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Preseason GDT:19/09/06: Bruins @ Canadiens, 7:30 PM, CJAD, CKAC

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Old
09-20-2006, 12:34 PM
  #676
znk
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You see....for the past year I've been disapointed witht he over reaction by the media with Lats. I'm not on his bandwagon what so ever. I was glad he was cut last year.

All that being said I think it's wrong to rashly discard the potential "fight" between Perez and other prospects inlcuding Lats. It's not a case of overrating Lats as much as a case of not overrating Perez. I'm a patient guy when it comes to player development. But there comes one point where you have to take a decision. There comes a point where giving extra chances to a prospect means you are is holding back other prospects. Right now perez is letting a chance slip though his hands.

Some questions we have to ask our selfs.....
Does the presence or absence of prospect A on this team make any significant difference in the team's performance?
Is prospect A better then prospect B?
Who out of prospect A or B has better upside?
Who out of prospect A or B brings what the team is lacking?
What can you get for prospect A or B?
Would prospect B develop faster in the NHL or in the AHL or Juniors.
There are tons of more questions to ask....It's a complicated matter and the answers will varry from person to person.

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09-20-2006, 12:41 PM
  #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
You see....for the past year I've been disapointed witht he over reaction by the media with Lats. I'm not on his bandwagon what so ever. I was glad he was cut last year.

All that being said I think it's wrong to rashly discard the potential "fight" between Perez and other prospects inlcuding Lats. It's not a case of overrating Lats as much as a case of not overrating Perez. I'm a patient guy when it comes to player development. But there comes one point where you have to take a decision. There comes a point where giving extra chances to a prospect means you are is holding back other prospects. Right now perez is letting a chance slip though his hands.

Some questions we have to ask our selfs.....
Does the presence or absence of prospect A on this team make any significant difference in the team's performance?
Is prospect A better then prospect B?
Who out of prospect A or B has better upside?
Who out of prospect A or B brings what the team is lacking?
What can you get for prospect A or B?
Would prospect B develop faster in the NHL or in the AHL or Juniors.
There are tons of more questions to ask....It's a complicated matter and the answers will varry from person to person.
Very true. (And essentially captures my feelings on the subject too). But the more urgent question I have is:
What is the spherical-looking object on the island (above the beer)? Koivu's eyeball?????

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09-20-2006, 12:55 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Theran189 View Post
Having read Jan Wong's article about Dawnson's shooting yesterday, it is not that kind of song that could offend me more... In fact nothing could as Wong's article was the stupidest thing I've read in years... But I'll still add that these kind of things won't help the problem you see in french canadians wanting more french habs on the team... By always coming up front with it, I think you are just illustrating the misunderstanding between english and french speakers in Canada... I think that comments in the «if they are unhappy screw them» category should not be allowed as it would be their rights not to find it funny... There are more french speaking people on this board than the no french allowed rule would make you think... As we are all habs fans, I think we should concentrate on that appreciation for the greatest hockey team in history as a way for getting back along instead of trying some socio-politico-low-class comments... I'm not referring at the parody which is pretty funny in fact when I'm talking about low class but to some other comments often read here...
I think BG's song parody was kind of self directed at all of us, Hab fans in general. You have to be able to laugh at yourself and the things around you. I've always maintained that I'd rather a stronger local presence on the team, if it could be done with some intelligence.

I think I'm aware of the linguistic makeup of this board, well aware. People have the right to be offended at anything they want, or feel however they want. I thought the song parody was great, as you do, I was thinking that if anyone 'got their back up' over this, maybe they take these things too seriously. Maybe it was unnecessary, but geez, if I only post well thought out rational thoughts, my post count would dwindle.

Theran, I read a lot of stuff here that I consider low class, and every now and then I use the 'report bad post' option, because I like to avoid letting my temper get the better of me. I think the mods do as well as they can policing this stuff, they can't be everywhere, some of them are quite aged as well. I know, I shouldn't use expressios like 'screw 'em ', but I did. it was aimed at anyone who can't take a well meaning joke.

Anyways, you have the right to your opinion. I just wanted you to realize that I'm not ignorant to the feelings of fans of the CH and I share most of them.

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Old
09-20-2006, 01:01 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
You see....for the past year I've been disapointed witht he over reaction by the media with Lats. I'm not on his bandwagon what so ever. I was glad he was cut last year.

All that being said I think it's wrong to rashly discard the potential "fight" between Perez and other prospects inlcuding Lats. It's not a case of overrating Lats as much as a case of not overrating Perez. I'm a patient guy when it comes to player development. But there comes one point where you have to take a decision. There comes a point where giving extra chances to a prospect means you are is holding back other prospects. Right now perez is letting a chance slip though his hands.

Some questions we have to ask our selfs.....
Does the presence or absence of prospect A on this team make any significant difference in the team's performance?
Is prospect A better then prospect B?
Who out of prospect A or B has better upside?
Who out of prospect A or B brings what the team is lacking?
What can you get for prospect A or B?
Would prospect B develop faster in the NHL or in the AHL or Juniors.
There are tons of more questions to ask....It's a complicated matter and the answers will varry from person to person.
I think when you evaluate players, fans, and often scouts, tend to add up the checklist qualities and form an opinion. Skating,check,shooting check. Sometimes how a guy puts it all together gets forgotten. I don't know how I see Perezhogin. I don't know if he puts his game together well enough. I can picture what Lats can do, if that makes sense. Some of the others, I'm not sure how I picture what they'll do. I feel Lats can bring a lacking quality. The way the team is regarded changes if he makes it as a productive player. That being said, I don't know if he's at that level yet.

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Old
09-20-2006, 01:09 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by BladesofSteel View Post
Say what?
Lapierre, Murray, and Downey are 3 guys who could bring at least what Ferland would, but all are better in some way. It's not that Lapierre is a spare part for now and the future, it's just that he can fill that role in the meantime at least as well as Ferland, probably better.

And O'Byrne played the left side.

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09-20-2006, 01:34 PM
  #681
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Does the presence or absence of prospect A on this team make any significant difference in the team's performance?

Prospect A on a 3rd trio would add an offensive upside and a great physical element. I already think Plekanec has a lot of untapped offensive potential and I like Johnson's profile. Putting the three together would give something montreal has not seen for a long time.

Is prospect A better then prospect B?

From what we've seen so far, prospect A is better than prospect B despite being younger.

Who out of prospect A or B has better upside?

They are two different players... Prospect A could become something between Jason Ward and Cam Neely (big gap left for nuance...). Prospect B could become something between Bulis and Afinogenov. Who's got the better upside? 2 different players. However, I think we might need a Ward/Neely more than a Bulis/Afinogenov. We already have a ton of Bulis/Afinogenov.

Who out of prospect A or B brings what the team is lacking?

Prospect A without a doubt.

What can you get for prospect A or B?

Virtually nothing for prospect B. Prospect B has been mainly stuck on a 3 line for his first year and he's not making any waves in camp. Other options are more sexy.

You don't want to trade prospect A.

Would prospect A develop faster in the NHL or in the AHL or Juniors.

NHL.

That's just my take. However, I'm still torn up on the issue. I have the tendency to think prospect B has been dealt a bad hand last year and I would use prospect A's right to return to the Juniors to keep his 27th year.

However, prospect A has clearly been one of the good players of camp. If we don't put a prospect who looks like he's NHL ready in the lineup after making such a fuss about "keeping the best", only for contractual reasons and age issues, how serious does the whole "training camp" process is going to look like?

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Old
09-20-2006, 01:38 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Since nobody mentions Chipchura, can we say that he didn't have that great a game today. Same for Milroy, Ferland and Gleed??? As far as D'Agostini, the guy is still young but didn't hear his name that often....

And Perez well.....
Chipichura was horrible, was on his arse most of the night à la Mike Ribeiro of the first season. Didn't win battles along the boards. IMO O'byrne looked lost, didn't use his size, got caught off position all the time and didn't even try to see what was going on in front before he cleared the puck.. Both were big disapointments to me.

Ferland didn't really seek to play a hockey, he tried to display physical game.. in combination with Chipchura... and Perezhogin who couldn't find a line mate and messed up every single chance when he was on the puck; the line was pityfull. The only positive I have to say about Zhogy is that he still can digg pucks in the corners.. at first I was impressed by his size, he looks big, but he seems to be too heavy for his speedy style... looked empty after a long shift.

Gleed was ok at best... actually, the defense was quite bad exept for Markov who's just a so great in everything. He even got the best chance we had in the first .. on PK Saku passed the puck and he just blasted one from 10 feet inside the offensive zone. I love the chemistry between him and Saku.

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Old
09-20-2006, 01:54 PM
  #683
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Capt.C., the one thing Lats has going for him is that he can be useful on any line. He can develop as an energy line banger, while it's no way to use Perezhogin.

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Old
09-20-2006, 01:59 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Very true. (And essentially captures my feelings on the subject too). But the more urgent question I have is:
What is the spherical-looking object on the island (above the beer)? Koivu's eyeball?????
I believe it is Wilson from Castaway

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Old
09-20-2006, 02:00 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Very true. (And essentially captures my feelings on the subject too). But the more urgent question I have is:
What is the spherical-looking object on the island (above the beer)? Koivu's eyeball?????
looks like Wilson

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Old
09-20-2006, 02:06 PM
  #686
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It's still too early in camp for me to make any legit stab at comparing A and B, actually. I saw A in the Rookie Tourney and figured he was ticketed for juniors. I saw B last year and felt like he had the talent to be doing more than his numbers indicated in the NHL. I don't think the words leaking out of a few practises and one exhibtion game are anywhere near enough to change my opinion. Yet. The process will sort itself out over the next two weeks.

Actually, we do have room for both A and B on the team, fwiw. And since B can't really be moved anywhere else, unless you want a premature Hossa-like liquidation, then even pitting A against B to begin with is a bit flawed. I'd pit A against C. B needs to pull up his socks and nothing comes for free, but I'd be stunned if he was turfed purely on the strength of A's play.

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Old
09-20-2006, 02:08 PM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
I believe it is Wilson from Castaway
Of course! Now that you mention it, it's unmistakeable. Thanks!

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Old
09-20-2006, 02:11 PM
  #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
It's still too early in camp for me to make any legit stab at comparing A and B, actually. I saw A in the Rookie Tourney and figured he was ticketed for juniors. I saw B last year and felt like he had the talent to be doing more than his numbers indicated in the NHL. I don't think the words leaking out of a few practises and one exhibtion game are anywhere near enough to change my opinion. Yet. The process will sort itself out over the next two weeks.

Actually, we do have room for both A and B on the team, fwiw. And since B can't really be moved anywhere else, unless you want a premature Hossa-like liquidation, then even pitting A against B to begin with is a bit flawed. I'd pit A against C. B needs to pull up his socks and nothing comes for free, but I'd be stunned if he was turfed purely on the strength of A's play.
Maybe we can wait until we see prospect D, E and F tonight.

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Old
09-20-2006, 02:21 PM
  #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick View Post
Chipichura was horrible, was on his arse most of the night à la Mike Ribeiro of the first season. Didn't win battles along the boards. IMO O'byrne looked lost, didn't use his size, got caught off position all the time and didn't even try to see what was going on in front before he cleared the puck.. Both were big disapointments to me.

Ferland didn't really seek to play a hockey, he tried to display physical game.. in combination with Chipchura... and Perezhogin who couldn't find a line mate and messed up every single chance when he was on the puck; the line was pityfull. The only positive I have to say about Zhogy is that he still can digg pucks in the corners.. at first I was impressed by his size, he looks big, but he seems to be too heavy for his speedy style... looked empty after a long shift.

Gleed was ok at best... actually, the defense was quite bad exept for Markov who's just a so great in everything. He even got the best chance we had in the first .. on PK Saku passed the puck and he just blasted one from 10 feet inside the offensive zone. I love the chemistry between him and Saku.
A few people have said Chipchura was terrible/no good, but I don't agree. It's true that he got knocked down 3 or 4 times, but he battled hard in the corners and held his own. It wasn't a shining performance, but it wasn't horrible. That line couldn't even get a cycle going. Perezhogin made a lot of low percentage plays with the puck off the rush/transition, perhaps out of frustration.

I watched Chipchura pretty closely, and I thought he played his game pretty well. His positioning, especially in the defensive zone, was great. He covered for a rushing defenceman to prevent an odd-man rush the other way, won face-offs, and played tight man coverage in front of the net. The lasting impression of Chipchura is that even when he's not great, he's still fundamentally solid enough in a defensive situation to take a regular shift, even at an NHL level. Still, he could use some seasoning in the AHL to round out the skills he'll need to be more than merely a cheap replacement for Bonk on the 4th line.

But I'm with you on your other observations.

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09-20-2006, 02:35 PM
  #690
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Here are my thoughts on Tuesday's Game :

OVERALL : it was like last years pre-season with the HABS trying to learn the new rules on penalties. So many bad penalties !!!


FORWARDS :

Koivu played great. BIG RELIEF.

Higgins was a little quiet offensively but solid defensively, good on the boards.

Ryder was skating with tons of speed and delivered a few solid bodychecks. Scoreed a goal.

Latendresse started slow but played very well from the 2nd period onwards. He comes out of nowhere to be in a scoring position. Great combative spirit fighting for the puck, nice bodychecks. Great play to get the breakaway. Didn't seem to know what he was doing on the penalty shot : looked very nervous. GREAT CHEMISTRY WITH BONK ! Maybe he can start the season playing with Bonk & Begin ?

Perezhogin : very disapointing. Admittedly he was not playing with complimentary linemates but he lost a lot of 1on1 puck battles, was weak on the boards. Put him on a line with his more offensive linemates and he should be better.

Bonk & Begin played great EXCEPT ON THE PK ! We gave up 4 PP goals. Not sure how many they were on the ice for but I have to assume some of them ! Begin hit Chara a couple times and challenged him in a scrum !!!

Ferland : was impressed with his forechecking and defensive game. Very physical in fighting for the puck.

Chipchura, Maxwell, D'agostini etc.. : didn't see much from them. Especially D'agostini : he was invisible.


DEFENSE :

Markov : makes it look so easy ! Great passing, winning puck battles etc.. He's like Koivu when battling for the puck : he seems to initiate contact at unexpected moments and use the opponents momentum against them.

Rivet : seemed solid but we lost the game with his double-minor in the 1st.

Komisarek : expect him to play even better this year. Looks very confident. Leaped to his teamates defense when Chara was starting a scrum !

O-Byrne : made a few mistakes but overall I was impressed with how he played. Great at clearing the front of the net : especially on the PK in the 3rd period. Expected more bodychecks from him though.

Gleed : like O'byrne he made a few mistakes but still a solid rookie performance.


GOALIES :

Huet : 4 PP goals. Not a great game but with 3 prospects on D killing that many penalties, entirely forgivable.

Price : very solide and big in the net. Looked nervous on first few shots : two of the first 3 shots hit the post ! However the other shot was an amazing save on Glen Murray. Faced 19 shots in the 3rd !!! He is good at steering the rebounds to the corners but not as good as Boston's Tim Thomas who was constantly deflecting shots out of play with his stick.


BOSTON :

Kessel was impressive : 3 assists.

Sturm was also great. I've been a fan of his for years : leading a mediocre German team into becoming a competitor in international play. So much heart !

Chara : the beast played as you would expect. What a MONSTER !

Tim Thomas was rock solid. The ref may want to consider giving him delay of game penalties after deflecting so many pucks out of play with his stick.

Overall : Boston did a great job of burying their chances.
They excel at winning meaningless games.

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Old
09-20-2006, 03:38 PM
  #691
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Some impressions after pre-season Game 1

First impressions based on preseason game 1: report by player in order of impact:


1) Saku Koivu looked terrific. He was skating hard, completed a bunch of very difficult plays and he looked to be in good condition. He created numerous chances.


2) Guillaume Latendresse was terrific. Scored a goal, drew a penalty shot and finished every check. I reserve my judgment about the possibility of him making the team for a few more games.

3) Carey Price. Lot’s of people have their doubts, apparently, but you can already tell that he is something special. He is almost always square to the shooter like Huet, his rebound control is terrific and he is quicker than Huet. One of the most noticeable qualities is his puckhandling and vision. He made some really clever plays with the puck.

4) Chris Higgins played a solid game all around. The good news is he looks like he could score 20-25 goals again. We will need him to do that for us again.

5) Ryder played a surprisingly gritty game. Of course he scored, too.

6) John Gleed: I am dubbing him “the invisible defenseman”. He is hard to notice because he does many of the little things right and he’s rapidly growing in my mind as a mature, strong/physical and smart defender. He impressed me far more than O’Byrne both in the rookie tournament and in yesterday’s game as well. Of course I expect him to be cut, thus he is also in my wait and see folder, but keep your eye on him.

7) Maxwell played a good game as well. The guy does display quite a bit of creativity. I will take a wait and see on him because he is so young. (see below).



Disappointments:

Alexander Perezhogin. The guy looked soft and lazy out there and we simply don’t need this type of player floating around. He better pick it up or he will be back in Hamilton.


Wait and see:

Ryan O’Byrne needs to get faster, smarter and stronger on the clearing attempts. He made far too many weak tries along the boards almost all of which were intercepted. He’ll need to spend some time adjusting to faster, stronger players. Obviously he’s going to go to Hamilton anyway.

Matt D’Agostini is a very talented guy but he looked a little behind. I expect he will obviously be cut this year as most of the guiys will but look for it to happen sooner rather than later. He’s not ready yet.

Ben Maxwell was one of my favourite players at the rookie tournament, which you will know if you read my report from last week. H played well That said, he’s only 18 and no matter what they say about him on CJAD, he’s not ready. He’s lacking upper body strength the mental quickness of an NHL player. But he’s another guy to keep your eye on.



Not going anywhere:
Milroy
Ferland



FYI: PJ Stock and a bunch of the media guys showed up at Hurley’s post game. They were joined by PJ Axelsson, who came up behind Stock and jokingly grabbed his ears. At the same time they were joined by Glen Murray and Marc Savard. On the way out, we teased stock about hanging around with his old pals and he said, “ahhh…those guys are a$$holes”. Funny guy.


Last edited by Catch-22: 09-20-2006 at 03:43 PM.
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09-20-2006, 03:50 PM
  #692
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Perezhogin won't make it back to Hamilton...correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but the Habs are out of option with him...it's either NHL or risk losing him on waivers if they send him down

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09-20-2006, 04:20 PM
  #693
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Perezhogin won't make it back to Hamilton...correct me if i'm wrong anyone, but the Habs are out of option with him...it's either NHL or risk losing him on waivers if they send him down
Or losing him, period...

We can always expect a trade...but it would be a better return than the Hossa trade from last year. I wouldn't be shocked if it happen...

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