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We are really missing Orpik

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Old
05-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #26
plaidchuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No, we don't. We won 5-0 with him out of the line-up, and if you think Orpik of all people would've curbed our stupid decision-making yesterday, you haven't been paying attention the past couple years.

Engelland played poorly yesterday, along with just about every other Pens defenseman including Letang and Martin. He was stellar on Wednesday, but you know, what have you done for us lately? Because this is HF where people have the memories of fruit flies, and the more sensationalistic you can make a situation appear, the better.
Yet is pretty funny, Wednesday they were the best ever and Fleury had finally "come of age", after yesterday they are all bums.

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05-04-2013, 03:01 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LeTANGled58 View Post
Orpik was out there for the Cup win

Orpik was out there during our 15 game winning streak.

See, that was easy.
So when the team does well its because of him, and when he does poorly it's not?

Easy indeed. Great logic.

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05-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #28
Sidgeni Malkby
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
This board finally gets what they want (Opik out of the lineup) and now we want him back?
Lol....from what I read on hfboard, I though we already traded him .

I don't think he (or Neal) is a solution to the problem.

Issue is we had 3 easy goals in game 2....we stayed in "run and gun" mode, and they tightened up. We thought we could beat them playing pure run and gun on talent alone and it didn't happen.

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05-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #29
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Yeah the guy really sucked,he only went up against the other teams best line night after night and led the team in hits and blocked shots and ended the season with a plus rating. Other than that he was terrible.

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05-04-2013, 03:35 PM
  #30
pensfansince88
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Last night, we looked exactly like we did last spring when Orpik was in the lineup. He's not a difference-maker, good or bad, anymore. He's just a body.
this. 100% orpik makes no difference in last nights debacle.

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05-04-2013, 04:05 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by pensfansince88 View Post
this. 100% orpik makes no difference in last nights debacle.
I dunno how anybody could say Orpik wouldn't of made a difference last night, Engelland who wouldn't be in the lineup if Orpik was healthy took 2 penalties, the one pp goal NYI got was when Engelland was in the box.

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05-04-2013, 05:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
I dunno how anybody could say Orpik wouldn't of made a difference last night, Engelland who wouldn't be in the lineup if Orpik was healthy took 2 penalties, the one pp goal NYI got was when Engelland was in the box.
Are you basing that on anything in particular?

Orpik had the most minor penalties on the team this year and was arguably our worst decision-maker on the blueline. Suggesting we would've been in a better position - penalty or puck management-wise - if he were playing yesterday instead of Engelland is pretty dubious.

You're just throwing it out there because there's no way to disprove it.

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05-04-2013, 05:48 PM
  #33
plaidchuck
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Are you basing that on anything in particular?

Orpik had the most minor penalties on the team this year and was arguably our worst decision-maker on the blueline. Suggesting we would've been in a better position - penalty or puck management-wise - if he were playing yesterday instead of Engelland is pretty dubious.

You're just throwing it out there because there's no way to disprove it.
Yeah if he matched the rest of the teams performance last night the score probably would have been really ugly.

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05-04-2013, 06:21 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Are you basing that on anything in particular?

Orpik had the most minor penalties on the team this year and was arguably our worst decision-maker on the blueline. Suggesting we would've been in a better position - penalty or puck management-wise - if he were playing yesterday instead of Engelland is pretty dubious.

You're just throwing it out there because there's no way to disprove it.
Engelland had an awful game in every way possible, Its highly likely Orpik would of played a better game then Engelland, I don't know how anybody could even debate this.

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05-04-2013, 06:35 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Engelland had an awful game in every way possible, Its highly likely Orpik would of played a better game then Engelland, I don't know how anybody could even debate this.
The whole defense was terrible, and Orpik's been prone all year to doing the exact same things that you're criticizing Engelland for. Just like he was last year in the playoffs.

It would've helped nothing. But if you think it would have, against all evidence, more power to you.

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05-04-2013, 09:56 PM
  #36
Sidgeni Malkby
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The whole defense was terrible, and Orpik's been prone all year to doing the exact same things that you're criticizing Engelland for. Just like he was last year in the playoffs.

It would've helped nothing. But if you think it would have, against all evidence, more power to you.
Do you think Orpik is our #3, or #4 D?

Whatever number you feel he is....if a lower number was playing instead of him, then we played worse than we could have. That is measurable.

Would anything different have happened if Orpik had played? No way to prove either way.

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05-04-2013, 10:03 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sidgeni Malkby View Post
Do you think Orpik is our #3, or #4 D?

Whatever number you feel he is....if a lower number was playing instead of him, then we played worse than we could have. That is measurable.

Would anything different have happened if Orpik had played? No way to prove either way.
I feel that Orpik's been a poor #4 who's cost us because of his error-prone play with big minutes. So no, the idea that a lower pairing defenseman playing instead of him automatically makes us worse is not "measurable". In fact, it's totally subjective.

Martin was a top 4 defenseman getting big minutes in the playoffs last year, and we got better when he went down to injury and we inserted two rookies to help re-distribute his minutes.

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05-04-2013, 10:04 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The whole defense was terrible, and Orpik's been prone all year to doing the exact same things that you're criticizing Engelland for. Just like he was last year in the playoffs.

It would've helped nothing. But if you think it would have, against all evidence, more power to you.
Agreed.

I'm a big Orpik fan, but he has not been good for a couple of years now.

(It's like I spotted Bigfoot, a Super Reverse homer sighting)

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05-04-2013, 10:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
Agreed.

I'm a big Orpik fan, but he has not been good for a couple of years now.

(It's like I spotted Bigfoot, a Super Reverse homer sighting)
td! It'd be fun to see what ol' SRH has to say about these playoffs, haha.

As for Orpik, ideally we'd move him over the summer to open up some cap space and opportunity for Bort and Despres. Who knows though. The team seems to respect his locker room presence.

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05-04-2013, 10:13 PM
  #40
Sidgeni Malkby
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I feel that Orpik's been a poor #4 who's cost us because of his error-prone play with big minutes. So no, the idea that a lower pairing defenseman playing instead of him automatically makes us worse is not "measurable". In fact, it's totally subjective.

Martin was a top 4 defenseman getting big minutes in the playoffs last year, and we got better when he went down to injury and we inserted two rookies to help re-distribute his minutes.
So you are suggesting that when he is healthy, he should be benched?

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05-04-2013, 10:24 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sidgeni Malkby View Post
So you are suggesting that when he is healthy, he should be benched?
I know that would never happen, so no. But I don't think he's any better than our bottom pairing guys at this point.

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05-04-2013, 10:40 PM
  #42
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We need Orpik for several reasons.

First is that his presence will force Bylsma to play players out of position/comfort zone less.
Second is that Orpik remains our most physical defender.
Third is that he is a lot better than Engelland and Eaton, and I would say that against this Islanders team he is also more valuable than Murray who suffers against pace.

Ultimately though, success or failure against the Isles shouldn't have anything to do with Orpik being there or not.

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05-06-2013, 03:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
We need Orpik for several reasons.

First is that his presence will force Bylsma to play players out of position/comfort zone less.
Second is that Orpik remains our most physical defender.
Third is that he is a lot better than Engelland and Eaton, and I would say that against this Islanders team he is also more valuable than Murray who suffers against pace.

Ultimately though, success or failure against the Isles shouldn't have anything to do with Orpik being there or not.
Orpik is not better than Eaton or Murray. He has some advantages over those two, but he is certainly not better compared even up against either of those D. Right now, I would say our D are ranked as (and should receive minutes) as follows:

#1 Martin when "On", for pure defensive play, functional offensive skills
#2 Letang when not being a moron
#3/4 Eaton for straight up defense, decision making, and not taking stupid penalties
#3/4 Murray for steady defensive play, PK, crease-clearer, veteran presence, durability, and underrated passing
#5 Niskanen when he is right, which he clearly has not been this series.
#6 Orpik for all the reasons everyone has mentioned

Orpik is better than Engelland purely due to experience and intangibles. Depres should be physically and experience-wise ready to take over for Orpik next year, and should bring ever increasing physicality as he gets comfortable, rather than being on the decline as Orpik is.

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05-06-2013, 05:17 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Yeah, no. We're not missing Orpik's play. We might be missing him in the dressing room, but he's probably there anyway.

We need to execute better. I think we're missing Vitale's speed and tenacity on the 4th line, and I would love to see Dustin Jeffrey there, as well. If Crosby & Malkin are both back and healthy, I don't really see the need for JJ, but if they're going to put JJ in there, I'd rather see this:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Bennett-Malkin-Iginla
Morrow-Sutter-Cooke
Adams/JJ-Jeffrey-Vitale (with Vitale taking some draws)

Anyway you slice it, I don't see how Glass is better than Vitale in any respect other than maybe dropping the gloves, which doesn't happen very often.
JJ is great on the draws. 18-13 over the last 3 games (58%).
Comparison. Malkin is 50%, Crosby is 27-23 (54%), Sutter 19-23 (45%). He's also a skilled guy who can play the PK, and can play anywhere in the lineup. I have no issues with him in our lineup, and would hate to see him sitting in favor of Jeffrey or Vitale. If anything sit Glass (who I don't actually mind) and dress Vitale.

Morrow - Sutter - Cooke
Adams - JJ - Vitale

As for Orpik... I'd like to see him in the lineup.

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Last edited by Riptide: 05-06-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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Old
05-06-2013, 05:23 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Yeah, no. We're not missing Orpik's play. We might be missing him in the dressing room, but he's probably there anyway.

We need to execute better. I think we're missing Vitale's speed and tenacity on the 4th line, and I would love to see Dustin Jeffrey there, as well. If Crosby & Malkin are both back and healthy, I don't really see the need for JJ, but if they're going to put JJ in there, I'd rather see this:

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Bennett-Malkin-Iginla
Morrow-Sutter-Cooke
Adams/JJ-Jeffrey-Vitale (with Vitale taking some draws)

Anyway you slice it, I don't see how Glass is better than Vitale in any respect other than maybe dropping the gloves, which doesn't happen very often.


Guess I was wrong about him being sarcastic the first time

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:49 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by LeTANGled58 View Post
Orpik was out there for the Cup win

Orpik was out there during our 15 game winning streak.

See, that was easy.
I thought that was because Eaton was in for those games

On as erious note: if this team needs orpik, to win the SC than its already too late. i cannot believe what I am hearing that somehow we need Orpik to win the Cup

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