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Old
05-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #251
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Sam Gagner ended up playing mostly with Ales Hemsky this season, and for whatever reason the results were very bad for both of them in the defensive end, despite a history for both players of solid possession play. As a result those two players in particular have been targeted as the guys to move out of Edmonton by the fans of the team.

some people may disagree with this assessment, but Hemsky would be a major steal for this club if we could pry him out of Edmonton.

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05-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by FrailSwan View Post
Honestly, I thought he was nothing but a ragdoll constantly getting pushed around while he was here. I'm not a fan of a small 2C.
he didn't look like a team oriented player
he did look like a ragdoll

I would take eakin over him any day of the week

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05-04-2013, 05:48 PM
  #253
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If I had to choose between Filppula and Roy, I'd take Eakin.



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05-04-2013, 06:14 PM
  #254
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The problem with Hemsky is he can't stay healthy. I like the idea of a playmaking winger because this club needs all the playmakers it can get at center or wing. I just get the feeling Edmonton would like to move the smaller center but doubt they do unless they can get a replacement for Gagner. I still have no idea what's a fair value for him but the delusional Edmonton fan who says Erkisson for Gagner is a fair deal is out of his mind.

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05-04-2013, 06:29 PM
  #255
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The problem with Hemsky is he can't stay healthy. I like the idea of a playmaking winger because this club needs all the playmakers it can get at center or wing. I just get the feeling Edmonton would like to move the smaller center but doubt they do unless they can get a replacement for Gagner. I still have no idea what's a fair value for him but the delusional Edmonton fan who says Erkisson for Gagner is a fair deal is out of his mind.
Hemsky is a tragic tale of an elite young talent caught on a laughingstock organization that has given him nothing to work with for basically his entire career. He needs a change of scenery more than pretty much any other player in the league you could think of.

You know, a month ago I would have said it would obviously be Detroit (who else?) who would lift Hemsky out of Edmonton and receive the benefit of a career renaissance for Hemsky, but now that we've taken this great piece of that Detroit organization for ourselves I feel we might be a team that starts getting the benefit of those kind of moves more and more.

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05-04-2013, 06:31 PM
  #256
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No thanks to Hemsky. He's a bum. A talented bum. He's a very poor man's Alex Kovalev or Alex Semin.

He's unmotivated, and just not dedicated enough. That and yes, his inability to stay healthy.

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05-04-2013, 06:32 PM
  #257
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The problem with Hemsky is he can't stay healthy. I like the idea of a playmaking winger because this club needs all the playmakers it can get at center or wing. I just get the feeling Edmonton would like to move the smaller center but doubt they do unless they can get a replacement for Gagner. I still have no idea what's a fair value for him but the delusional Edmonton fan who says Erkisson for Gagner is a fair deal is out of his mind.
Correct. Re: my post on the bottom of the previous page about Sam.

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05-04-2013, 06:36 PM
  #258
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No thanks to Hemsky. He's a bum. A talented bum. He's a very poor man's Alex Kovalev or Alex Semin.

He's unmotivated, and just not dedicated enough. That and yes, his inability to stay healthy.
you only think he's a bum because he's played on the worst team in the league for many years. Those injuries are because every year he's the guy that's been targeted by every other team as the player to rough up and take out of the game - because god knows that until Hall and Eberle had their break out seasons last year there was absolutely nobody else on Edmonton who was any good at all.

I'm telling you, this guy is going to be a key piece on a Stanley Cup contender when he moves on from Edmonton.

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05-04-2013, 07:19 PM
  #259
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you only think he's a bum because he's played on the worst team in the league for many years. Those injuries are because every year he's the guy that's been targeted by every other team as the player to rough up and take out of the game - because god knows that until Hall and Eberle had their break out seasons last year there was absolutely nobody else on Edmonton who was any good at all.

I'm telling you, this guy is going to be a key piece on a Stanley Cup contender when he moves on from Edmonton.
No. I say he's a bum because I watch a ton of oiler games as I live out here. I know his attitude, I know his practice habits, I know he's the last guy on the ice and first guy off, I see how he can look so good one game and make everybody think he's Gretzky then disappear the next 5, and I know his off ice habits aren't all that admirable. He's just not a guy I want on my team. Attitude, commitment, and dedication mean a lot more than flash.

He may go on to be more of an impact guy somewhere else, but he would have to perform a complete 180.

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05-04-2013, 07:35 PM
  #260
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No. I say he's a bum because I watch a ton of oiler games as I live out here. I know his attitude, I know his practice habits, I know he's the last guy on the ice and first guy off, I see how he can look so good one game and make everybody think he's Gretzky then disappear the next 5, and I know his off ice habits aren't all that admirable. He's just not a guy I want on my team. Attitude, commitment, and dedication mean a lot more than flash.

He may go on to be more of an impact guy somewhere else, but he would have to perform a complete 180.
yeah I live in Alberta as well, I know that those are the talking points the media "out here" has been broadcasting in recent months. The Oilers have a pattern of getting their media shills to denigrate a player and soften the fanbase up to his leaving town right before they stick a knife in the guy's back. They did the same thing to Shelden Souray, who everyone with the Stars organizations says was great for this team despite Oilers fans screaming about what a terrible guy in the locker-room he was.

The fact is that Hemsky is excellent at generating offense by any measure you want to look at. He's been the an all-star quality player for most of the last 6 or 7 years. If the Stars want to move forward as a franchise they'll be looking for guys with the kind of talent that Hemsky has. If they want to keep treading water, then they should feel free to focus on "character" (IE. don't have players from Russia or those other eastern European countries on your team because everyone knows they are soft and not team players)


**You must realize how stupid it sounds to claim that a guy who has 450 points in 600 career games on a mediocre team doesn't practice / is lazy / only looks good once every 5 games. That just doesn't line up with his record of performance.

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05-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #261
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yeah I live in Alberta as well, I know that those are the talking points the media "out here" has been broadcasting in recent months. The Oilers have a pattern of getting their media shills to denigrate a player and soften the fanbase up to his leaving town right before they stick a knife in the guy's back. They did the same thing to Shelden Souray, who everyone with the Stars organizations says was great for this team despite Oilers fans screaming about what a terrible guy in the locker-room he was.

The fact is that Hemsky is excellent at generating offense by any measure you want to look at. He's been the an all-star quality player for most of the last 6 or 7 years. If the Stars want to move forward as a franchise they'll be looking for guys with the kind of talent that Hemsky has. If they want to keep treading water, then they should feel free to focus on "character" (IE. don't have players from Russia or those other eastern European countries on your team because everyone knows they are soft and not team players)


**You must realize how stupid it sounds to claim that a guy who has 450 points in 600 career games on a mediocre team doesn't practice / is lazy / only looks good once every 5 games. That just doesn't line up with his record of performance.
It's not the media blowing things up. It's more than that. And it's gone on longer than the last few months. Try few years. And there's no denying his inconsistency on the ice. If you watch the games then you must see what I and most others who don't have a man crush on his flashiness are talking about. It's like he comes up with a big game to save his arse and then goes back on vacation for a few. He was awful this season too. He has the talent to get his point totals back up in to the 70s, but that alone won't get him though. Like I said he COULD become a more consistent player, but that's gonna take a 180.

Not only that, is he on the upswing or downswing of his career? We lack high end talent so it's tempting, but there's just too many questions there. Yes his dedication, yes his motivation, and yes his health.

Perhaps Dallas can offer a more structured atmosphere and the change of scenery gets him going. But I'm leery of him and it's very warranted.

And if you believe a guy who puts up decent numbers shouldnt have any effort/dedication/drive issues....

you should remember Kent Nilsson or at least know of him (I dont know your age) The guy was as talented as nearly anyone. He put up massive numbers at times, decent numbers otherwise. He was so unmotivated and willing to crumble it wasn't even funny. He drove Mark Messier up the wall and nearly took a Moose knuckle because of it (pardon the term). The Flames eventually had enough of him too.


Last edited by tjcurrie: 05-04-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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05-04-2013, 08:19 PM
  #262
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I couldn't care less about all of the other stuff about Hemsky other than health. He flat out doesn't have the ability to stay healthy. I don't want to give anything up for a player whose health is always in question.

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05-04-2013, 08:30 PM
  #263
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When people complain about a guy taking nights off, it's usually the defensive effort they are concerned about. Yeah Hemsky is not a very good defensive player, and the fact that the Oilers are terrible and spend a solid 60% of the game in their own end probably works to highlight that more than you would notice on a good team. He still has amazing puck skills - the ability to hold possession of the puck and the ability to both set up team-mates to score goals and to score plenty of goals himself. Those are the qualities that Dallas is most in need of.

The closest comparison I can think of on the Dallas roster is Ray Whitney - also a terrible player in his own end, but he more than makes up for it with what he can do with the puck and on the power-play. Whitney does have a reputation around the league as being a very hard working player which may be the point that seperates them in your mind. I honestly hadn't heard complaints in that area about Hemsky until this season by the corrupt Edmonton media but even if he does have to improve his work ethic a change of scenery is the best way to bring that out of him.

I guess I don't really care to fill up this thread with Ales Hemsky speculation, but my last point is what better circumstances could there possibly be to buy a player with elite playmaking talent like Hemsky? Him being on the outs with the Oilers practically guarantees the Stars can get him for less than half of what he's actually worth.

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05-04-2013, 08:37 PM
  #264
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just fyi Hemsky got injured this year because he broke some bones in his foot blocking a shot, and played the 2nd half of the season on that busted up foot (where not surprisingly his production dropped). It was a bad luck injury on a play where he was doing the right thing.

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05-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
When people complain about a guy taking nights off, it's usually the defensive effort they are concerned about. Yeah Hemsky is not a very good defensive player, and the fact that the Oilers are terrible and spend a solid 60% of the game in their own end probably works to highlight that more than you would notice on a good team. He still has amazing puck skills - the ability to hold possession of the puck and the ability to both set up team-mates to score goals and to score plenty of goals himself. Those are the qualities that Dallas is most in need of.

The closest comparison I can think of on the Dallas roster is Ray Whitney - also a terrible player in his own end, but he more than makes up for it with what he can do with the puck and on the power-play. Whitney does have a reputation around the league as being a very hard working player which may be the point that seperates them in your mind. I honestly hadn't heard complaints in that area about Hemsky until this season by the corrupt Edmonton media but even if he does have to improve his work ethic a change of scenery is the best way to bring that out of him.

I guess I don't really care to fill up this thread with Ales Hemsky speculation, but my last point is what better circumstances could there possibly be to buy a player with elite playmaking talent like Hemsky? Him being on the outs with the Oilers practically guarantees the Stars can get him for less than half of what he's actually worth.
It is enticing, and not exactly the worst train of thought. The guy IS talented and I'd never deny that. I'm not even worried about his defensive play either. If he has the puck and we're in the offensive zone (he can learn a bit more structure here too) then I'm not really worried. We'd be getting him for his offense. Not every player needs to be a 2-way guy.

The point about Whitney is correct. They're polar opposites. That is what makes me leery. That and his health. If he wasn't hurt so often, I could more be in favor of us obtaining him. Attitude and what not cold possibly be changed by a different atmosphere and different team mates, I agree. But if I look beyond that attitude/work ethic stuff, he's just injured too often.

It is enticing as he would bring a lot of what we need. If we did make a move for him, I wouldn't throw my remote at the t.v. I'd try to remain positive and hope that he does perform that 180. Because if he does then yes, very good player. Loads of talent. We need that.

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05-04-2013, 09:04 PM
  #266
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I think you look at Hemsky as a guy who can add offense to your club and playmaking this team doesn't have. He also only has one year remaining so hurt or ineffective he's not a burden unlike a guy like Briere if his poor play follows him out of Philly.

Hemsky is an opportunity to keep R. Smith in Austin and Cole on the 3rd line. If he gets injured then the kids can come up and again that's not a bad thing. Assuming the price is pretty cheap I'm in favor. I'd rather go get him than be tied to Filppula for 5 years.

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05-04-2013, 10:18 PM
  #267
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just fyi Hemsky got injured this year because he broke some bones in his foot blocking a shot, and played the 2nd half of the season on that busted up foot (where not surprisingly his production dropped). It was a bad luck injury on a play where he was doing the right thing.
He's had 2 concussions, a knee something or other and a shoulder something or other almost every season the last five or so years. Some guys take a hit and you think they're going to be on the shelf for 4 months but they come back and don't miss a single game. Some guys take an odd puck here, or hit there and their season is over. Hemsky is just ridiculously brittle. I like his skills but why would you want to bring a health question mark into the fold when the best thing for a younger squad is consistency?

Btw, what would you be willing to give up for him. I wouldn't give up a prospect that I can name off the top of my head and a 2nd might be too rich for my blood as well. I just don't see the upside in our situation.

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05-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #268
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Btw, what would you be willing to give up for him. I wouldn't give up a prospect that I can name off the top of my head and a 2nd might be too rich for my blood as well. I just don't see the upside in our situation.
I would probably look at starting with what Vancouver gave up for Derek Roy, a 2nd round pick and a solid prospect.

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05-04-2013, 10:26 PM
  #269
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He's had 2 concussions, a knee something or other and a shoulder something or other almost every season the last five or so years. Some guys take a hit and you think they're going to be on the shelf for 4 months but they come back and don't miss a single game. Some guys take an odd puck here, or hit there and their season is over. Hemsky is just ridiculously brittle. I like his skills but why would you want to bring a health question mark into the fold when the best thing for a younger squad is consistency?

Btw, what would you be willing to give up for him. I wouldn't give up a prospect that I can name off the top of my head and a 2nd might be too rich for my blood as well. I just don't see the upside in our situation.
I wouldn't mind trading our latest 2nd for him, but I don't think that more prospects are really what Edmonton is looking for.

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05-04-2013, 10:43 PM
  #270
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Would prefer something like:

Daley + 10th

for

Hemsky + 7th

Not that exact deal, but something like that.


Last edited by LatvianTwist: 05-04-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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05-04-2013, 10:51 PM
  #271
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Would prefer something like:

Daley + 11th

for

Hemsky + 7th

Not that exact deal, but something like that.
We have the 10th but that deal doesn't offend me. Though I think if you sell Daley all on his own he'll get you a 2nd, a late pick, and a prospect. If Daley is who I have to deal to get one of the centers, then that's fine. Otherwise deal him separate for what I said above.

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05-04-2013, 11:16 PM
  #272
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We have the 10th but that deal doesn't offend me. Though I think if you sell Daley all on his own he'll get you a 2nd, a late pick, and a prospect. If Daley is who I have to deal to get one of the centers, then that's fine. Otherwise deal him separate for what I said above.
Oops, don't know why I typed that.

I don't want to move Daley unless we're moving up. Let's assume we make that deal and we're able to snag Monahan or Lindholm (seems pretty likely IMO). I think this roster next year could actually be pretty competitive:

Whitney - Benn - Chiasson
Hemsky - Lindholm/Monahan - Eriksson
Roussel - Eakin - Cole
Garbutt - Fiddler - Nystrom

Dillon - Robidas
Goligoski - Gaunce
Rome - Larsen
Benn



Nevermind about that being competitive. Looks solid for the future, though. Only 4 major holes going forward (Whitney, Hemsky?, Cole, and Robidas) and all should be able to be filled internally.

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05-04-2013, 11:18 PM
  #273
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wrong thread

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05-04-2013, 11:22 PM
  #274
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Pretty sure Connauton has to be up or basically can't be called up without going through waivers later. One of Robidas/Daley needs to go and please for the love of god do not re-sign Jordie Benn.

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05-04-2013, 11:26 PM
  #275
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Jordie Benn is fine as a #7 defenceman. I wouldn't mind keeping him in that capacity.

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