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Where can Miller go?

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:29 AM
  #51
haseoke39
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But yeah I agree with those above who said NYI probably doesn't want to pay anyone anything just to take Dipietro off their hands. The team is nowhere near the cap. Unless Charles Wang wants to give up the team's competitive assets just to avoid losing money himself, I don't see it.

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05-04-2013, 10:48 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
So are we thinking like Miller to NYI for whatever Miller's worth (ideally a couple firsts and a blue chip prospect)

PLUS DiPietro to Buffalo for whatever taking his contract off their hands is worth (probably a smattering of later round picks spread out over several seasons, like four 3rd rounders, say).

So in effect it looks ridiculously lopsided, like Miller to NYI for Dipietro, a couple firsts, a prospect, and four 3rd rounders.

That would be hilarious.
Actually I think Miller straight up would be worth a 1st and maybe a later pick or prospect. For taking DiPietro's negative-value contract I would think that's another high-end pick or prospect. Miller for DiPietro would be around the two 1sts I mentioned and maybe another piece...I think. Like I said though, seems hard to gauge a wonky trade proposal like that.

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05-04-2013, 10:53 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Actually I think Miller straight up would be worth a 1st and maybe a later pick or prospect.
We got a first for Gaustad. I know that was overvalued, but I think Miller's worth well more than Goose. And NYI's first won't be that high this year.

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05-04-2013, 11:22 AM
  #54
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Gaustad and a 4th for a mid 1st.

Miller alone for a 1st and something else, but it depends on the extra pick/prospect, and whether Miller signs an extension (which would obviously add value).

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05-04-2013, 11:25 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
We got a first for Gaustad. I know that was overvalued, but I think Miller's worth well more than Goose. And NYI's first won't be that high this year.
At the trade deadline when values get inflated. Different position, different timing, not going to be that sort of value.

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05-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
At the trade deadline when values get inflated. Different position, different timing, not going to be that sort of value.
exactly

playoff team needing a gritty, PK/Faceoff specialist who plays hard.... is not the same as goalie trade value..

playoff teams already have their goalie in place...

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05-04-2013, 11:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
And NYI's first won't be that high this year.
NYI is looking at #15 if they lose to Pit. Nashville's pick ended up being #21, but then Buffalo traded up on draft day.

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05-04-2013, 11:52 AM
  #58
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Well, put it this way, if Buffalo gets a mid-round first and a fourth for Miller, I'll be disappointed. I think they can do better.

Although if the team trading for him think there's no chance of him resigning, I can see the dilemma. Maybe you slide in some conditional picks based on resigning, or maybe you try to get the extension first and then deal him. Trouble is, that extension gets awfully tricky if Miller knows the only reason he's signing it is to make him more valuable in a trade. At that point, he's going to want pretty heavy control over where he goes.

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05-04-2013, 12:01 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
At the trade deadline when values get inflated. Different position, different timing, not going to be that sort of value.
Also different draft. It seems like 1sts this year are more valuable than in most.

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05-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #60
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Query: Miller more valuable in a trade than Pominville?

I think the answer should be yes. And if so, I think that getting back the package we got for Pominville (which was overvalued) would be a reasonable return. A first and two good prospects. That should be the baseline.

But something like a first plus a fourth would be a bad deal.

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05-04-2013, 12:18 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Query: Miller more valuable in a trade than Pominville?

I think the answer should be yes. And if so, I think that getting back the package we got for Pominville (which was overvalued) would be a reasonable return. A first and two good prospects. That should be the baseline.

But something like a first plus a fourth would be a bad deal.
I would say no. Miller is a good player, and sometimes even a great one, but I just don't see him holding much trade value right now.

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05-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Query: Miller more valuable in a trade than Pominville?

I think the answer should be yes. And if so, I think that getting back the package we got for Pominville (which was overvalued) would be a reasonable return. A first and two good prospects. That should be the baseline.

But something like a first plus a fourth would be a bad deal.
No.

Pominville is signed for two playoff runs, deadline prices are high, there was likely a larger pool of interested teams, and expensive goalies rarely reap bountiful trade harvests. "Expensive" could have been left out of that sentence, but it does add more weight.

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05-04-2013, 02:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
What are the odds that Edmonton isn't on Miller's "Don't trade me there" list?
Obviously were all speculating who or who may not be on his list. I'm just saying that maybe in Millers mind, the Oilers are closer to a playoff run than the Sabres are and if that's whats important to him, then he may be willing to go there. His wife has been on her own out in CA during the hockey seasons for several years now. So his destination may or may not include a move for her, who knows what all is being factored into this decision.
But the Oilers certainly have young talent and good prospects, I think they are just in need of some "pieces to the puzzle", which includes goal tending.
I'm not sure how much stock to put in the argument that he want's to avoid harsh winter teams. He grew up in MI, has lived through a few NY winters now, so he certainly knows what winter is about and I'm just not sold on it that he wants to avoid it.

just my two cents.....only time will tell.

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05-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #64
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An asset is worth only what someone else is prepared to pay when you decide to sell. A lot of teams want a 65-70 point winger who kills penalties and plays on the power play. After all each team usually has 8 wingers. The market for Miller will depend so much on who will take him on that getting what we see as the fair or inherent value will be very difficult. If we got a mid round first and a little more (second and third) if Miller gets that team to the conference final or he resigns---Darcy will have done well.

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05-04-2013, 05:33 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Query: Miller more valuable in a trade than Pominville?

I think the answer should be yes.

well, it isn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
And if so, I think that getting back the package we got for Pominville (which was overvalued) would be a reasonable return. A first and two good prospects. That should be the baseline.

But something like a first plus a fourth would be a bad deal.
I don't think Larsson and Hackett comparables would be viewed the same way pre-miller trade.

I always find it interesting how mid range prospects are valued pre/post trade... pre trade, Sabres fans were requiring "good" prospects for Pommer, but at pre-trade that mean going for the top 1-2 guys in a team's pipeline... then they make a trade, they get a #5ish guy, and another top 10ish guy... and consider it "2 good prospects".

i loved the pommer trade... but it's interesting in hindsight, what constitutes great trade value

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05-04-2013, 05:44 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I don't think Larsson and Hackett comparables would be viewed the same way pre-miller trade.

I always find it interesting how mid range prospects are valued pre/post trade... pre trade, Sabres fans were requiring "good" prospects for Pommer, but at pre-trade that mean going for the top 1-2 guys in a team's pipeline... then they make a trade, they get a #5ish guy, and another top 10ish guy... and consider it "2 good prospects".

i loved the pommer trade... but it's interesting in hindsight, what constitutes great trade value
While I don't disagree with anything you said, it is a bit misleading when you say Larsson and Hackett are a #5ish guy and another top 10ish guy because Minnesota had arguably the best farm system in the league before the season. I know Hockey Prospectus had Larsson ~60 in their rankings putting him as a low end 2 to high end 3 in most system. Are they great prospects? No, but they're definitely good in my opinion.

Edit: Larsson was #52 overall http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381

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05-04-2013, 05:49 PM
  #67
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While I don't disagree with anything you said, it is a bit misleading when you say Larsson and Hackett are a #5ish guy and another top 10ish guy because Minnesota had arguably the best farm system in the league before the season. I know Hockey Prospectus had Larsson ~60 in their rankings putting him as a low end 2 to high end 3 in most system. Are they great prospects? No, but they're definitely good in my opinion.

Edit: Larsson was #52 overall http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381
I was happy as a pig in **** when we got Larsson... so dont get the wrong idea about my opinion.

I guess my point, is that pre-trade... there was a lot of pointing to the Carter/Richards trades, and names like Schenn and the #8 overall...

All I'm saying is that it's interesting what people consider good trade value pre and post trades

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05-04-2013, 05:53 PM
  #68
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I prefer Poms' return to Carter's honestly

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05-04-2013, 06:12 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
So are we thinking like Miller to NYI for whatever Miller's worth (ideally a couple firsts and a blue chip prospect)

PLUS DiPietro to Buffalo for whatever taking his contract off their hands is worth (probably a smattering of later round picks spread out over several seasons, like four 3rd rounders, say).

So in effect it looks ridiculously lopsided, like Miller to NYI for Dipietro, a couple firsts, a prospect, and four 3rd rounders.

That would be hilarious.
I'd have used the word fantasy in place of hilarious

1.Wang exploring selling the team. He bought out Yashin, Witt and Bates. DiPietro's $1.5m per buyout won't fall on Wang. The new owner will be on the hook.

2.Wang's turned the business side of running the team over to the Barclays group. Ratner's group is among 4 Coliseum development bidders. Part of his proposal, is having 1 Nets game and 4-6 NYI games played at NVMC. There is a lot of speculation that Ratner and the Russian billionaire who co-owns the Nets, will buy from Wang.

3.Isles rely on cheap ELCs and young player contracts to keep payroll low.
Wang's not weakening his team to save $1.5m per, the next owner will be on the hook for.

On Thursday, Staple had a Newsday fanchat and was asked about trading for Miller. Staple says he doesn't see Snow, giving up what the Sabres will demand. I'll try and find the link.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...7071?qr=1&qr=1
1:28
Comment From Brian
What FAs do you see coming to the Island this year or next? Will Snow/Wang ever make a move to bring in a good, contributing FA?


1:30
Staple:
Well, I think it's looking more and more like Mark Streit won't be back. Without knowing much about Snow's plans yet, since he's focused on the current squad, I'd think Marek Zidlicky could fit a short-term plan on D. Big shot, PP experience. He's not terrific in his own zone, but he wouldn't be playing big EV minutes. I don't think there'll be many forwards the Isles will overpay for, not with Strome/Nelson/Nino in the pipeline.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1:37
Comment From Guest
Do you ever think the Isles would make a move for Ryan Miller? Love Nabby but he isnt the long term answer. Miller can provide stabilization in net for years to come.




1:37
Staple:
No, I don't think they would make a play for Miller. Would cost too much in a trade and not much return for just one year and whatever he would cost beyond.


Last edited by CREW99AW: 05-04-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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05-04-2013, 06:20 PM
  #70
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I prefer Poms' return to Carter's honestly
of course you do. it's a homerific position to take.

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05-04-2013, 06:57 PM
  #71
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of course you do. it's a homerific position to take.
Brassard is worth four 1sts tho

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05-04-2013, 07:17 PM
  #72
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The Sabres should ask for a 2014 first and a high end prospect.

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05-04-2013, 07:38 PM
  #73
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The people who think Miller is going to return a large, high-end haul are delusional. I don't care if Darcy is the greatest rip-off artist of all time, the market and value just isn't there.

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05-04-2013, 07:54 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I'd have used the word fantasy in place of hilarious
I was hoping you'd be too occupied with playoff hockey and let this one slide, but nope, you're everywhere.

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05-04-2013, 08:26 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by cybresabre View Post
I was hoping you'd be too occupied with playoff hockey and let this one slide, but nope, you're everywhere.


I'm trying to see who's available, that fits into Snow's youth movement and budget.
With Streit asking for 3 yrs/$16.5m, I think he'll leave this summer.

Coyote and Canuck fans are saying they don't expect Yandle or Edler to be moved,
despite their names be tossed into rumors. I'd hope Snow would call the Sabres, see if he can't land a 2nd pairing veteran replacement.

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