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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 7.0

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Old
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
  #51
David Strorm
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Seeing as you guys know lots about the Q, what info could I get about Paquin-Boudreau, and Mantha?

As for your discussion on the first page, size is nothing if you don't know how to use it.

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05-04-2013, 11:27 PM
  #52
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Mantha - A lethal scorer with great size. Skating is pretty good too. But here's what concerns many of us: Very inconsistent with the intangibles. Compete level tends to come and go. And to your point, really should be more physical than he is considering his huge body.

Paquin-Boudreau - A buzzsaw type player. Probably has 3rd line NHL potential.

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05-04-2013, 11:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Mantha - A lethal scorer with great size. Skating is pretty good too. But here's what concerns many of us: Very inconsistent with the intangibles. Compete level tends to come and go. And to your point, really should be more physical than he is considering his huge body.

Paquin-Boudreau - A buzzsaw type player. Probably has 3rd line NHL potential.
That's about it. Easy "report" would be to say, Mantha for the upside, Paquin-Boudreau for the safer project. I will say that sometimes, Mantha "competitiveness" or lack thereof has been overblown in some occasions.

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05-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #54
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Who would be an NHL comparable to Boudreau?

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05-05-2013, 01:54 AM
  #55
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That's about it. Easy "report" would be to say, Mantha for the upside, Paquin-Boudreau for the safer project. I will say that sometimes, Mantha "competitiveness" or lack thereof has been overblown in some occasions.
No it isn't. When he shows up he's an easy top 8 pick, when he doesn't, he brings nothing to the table. It is a valid concern.

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05-05-2013, 02:06 AM
  #56
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Really? I would think all of them are 2nd rouund picks.
Dauphin is not one of my draftees, unless he slides into 3rd round. Doesn't seem offensive enough to be top 6 forward. Nor a good 3rd liner, as his size, skating an issue. I just don't see how he translates well to good NHLer. Carrier been questions with his competitveness and intensity all year.

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05-05-2013, 07:51 AM
  #57
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No it isn't. When he shows up he's an easy top 8 pick, when he doesn't, he brings nothing to the table. It is a valid concern.
Yes it is. 'Cause in tons of cases, we've heard that for players that ended up bringing it in due time. We heard it for Getzlaf. We heard it for Brandon Saad. We heard it for tons of players. It's called being young and learning the game. People think that the ones who "brings" it every single game are the norm while in the end they are mostly the exceptionals. Others still have some growth do hockey wise, mental wise and everything wise. Reason why it's tough to predict how a player will end up in the pros. You will NOT pass a player with his talent solely because you think he's inconsistent.

Yeah, he is surely the oldest player in the draft. Yes, oldest, but still a rookie. But a guy that doesn't bring it doesn't have 50 goals and 89 points over a 67-game season. And he surely doesn't have 12 points in 9 playoffs when often, guys that don't bring it, dissappear. Val'D'Or wasn't exactly the force of the league. He helped it becoming relevant.

So you build the kid's character if you have to. A guy that, from your own admission, can be a top 8 when he plays great, you would be concerned to pick based on the fact that when he's not in his game, he's not playing like that? Well that's actually why you hope that scouts think like you and fell for that trap, which I suggest they won't. They might prefer other players than him but shouldn't be detrimental to him for that reason. On the contrary, a guy that has top 8 talent, well you pick him and work with him so he'd become more consistent for your liking.


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05-05-2013, 08:14 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yeah, of course, somebody ask one of the toughest question out there for me....AFter the usual suspects, Poirier who was amongst my top 5 favorite this year and a Q player, or Compher who is also in my top 5 and Michigan bound....Somehow, I think you ask that question so I wouldn't sleep properly tonight.....

I'll go with.....geez....I don't know man.....okay.....Comrier or Poipher. I'll go with Poirier. But just slightly ahead...really slightly. Honestly, couldn't care less if the scenario happens adn we go with one or another.

Then, it's a little easy for me. Not exactly a big McCarron fan who I believe is overrated in this board solely 'cause of his size. So I,ll go with Carrier, Dauphin and McCarron.

Carrier is so underrated it's great for us....hoping Timmins find him great as well.
Haha good to kknow I asked a good question.

You seem higher on Poirier than most and not a McCarron fan. I would love to know why.

I would have had them:
1. Compher
2. McCarron
3. Poirier
4. Dauphin
5. Carrier

IMO Compher is quite a bit ahead and if McCarron pans out, will be a great powerforward. Then its tight between the Q guys. What do you think?

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05-05-2013, 08:33 AM
  #59
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Dauphin is not one of my draftees, unless he slides into 3rd round. Doesn't seem offensive enough to be top 6 forward. Nor a good 3rd liner, as his size, skating an issue. I just don't see how he translates well to good NHLer. Carrier been questions with his competitveness and intensity all year.
I like comparing him to Stepan of NYR, not a guy that pulls you out of your seat but very smart and effective player, he's playing ahead of Richards right now.

Dauphin has similar size skating skills and smarts.

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05-05-2013, 08:33 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Haha good to kknow I asked a good question.

You seem higher on Poirier than most and not a McCarron fan. I would love to know why.

I would have had them:
1. Compher
2. McCarron
3. Poirier
4. Dauphin
5. Carrier

IMO Compher is quite a bit ahead and if McCarron pans out, will be a great powerforward. Then its tight between the Q guys. What do you think?
For me:
1. Compher
2. Poirier
3. McCarron
4. Carrier
5. Dauphin.

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Old
05-05-2013, 08:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Mantha - A lethal scorer with great size. Skating is pretty good too. But here's what concerns many of us: Very inconsistent with the intangibles. Compete level tends to come and go. And to your point, really should be more physical than he is considering his huge body.

Paquin-Boudreau - A buzzsaw type player. Probably has 3rd line NHL potential.
That type of description makes Brandon Saad jump into my head.

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05-05-2013, 09:12 AM
  #62
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why do people want McCarron so bad? The scouts I spoke to compare him to Moen or Paille. Drafting a guy like that in the top 3 rounds makes no sense.

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05-05-2013, 09:12 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
Haha good to kknow I asked a good question.

You seem higher on Poirier than most and not a McCarron fan. I would love to know why.

I would have had them:
1. Compher
2. McCarron
3. Poirier
4. Dauphin
5. Carrier

IMO Compher is quite a bit ahead and if McCarron pans out, will be a great powerforward. Then its tight between the Q guys. What do you think?
Don't know...just a hunch that could very well be way off. Though, don't get me wrong, I'd pick McCarron somewhere in the 2nd if he's there, and I believe he will. Just a question of will he become a top 6 power forward....or another Chad Kilger. I believe people are judging Carrier based on their lack of viewing...I saw him enough to be high on him.

And don't get me wrong again, I'm all for becoming a bigger team. For sure. But I think that while you might be skeptic and prudent towards a smaller kid to know if he'll pan out.....we also need to be prudent for really bigger guys who happen to look man amongst boys because they are actually playing against much smaller guys. McCarron isn't only size....but it's just a question of analysing the guy's play with a little bit of gut feeling. As far as I'm concerned, I,d be honest and say that my McCarron analysis might be very well more feeling than anything else. Not too much "scouting related"...I know... But we are no scouts so I have no problem with going like that once in a while.

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05-05-2013, 09:28 AM
  #64
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why do people want McCarron so bad? The scouts I spoke to compare him to Moen or Paille. Drafting a guy like that in the top 3 rounds makes no sense.
I actually like his potential. Those scouts you talk to don't seem to like him but he's had a nice progression through the year. I find he plays a pretty smart game, he can skate, he screens the goalie on the PP, digs for pucks then comes back immediately in front of the net, makes quick plays/touch passes. I think his game could translate well to the pros.

A complimentary player, yes, but worthy of a pick in the top 3 rounds and the kind of player that is pretty hard to find on the UFA market or through trades if he pans out. Definitely needs to take advantage of his huge frame more.

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05-05-2013, 09:43 AM
  #65
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Don't know...just a hunch that could very well be way off. Though, don't get me wrong, I'd pick McCarron somewhere in the 2nd if he's there, and I believe he will. Just a question of will he become a top 6 power forward....or another Chad Kilger. I believe people are judging Carrier based on their lack of viewing...I saw him enough to be high on him.

And don't get me wrong again, I'm all for becoming a bigger team. For sure. But I think that while you might be skeptic and prudent towards a smaller kid to know if he'll pan out.....we also need to be prudent for really bigger guys who happen to look man amongst boys because they are actually playing against much smaller guys. McCarron isn't only size....but it's just a question of analysing the guy's play with a little bit of gut feeling. As far as I'm concerned, I,d be honest and say that my McCarron analysis might be very well more feeling than anything else. Not too much "scouting related"...I know... But we are no scouts so I have no problem with going like that once in a while.
I saw Carrier a few times and I agree he is underrated but IMO still behind the other 4. I see McCarron as the biggest risk for sure but can possibly become a steal if he becomes like Lucic.
I would definetely take Dauphin or Poirier in the mid 2nd(45ish). I wouldnt be too happy taking them in the top 40. Carrier is slightly behind them(50-60).

I cant argue with what you said though. None of us are scouts.

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05-05-2013, 09:49 AM
  #66
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why do people want McCarron so bad? The scouts I spoke to compare him to Moen or Paille. Drafting a guy like that in the top 3 rounds makes no sense.
Paille is 6" and 200 pounds.
Moen is 6"2 and 217 pounds.

Now McCarron is 6"5 and 227 pounds. He goes to the corners, isnt afraid to fight, goes to the net and has skill. The only knock on him is that he can be inconsistent and should use his size more.

I think he can be a powerforward like Lucic. Moen and Paille are nowhere near powerforwards. And remember, Lucic was a 2nd round pick. He can always develop.

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05-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #67
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That type of description makes Brandon Saad jump into my head.
Or Benoit Pouliot. Or Wojtek Wolski. For every Saad, there's a talented big guy or two with those questions that turned into a major disappointment.

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05-05-2013, 10:01 AM
  #68
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Or Benoit Pouliot. Or Wojtek Wolski. For every Saad, there's a talented big guy or two with those questions that turned into a major disappointment.
True, but he fell and become (or looks ) good. The other had their moments, but then slowed down.

Pouliot is still a servicable NHLer unlike Wolski.

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05-05-2013, 12:02 PM
  #69
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Or Benoit Pouliot. Or Wojtek Wolski. For every Saad, there's a talented big guy or two with those questions that turned into a major disappointment.
Yet, for every guy who's really committed, determined with the greatest work ethic, there's always some guys whose talent don't develop as well as you thought it would and turn up in major dissapointement. But then how do we define work ethic? What are we debating here? Those guys commitement in the gym? Off-ice commitment? Or their desire to play the game in his entirety, defensively, backchecking, hitting? What type of report is "When he's great, he's amongst the best, but when he's not, he's totally invisible? Are we talking about a Ryder type of report? Yet, the guy has made a career of being who he is. This supposed most unuseful 30-goal scorer to have ever played the game as always been helpful for scoring. But destroying people with checks isn't his game. And you need everything to make a team. I mean, from one of the greatest talent in the world in Ovechkin, to any other plugger in the league....consistency is surely one of the toughest thing to have as a trait. I'd applaud it to the ones who have then condemn it to the ones who don't.

The problem with our team is that we had too many of those same types of players. So of course, if you bring an inconsistent player in a sea of inconsistent players....well it is a problem. But Ryder was the same player when he played in Boston and in a world of toughness, they didn't care about his play....needed his goals and points and got it. Of course eveyrbody here would love the perfect 20 guys....not sure we can do that though. Not sure even the team that win the Cup has that.

Personnally, if I have to choose, I'd take the guy with the talent and you give me the challenge to work with him with his work ethic than to make the work ethic champion of the world and make him into a top 6 hockey player. I'd value more pure natural talent and hockey sense than determination based on the fact that I believe you can work more with the latter than the first 2. But I'd obviously take all 3 if I can. Probably the reason why a guy like Mantha might not go top 10. But he's not falling in the 2nd round. And if he does....I'd love to have that talk in 3 to 4 years and see how teams were wrong about him....or how wrong I was for that matter.

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05-05-2013, 12:51 PM
  #70
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My choices remain about the same for the Draft, unless Bergy decides to make this the last rebuild draft. If Bergy trades for a couple of high (20th-30th) or (50th-60th) !st round or 2nd round picks before the draft. As a strong draft strategy the Habs need to get bigger,stronger,nastier forwards and defencemen that can skate and pass, with a passion for the game. Five of the best are; Morin, Diaby, Hayden, McCarron and Hill then pick a couple of puck magicians with any other picks. The size of the other players drafted after these guys won't matter much for the next ten seasons, but at least every game that matters we as fans,aren't sitting waiting for the axe to fall on our players. While we sit unable to change the situation Go Big Habs Go!

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05-05-2013, 02:01 PM
  #71
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Haha good to kknow I asked a good question.

You seem higher on Poirier than most and not a McCarron fan. I would love to know why.

I would have had them:
1. Compher
2. McCarron
3. Poirier
4. Dauphin
5. Carrier

IMO Compher is quite a bit ahead and if McCarron pans out, will be a great powerforward. Then its tight between the Q guys. What do you think?
When I watched the Under 18 final, the guys that caught my eye were Dauphin and Gauthier and for the American side, it was the defenceman...Santini. For me McCarron is a big, slow moving player with very average offensive side, while Gauthier has offensive potential and good skating ability. Dauphin has a feel for the game that you can't teach...a nose for the net and alot of grit. He can easily be a second line player in the NHL. As well, we mustn't forget Dauphin was also the 1st star in the Orr-Cherry match-up in January. Regarding Poirier...what little I seen of him...I liked his speed and determination.

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05-05-2013, 02:14 PM
  #72
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When I watched the Under 18 final, the guys that caught my eye were Dauphin and Gauthier and for the American side, it was the defenceman...Santini. For me McCarron is a big, slow moving player with very average offensive side, while Gauthier has offensive potential and good skating ability. Dauphin has a feel for the game that you can't teach...a nose for the net and alot of grit. He can easily be a second line player in the NHL. As well, we mustn't forget Dauphin was also the 1st star in the Orr-Cherry match-up in January. Regarding Poirier...what little I seen of him...I liked his speed and determination.
Gauthier if he is still on board would be the perfect pick for Montreal. In 2nd round would like some of these guys Hartman, Bailey, Santini, Morin, Mueller. Hartman especially.

If Tolchinsky drops into 3rd round grab him with one of Habs picks. He is small but fast and skilled.

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05-05-2013, 03:15 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
When I watched the Under 18 final, the guys that caught my eye were Dauphin and Gauthier and for the American side, it was the defenceman...Santini. For me McCarron is a big, slow moving player with very average offensive side, while Gauthier has offensive potential and good skating ability. Dauphin has a feel for the game that you can't teach...a nose for the net and alot of grit. He can easily be a second line player in the NHL. As well, we mustn't forget Dauphin was also the 1st star in the Orr-Cherry match-up in January. Regarding Poirier...what little I seen of him...I liked his speed and determination.
I'm going to disagree with you on McCarron. I was very impressed with his agility. I will agree that he's a little sluggish, but I think that it can be improved fairly easily.

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Gauthier if he is still on board would be the perfect pick for Montreal. In 2nd round would like some of these guys Hartman, Bailey, Santini, Morin, Mueller. Hartman especially.

If Tolchinsky drops into 3rd round grab him with one of Habs picks. He is small but fast and skilled.
If the Habs, or anyone for that matter, took Tolchinsky in the third round, I'd be shocked. Around the OHL, there's been talk questioning his overall effectiveness. At one point in the season, I heard talk about him not even getting drafted. Now I doubt that will happen, but he's more of fifth rounder or later at this point. However, he is one of the most fun players to watch in the draft and I can see a team falling in love with his blazing fast speed and hands that match.

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05-05-2013, 03:32 PM
  #74
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When I watched the Under 18 final, the guys that caught my eye were Dauphin and Gauthier and for the American side, it was the defenceman...Santini. For me McCarron is a big, slow moving player with very average offensive side, while Gauthier has offensive potential and good skating ability. Dauphin has a feel for the game that you can't teach...a nose for the net and alot of grit. He can easily be a second line player in the NHL. As well, we mustn't forget Dauphin was also the 1st star in the Orr-Cherry match-up in January. Regarding Poirier...what little I seen of him...I liked his speed and determination.
If Gauthier is still available by the time Montreal picks then its an easy pick. But I quetion his upside. Will he be more than a defensive minded 3rd liner? Im not sure. McCarron is a boom or bust. Can be the next Lucic or career AHLer.

Dauphin or Poirier IMO will go around 40-50. We would have to grab them earlier than expected or hope they drop to our 3rd 2nd round pick.

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05-05-2013, 03:35 PM
  #75
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My choices remain about the same for the Draft, unless Bergy decides to make this the last rebuild draft. If Bergy trades for a couple of high (20th-30th) or (50th-60th) !st round or 2nd round picks before the draft. As a strong draft strategy the Habs need to get bigger,stronger,nastier forwards and defencemen that can skate and pass, with a passion for the game. Five of the best are; Morin, Diaby, Hayden, McCarron and Hill then pick a couple of puck magicians with any other picks. The size of the other players drafted after these guys won't matter much for the next ten seasons, but at least every game that matters we as fans,aren't sitting waiting for the axe to fall on our players. While we sit unable to change the situation Go Big Habs Go!
Morin would be good in the 1st if he is there. I like Hayden and McCarron but taking Hayden with our early 2nds is a bit of a stretch. If we draft Morin, Diaby is not needed. We should try to take a pure offensive guy. Maybe Bjokstand. I never like Hill.

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