- He was coming off of major hip surgery at the time and was still on crutches at the time
- I really liked Grabner
- I didn't and still don't like Raymond, I think his 25 goals was an aberration and he was ineffective playing hard minutes
- A similar or better Dman could've been signed that offseason
- You have trust issues if you feel the need to accuse someone of lying on an Internet message board
Ya that 760k entry level contract was way too much for the 25 goals and 53 points he brought to our team....

And no he wasn't. Raymond had just come off 25 goals and 53 points and was completely healthy, I think you are getting the seasons mixed up. This happened after 09/10 not 10/11.

And no Ballard was traded for just in-case we couldn't land anyone in free agency. I'm sure the players in free agency have priorities and would like to go where they want, not just do what we want. We were lucky to get Hamhuis, I don't think we would have been able to match the 5 Million Paul Martin got or have gotten Volchenkov.

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Old
04-27-2013, 06:31 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Ya that 760k entry level contract was way too much for the 25 goals and 53 points he brought to our team....

And no he wasn't. Raymond had just come off 25 goals and 53 points and was completely healthy, I think you are getting the seasons mixed up. This happened after 09/10 not 10/11.

And no Ballard was traded for just in-case we couldn't land anyone in free agency. I'm sure the players in free agency have priorities and would like to go where they want, not just do what we want. We were lucky to get Hamhuis, I don't think we would have been able to match the 5 Million Paul Martin got or have gotten Volchenkov.
My point about being overpaid and hurt was in regards to Ballard not Raymond and if the trade did need to be made in case we didn't get anyone in free agency why couldn't we of waited an extra week to make it?

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04-27-2013, 07:51 PM
  #131
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A lot of people didn't like the Grabner trade when it happened, and a lot of people liked Grabner more than Raymond. Personally, I wanted the two of them together on a line with Kesler but Grabner is an actual dangerous, creative forward. Raymond doesn't use his speed beyond the teams system.

All concerns about Grabner seem to have been about his commitment and off-ice habits. He needed more seasoning but he had talent Raymond just did not.

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Old
04-27-2013, 09:09 PM
  #132
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
My point about being overpaid and hurt was in regards to Ballard not Raymond and if the trade did need to be made in case we didn't get anyone in free agency why couldn't we of waited an extra week to make it?
No MG said there were 7 teams interested in Ballard. That's why we had to step up and offer the 1st aswell to get the deal done.

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04-27-2013, 10:38 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
No MG said there were 7 teams interested in Ballard. That's why we had to step up and offer the 1st aswell to get the deal done.
And how many teams did GMMG say were extremely interested in Luongo

Regardless it turned out to be a terrible deal so v0v

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Old
04-27-2013, 11:09 PM
  #134
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Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?

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Old
04-27-2013, 11:11 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?
I would be sad to see Bieksa go, but overall I'd be very happy with that return.

Doubt Florida goes for it, though.

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Old
04-28-2013, 12:07 AM
  #136
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?
Riot.


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Old
04-28-2013, 12:19 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?
Have a riot to celebrate.

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Old
04-28-2013, 12:19 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?
Riot. No questions asked.

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Old
04-28-2013, 07:26 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
IMO the worst part of the trade was when the UFA period was about to open, MG could have essentially gotten a similar D-Man without giving up primary assets, heck assets at all. But hey there's no guaranteeing that any would sign with us.
Who were the similar defensemen available as a UFA? Paul Martin and Dan Hamhuis were the top two free agent defensemen realistically available that year. Others weren't similar to Ballard in terms of age and two-way play and Gillis wanted a mobile two-way defenseman.

The biggest thing was that MG made the deal because he didn't want to gamble on free agency and risk not upgrading the team's defense. The team needed to improve the defense and MG was right. There were no guarantees that MG could sign Hamhuis and who would have guessed that Bieksa would redefine himself playing beside Hamhuis (Bieska as a shut-down defenseman?) and prove to be such a valuable player in the playoffs? And of course, Ballard just proved to be a bad fit under AV and these things happen. A lot of Canucks fans still believe that Ballard is a capable top 4 defenseman somewhere else, just not under AV.

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Old
04-28-2013, 09:47 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post


You disappoint me, you usually seem fairly reasonable, I didn't think of you as a Gillis apologist. It was a bad deal, hell anyone can even see it through rose coloured glasses
Grabner had value, not massive value but nonetheless had some plus the first would've returned much more than Ballard and for the record I was against the trade when it first went down not just now, I was visiting inlaws in SJ and dropped a fbomb in the middle of his business condo.


Also Grabner was waived by FLA but that's on them not us and has no bearing or relavent on this conversation.
It's not about being a Gillis apologist. I am merely basing my analysis on the time of the trade and not with the benefit of hindsight. Ballard was initially planned insurance for Hamhuis, who was garnering substantial offers from both Pittsburgh and Philly. There was no way for Gillis to know the trade would turn out as it did, especially since was a solid player in Ballard, albeit with some slight consistency issues. It should also be noted, other teams were in pursuit of him, thus why Gillis acted fast instead of simply waiting out Hamhuis.

Grabner had no value, if he did Florida would have explored that option in lieu of tossing him on the waiver wire. What GM is going to pay more than a low pick for a prospect that had a horrible training camp and had been somewhat slow in his development to begin with? Meanwhile, Ballard did have value and to say otherwise is evaluating him today instead of then.

It wasn't a good trade because we gave up our first for what turned out not to be a need, but it isn't big enough a blunder I will harp on Gillis about. Every GM has decides they would fancy a do over if they knew what they do now. If this and Luongo are Gillis' we doing okay compared to many other teams.

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04-28-2013, 09:50 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
Can't believe I just read 6 pages of talk about every player on the Nucks except Bieksa.

Anyway I came here to ask this question Nucks fans.

FLA trades Huberdeau for Bieksa straight up, are you happy or do you riot?
Would only trade Bieksa for Sidney Kadri.

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Old
05-04-2013, 12:31 AM
  #142
Sergei Shirokov
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Bump.

Oh and just remember, He has the hockey sense of a gigantic boulder.

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05-04-2013, 12:41 AM
  #143
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Bump.

Oh and just remember, He has the hockey sense of a gigantic boulder.
Someone said Eller+ was good value. I'd do that in a nanosecond if Montreal were game.

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05-04-2013, 12:45 AM
  #144
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Edler and Bieksa are the two of our 6 Defenseman that id move(Ballard being gone this offseason). Both can either be really good or really bad.

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05-04-2013, 12:48 AM
  #145
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Bieksa for a bag of pucks anyone?

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05-04-2013, 01:00 AM
  #146
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Someone said Eller+ was good value. I'd do that in a nanosecond if Montreal were game.
Dw I got juice in the car right now, destination the airport. Get Bergevin on the phone and lets get this deal done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
Edler and Bieksa are the two of our 6 Defenseman that id move(Ballard being gone this offseason). Both can either be really good or really bad.
Keep Eddie, Move Juice Box.

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Old
05-04-2013, 01:01 AM
  #147
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I would trade a dorito straight up for Bieksa. A bag of pucks is overpayment.

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Old
05-04-2013, 01:13 AM
  #148
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Cant believe how inflated Bieksa's value is... Did someone really just offer Huberdeau?

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Old
05-04-2013, 02:21 AM
  #149
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He is also a right handed D-man if I ain't mistaken.

Bieksa is the heart and soul of the team on t he back end, It's evident when he is our of the lineup. We lose games for w/e reason, he is also very physical, plays a Playoff style game, but is inconsistent.

He has actually gotten better over the years, topping during that cup run, but in no way has he been bad since then either.

IMO if you trade him this offseason, you are looking at a 1st + 70+ point forward as a package.

If the canucks go into a rebuild phase in the future, He will command at least a 1st + top prospect at the deadline.

Not everyday a 40 point physical right handed D-man becomes available.
Not every year Bieksa scores 40 points.

Look at what Brent Burns, a younger, superior player, coming off an all star season got. Devin Setoguchi (top 6 winger with attitude problems), Charlie Coyle (top prospect), late 1st (28th; Zack Philips), and a 2nd came back with Burns.

This has nothing to do with his bad play on the overtime goal, I understand that one mistake does not a player make, I wanted to post here earlier but never responded to it. However, Bieksa is not particularly good defensively. He's very physical, but he's below average in his own end for a top pairing defender.

I can't think of any real 70 point forwards that would be available for trade, and that Mike Gillis wouldn't trade Bieksa for. (unless they are old like MSL)

I get that he's good, and very likeable, and plays a playoff type game, but he won't get that kind of return. No GM in their right mind would trade Jonathan Huberdeau for Kevin Bieksa, sorry.

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Old
05-04-2013, 04:20 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Look at what Brent Burns, a younger, superior player, coming off an all star season got. Devin Setoguchi (top 6 winger with attitude problems), Charlie Coyle (top prospect), late 1st (28th; Zack Philips), and a 2nd came back with Burns.
I think the key point you are forgetting is that Burns was going to the a UFA after the year and MIN did not have the money to sign him at the time.

Bieksa has 3 more years on a solid deal.

If the Canucks could get say: Johansson + Kuznetsov + 2015 1st for Bieksa + 2nd...

I'd do it (kind of the same thing right? - would have done it for Forsberg instead of Kuznetsov too).

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