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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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Old
05-04-2013, 09:00 PM
  #26
Dactyl
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
I still can't understand leaving McD on the ice after already being on for over 2 min. Especially since he took Girardi off.
well didnt torts say that sometimes he cant tell mcdonagh and moore apart? maybe he got them confused

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05-04-2013, 09:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
The good news is Torts saw the scoring problem and moved Boyle up to the 2nd line for overtime.
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Who says he can't make in-game adjustments?
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
I still can't understand leaving McD on the ice after already being on for over 2 min. Especially since he took Girardi off.
i don't think fatigue was 100% at fault there. he could've extended the shift another 20s probably. wouldn't be good for future games, but he's one of the top 2 conditioned guys on the team. he looked fresh when girardi had to get off. even said to my buddy after the whistle "girardi's exhausted, but mcdonagh looks completely fresh and can probably stay out there". he just wanted it out of the zone and screwed up the dump. (that's not to say he wasn't tired, just that i don't think that was the core issue there)... we were getting manhandled in the zone. there's no reason to put the blame on mcdonagh(or torts for tossing him out)

blame it on the system. you're gonna block shot after shot after shot with the best goalie in the league, every so often you're gonna get a bad deflection. we need better offensive strategy to be competitive, and to not block shots til we have no energy to go the other way.

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Old
05-04-2013, 09:11 PM
  #28
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Torts being Torts. He's going to stick to his system no matter what.

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Old
05-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #29
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I love the excuses from Kershaw in the last thread, paraphrasing:

'inept players'

'Renney has world class perfect hockey players in Detroit'

'Elite Wingers can't bring you a cup, or at least it remains to be seen with Nash. Maybe he should move to center.'

It is incredulous. The defense of Tortorella is bewildering and scary. Kel Varn calls out BBKers because his post was not intellectual enough? It wasn't a quality display of analytics? Why should we hold that standard for this team if Torts doesn't offer the same? Because you love what he has to say on Behind the Bench on Sundays? It's quite amusing because 85% of this board has and can see clear as day what the problems of the PP have been all year. And EVEN IF the players were at fault for not moving around enough, for not shooting enough, for not transitioning through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone without having to dump it in, the COACH obviously has not been able to correct it for the entire year. Check that...his entire tenure here. Players have come and gone but yet it is the players who are inept.

The PP had a chance to win us a game on the road today and it couldn't do it. What does Torts do on the practice days? He is so quick to move players around on even strength but yet its a crazy idea to think about putting a guy like Zuccarello on the first unit. Crazy to remove Girardi from all PP situations because the guy for the life of him cannot get shots through. He does not shoot with his head up enough. He shot the puck right into Erat in the 2nd period, then proceeded to go out of position to check Erat to open up a 2-on-1. And yes that was even strength at the time, but it is a prime example of how bad Girardi is at getting shots through.

It is disturbing to hear how emotional McDonagh was after the game. This loss was not his fault and I hope his teammates let him know that. He had no business collecting 3 minutes straight of ice time. It goes back once again to how awful of a coach Torts is. He doesn't trust his other defenseman. It is why we couldn't outlast the devils last year. He wore out the top 4 defenseman. He wore out the Top 9 forward corps. This year he absolutely has a better 6. The forwards are suspect though getting Boyle and Dorsett back helped the forward units. However, Boyle should not have been moved up in OT.

Holtby was shaky today and it was painfully obvious. Yet we did not take enough shots and drive the net to test him more. That is the sad part. And the reason why is the same one as all year, this team can't transition from defense to offense with any momentum. Collapse low, some forwards are going down blocking shots, others that aren't are distanced too far from the point men that they have to work their way all the way back up the ice. They do not move up and down the ice as a unit. They never have enough guys rushing up the ice, or when they do they don't know what to do. They had some odd man rushes today and they didn't know what to do with the puck. Instead of looking to drop pass or stop and pass to the middle, they shielded the puck drove to the net for a backhander and/or went behind the net to start the pathetic cycle game.

But you know what, why should a lot of us be upset? We all saw it coming. We knew the flaws of Torts system all year. Gaborik was made a scapegoat. We got rid of a premiere goal scorer regardless of his struggles. The whole point to getting Nash was to add him as a threat to Gaborik. We're right back to where we were last year. I hate Nash defensively, but I understand when he is not on the ice I don't feel confident at all there is someone who can just bury a puck.

We'll be out by Game 5 because we'll probably split at the Garden. I pray for better but I will not get my hopes up. And maybe we'll put Kreider back in and sit slow as **** Pyatt, or the pointless Powe. You got Boyle back for the PK. Sit Powe.

Time for a new reign in NY

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Old
05-04-2013, 09:52 PM
  #30
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The Rangers 5 on 5 have been the better team in this series, and to be frank, for most of the season theyve out played their oposition 5 on 5.

That's our system

AND IT WORKS.

Our problem has been our PP.

Difference between this year and last year?

Last year we had an elite PK, this year, not so much.

That's the difference between Being in first place and being in 6th place with a HORRENDOUS PP.

Fix the PP, fix everything imho.

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05-04-2013, 09:53 PM
  #31
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14 and 20 record in the playoffs with the rangers speaks volumes
He needs to get his head out of his ***

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:05 PM
  #32
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Honestly it's time to just fire this guy and get someone new in here that can foster offense with what we have and will use the new kids like Lindberg, Fasth, Hrivik, Miller and Kreider correctly.

Teams that possess the puck and play puck possession games win in the long run. A balanced system that focuses on good puck possession and positional defense is what this team needs.

2012- Kings
2011- Bruins
2010- Blackhawks
2009- Pens
2008- Detriot

The Kings, Blackhawks, Pens and Detriot all play or played heavy puck possession games with solid defense when they won the cup. The Bruins less. It's no secret. Teams that have the puck all game and are allowed to make plays out there without being afraid of making mistakes (and when they do make mistakes we just happen to have the best goalie in the world in lundqvist behind us) don't get worn out over the course of a season and are the teams that can have a sustainable offense.

Playing with that type of flow at even strength also transfers over to the PP. How do you expect a team that plays a crash and bang style at even strength to suddenly change mindsets to flow and creativity on the PP?? It's very rare.

Time for someone else. I don't care if you have to search in the minors or juniors for someone who employs that type of system. Just do it.

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
  #33
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Tired of his system of playing not to lose. No PP. No transition game. No freedom for skilled players. No creativity allowed. A hot head who blames the media for everything. Remember the 6-1 game we won against the Pens when he told the new guys to just go out and play? Well, he should do that more often because his system is too restrictive and is killing this team. It's also boring to watch. I much rather lose 6-5 up and down hockey vs losing 1-0 playing not to lose.

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
  #34
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The failure of the powerplay has seemed to coincide with removing Zucc from the top unit.

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #35
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Watching the Blues they remind me a lot of the Rangers. Yes the Blues have more offensive type defenseman than the Rangers 6 has but the overall team is similar. The Blues are really grinding out the Kings. They play strong below the hash marks and behind the net. The big difference is there is more tempo to their game, especially their transition game from defense to offense. There is much more freedom. Their 4th line has been more effective in 2 1/2 games than any of our lines in the 2 losses to washington. It's pathetic. Hitchcock trust his players a helluva lot more. And it is not like they are completely stifling the Kings, the Blues are willing to take chances with Elliot in net. They have been down 1-0 in the 2nd period but have been dominating the play. The rangers have similar talent in different areas but the big difference is the clear freedom they seem to play with. They just go, go, go rather than play a collapsing defense with a timid and hesitant offense. Kreider and Hagelin would do wonders in the Blues lineup.

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Tired of his system of playing not to lose. No PP. No transition game. No freedom for skilled players. No creativity allowed. A hot head who blames the media for everything. Remember the 6-1 game we won against the Pens when he told the new guys to just go out and play? Well, he should do that more often because his system is too restrictive and is killing this team. It's also boring to watch. I much rather lose 6-5 up and down hockey vs losing 1-0 playing not to lose.
I'm tired of the anti-torts straw man group.

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05-04-2013, 11:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I'm tired of the anti-torts straw man group.
What's straw man about it Kel? Everything he said is what has been going on. They play not to lose. They don't take chances with one of, if not, the best goalies in the world. They have NO transition game. Why is it other teams can make rushes up the ice without dumping and chasing every time? Or at least when they carry it into the zone it isn't always on perimeter/boards only to go down low where they would've dumped it in. There is no creativity. He's been here a few years now. It's been the same tendencies with different players. If the players are the ones not playing right why isn't he pushing them to create new offensive habits? Showing them video of each dump and chase that results in weak offensive possessions that have not been any significant threat? He likes that game. He wants to grind opposing teams down. That is how he was as a hockey player, that is what he knows. Unfortunately that style doesn't score goals.

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05-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #38
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No, it's systemic. From the collapsing defense to the boards only neutral zone play, and the behind the net cycling BS in the offensive zone.
Wether or not it is tortorellas fault, the system or the stars just not being in line: that fact is his system has not worked. In the three plus seasons he has been here the team has not performed. The PP stunk and that is totally on him. You can not fire 20 players but you can fire 1 coach. If they are serious about winning (and not just making the playoffs for a pay day [dolan] ) then they need the change to take advantage of what they have. the window is starting o close. It's not now but it is soon.

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05-04-2013, 11:09 PM
  #39
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By far one of our biggest problems is the lack of a good transition game. We are very poor at supporting the puck carrier out of our zone and into the neutral and offensive zone.

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05-04-2013, 11:17 PM
  #40
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Teams that possess the puck and play puck possession games win in the long run.

That was the Russian philosophy and I think it till is.i hate how this team just gives the puck up to fall back on defense.

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Old
05-04-2013, 11:20 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
The Rangers 5 on 5 have been the better team in this series, and to be frank, for most of the season theyve out played their oposition 5 on 5.

That's our system

AND IT WORKS.

Our problem has been our PP.

Difference between this year and last year?

Last year we had an elite PK, this year, not so much.

That's the difference between Being in first place and being in 6th place with a HORRENDOUS PP.

Fix the PP, fix everything imho.
Well, the PP has been garbage for over three years. Can we now blame the coach for that? Or do we still give him pass

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05-04-2013, 11:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
Well, the PP has been garbage for over three years. Can we now blame the coach for that? Or do we still give him pass
It's been garbage since Jagr and Nylander.

Poor transition game, poor match ups, lack of adapting to in game situations...

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05-04-2013, 11:47 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
What are the answers to legitimate questions that go against the "blame everything on torts" idea?

Tired, hollow cliches.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
A real intellectual post here. And you criticize Torts for not being analytical enough?
I love that just you two guys that always come to the rescue to defend the coach. Amazingly loyal - whatever the circumstance. Kind of makes you wonder...

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05-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #44
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The offense/PP of the Rangers has been anemic for close to 20 years, almost annually. None of our coaches have ever been able to fix it. Could it be a problem with every single coach we've had since Keenan? Maybe. Could it be a more deep-seated problem that lies in the ideals of the organization? Honestly, I think the latter is a much more likely scenario given the team has the same exact problems, year in year out.

I think the entire front office needs a purging and an entire new everything (coach+asst coach, a true team identity, methodology/ideals, an updated view of the game) needs to be brought in, aside from the team's on-ice roster. Keep guys like Gorton who understand what the new NHL is. You can bring up Sather's trade prowess all you want, but he's old and tired. He's been old and tired. We need someone new calling the shots, someone with fresh eyes.

I've said it before, but we can't just keep on keeping on with all the same upper-level personnel and constantly changing ~50% of our roster every year. We're just going to be perpetually hoping we'll find the right combination of mercenaries that all hit hot streaks at the right times all together to win us a Cup.

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05-04-2013, 11:56 PM
  #45
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Gotta love Mike Keenan. Was just on NBCSN post game for the Blues/Kings game. He went off about the delay of game rule and how it cost the rangers the game today. He called it a ridiculous rule. He had them show the tape of Scuderi throwing the puck into the Blues bench in St. Louis to get a rest with no penalty. Keenan wasn't calling for a penalty on Scuderi, but pointing out weak the delay of game rule is. I agree. It really is a stupid rule. It's too bad. Keenan was fired up.

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05-05-2013, 12:09 AM
  #46
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Gotta love Mike Keenan. Was just on NBCSN post game for the Blues/Kings game. He went off about the delay of game rule and how it cost the rangers the game today. He called it a ridiculous rule. He had them show the tape of Scuderi throwing the puck into the Blues bench in St. Louis to get a rest with no penalty. Keenan wasn't calling for a penalty on Scuderi, but pointing out weak the delay of game rule is. I agree. It really is a stupid rule. It's too bad. Keenan was fired up.
I actually like the rule. You had teams doing that when they were pinned in their own end. I wouldn't have a problem if things like what Scuderi did were also called a penalty.

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Old
05-05-2013, 12:24 AM
  #47
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I actually like the rule. You had teams doing that when they were pinned in their own end. I wouldn't have a problem if things like what Scuderi did were also called a penalty.
I hate it. I think it's gamemanship. I don't see the difference when Goalie's claim they have a skate problem after an icing, or a center says their stick is broken to buy their team more time after an icing, or when a winger steps in on a faceoff and purposely dives in, among other things. Obviously without the delay of game rule there would be less icings. HOWEVER, I think there should be a cap on it. Basically if you flip the puck into crowd in your own more than 2 times in game, then you start to get penalized.

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05-05-2013, 12:26 AM
  #48
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They could just make shooting over the puck over the glass the equal of an icing — can't change lines if a player shoots the puck over the glass.

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05-05-2013, 12:27 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I love that just you two guys that always come to the rescue to defend the coach. Amazingly loyal - whatever the circumstance. Kind of makes you wonder...
Oooh, ooh, ooh! Let me guess the end of that sentence! Kind of makes you wonder... how two people manage to stay such much more rational than all the anti-torts posters on these boards. Or kind of makes you wonder... how two people managed to escape the meme that a hockey coach actually forces his team not to try to score goals, I guess they're just better than most people. Or kind of makes you wonder... why these two guys bother explaining basic hockey to the people of these boards who by now surely have proven themselves to be too dense and too caught up in video game/movie fantasy land to get real pro NHL hockey.

Nailed it.


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05-05-2013, 12:33 AM
  #50
ImIdaho
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I hate it. I think it's gamemanship. I don't see the difference when Goalie's claim they have a skate problem after an icing, or a center says their stick is broken to buy their team more time after an icing, or when a winger steps in on a faceoff and purposely dives in, among other things. Obviously without the delay of game rule there would be less icings. HOWEVER, I think there should be a cap on it. Basically if you flip the puck into crowd in your own more than 2 times in game, then you start to get penalized.
You don't have as much ambiguity with throwing the puck out as you do when a goalie has supposed equipment problems, and even then, it's up to the ref to call it a penalty or not, just like it is with breaking a stick intentionally.

And honestly, this sounds like crying over spilled milk. When Washington does it..twice, it should be called a penalty, but when the Rangers do it, the rule is stupid.

I like it, keep it, and in McDonagh's case, he stood there a good 3-4 seconds surveying the ice when he did that brainfart.

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