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Old
05-05-2013, 02:21 PM
  #26
Sevanston
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If these are the only options, I'd choose Stalberg over Bickell 10 times out of 10.

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05-05-2013, 02:32 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Dah ****?

No, seriously.. Dah ****?

Seabrook has a "poor" year, and now all of a sudden he's been bad for most of the past 3 years? Are you kidding me? It was just last year that people on this board were saying Seabrook, not Keith, was the Hawks best Dman. I don't even..
For a period last year he was, but he hasn't been able to string together the consistency Keith has these last 25 or so games.

And yes, it has been the better part of 3+ seasons. Good first half of the Cup run, TERRRIBLE post concussion and Olympics, bad follow up season, and really tailed off at the end of last year. This year he's been terrible. You're really okay with a player being mediocre for 70% of a 3-4 year period on a 5.8 mil/year contract? Okay then.

Seabs is not NEARLY as good as you and many others make him out to be. He's lazy. He get's consistently beat at the blue line (on a lesser team it would be even worse). He's absolutely clueless around his own net. He has a heavy, but largely inaccurate shot and is a phenomenal stretch passer. That's hardly enough to be worth 5.8 million, especially on a team that will have to make several tough decisions.

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05-05-2013, 02:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
As opposed to, what on earth has Pirri done? One won the AHL scoring title, then looked bad in their NHL game. The other won the Hobey Baker, and looked good in their NHL games.

LeBlanc's older, stronger, better defensively. If Pirri wins the spot, he wins the spot, but I think LeBlanc will, so I put him there.
I love how you cite sample size as a poor argumentative until your backed in a corner. LMAO.

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05-05-2013, 02:35 PM
  #29
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Honestly I don't think either one would be as effective without the other. My concern is that we only keep one, give him good money and then his production goes down because he doesn't have the other guy on his line anymore.

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05-05-2013, 03:10 PM
  #30
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Stalberg with his speed and I don't trust guys that really step it up in a contract year

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05-05-2013, 04:24 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
I agree with much of what you said above and I'd also be looking hard to shop Seabrook before his value deteriorates. For most of the last 3+ seasons he has not played near the level of a 5.8 million dollar a year defensmen. I'm not as up to date on pending UFAs and spend even less time trying to find viable trade partners but I'd at least see what's out there. I'd also throw Sharp out there as well, but more from a feeler perspective. If someone makes a stupendous offer I'd move on it, if not hold on to him. But for me Bolland, Seabrook, and Carcillo should be moved (or bought out/demoted in Carcillo's case) if at all possible.

As to the OP's question I'd take Stalberg and it's not even close. Speed is unparalleled, but he's made profound leaps in defensive aptitude, puck carrying skills, and cycling abilities that really make him an invaluable player. He's still not very good at corralling great passes and turning them into goals, but his shot is also much better than it was when he got here. Not only do I think Stalberg's a better player now, but I also think he can continue to improve moreso than Bickell. He'll be the rare case of a player that enters his prime in his late 20s, and due to his gamebreaking speed, will prolong his prime into his 30s. Right now he's easily a 2nd line talent that can play on all three lines, depending on the personnel (if a team needs a sniper on the top line Vik does not fit the bill).
While I highly doubt Seabrook is made available, would Petry + 7th overall be fair value? Petry is very Jekyll and Hyde, great one game, clueless the next, but it could partially be due to being miscast (and thus overused) as a top pairing guy on our team. All-star calibre skillset, ECHL brain for the game, but he is appealing cap wise next year (1.5). At 7th overall there is a very good chance one of Monohan or Lindholm is available, and I know 2nd line C has been a need for you guys since the cup win. Again, won't hold my breath for Seabrook actually being made available.

As for the two possible UFA's, sounds like the majority are leaning towards Stalberg which is who I like better as well. That said, Bickell is bigger and grittier which fills more of a need for the Oil. 3 mil per sound about right for him?

Thanks for all the input as well. Some fans get a little defensive about other teams trying to pry their players away in UFA, but with the way you guys develop players and the fact you have such a strong core locked up, I suppose you're used to it.

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Old
05-05-2013, 05:01 PM
  #32
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i have 0 interest in petry

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05-05-2013, 05:44 PM
  #33
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I love Stålberg so have to say him, even though he is a bit inconsistent.

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05-05-2013, 06:14 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
While I highly doubt Seabrook is made available, would Petry + 7th overall be fair value? Petry is very Jekyll and Hyde, great one game, clueless the next, but it could partially be due to being miscast (and thus overused) as a top pairing guy on our team. All-star calibre skillset, ECHL brain for the game, but he is appealing cap wise next year (1.5). At 7th overall there is a very good chance one of Monohan or Lindholm is available, and I know 2nd line C has been a need for you guys since the cup win. Again, won't hold my breath for Seabrook actually being made available.

As for the two possible UFA's, sounds like the majority are leaning towards Stalberg which is who I like better as well. That said, Bickell is bigger and grittier which fills more of a need for the Oil. 3 mil per sound about right for him?

Thanks for all the input as well. Some fans get a little defensive about other teams trying to pry their players away in UFA, but with the way you guys develop players and the fact you have such a strong core locked up, I suppose you're used to it.
Not even close.

Hall or RNH would have to come back to Chicago, with a preference for RNH if I'm Chicago.

In other words, Chicago's not moving him. Top-pairing Dmen, in their primes, aren't moved very often.

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05-05-2013, 07:20 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post

Barring some unforeseen development, resign Stalberg and put him on the 2nd line (where he now belongs). Move Sharp to center, and have Kane on the right wing.
Totally agree on bumping Vik up (knowing full well it's not going to happen). If Bolland were healthy, this would have been my top 9 going into the playoffs:

20/19/81
25/10/88
29/36/65

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05-05-2013, 07:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Brouwer was a RFA...
Thanks for that- I've totally been remembering his status wrong, I've been thinking Brouwer was UFA.

Makes sense why Stalberg or Bickell wouldn't fetch as much then.

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05-05-2013, 08:04 PM
  #37
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Stalberg is better, but that's why he'll likely fetch more as a UFA.

I'm hoping we can get Bickell signed to a 4 year, $10M deal.

Morin will likely replace Stalberg.

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05-05-2013, 08:15 PM
  #38
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The 7th plus Petry for Seabs?


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Old
05-06-2013, 08:07 AM
  #39
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Wouldn't even want RNH for Seabs

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05-06-2013, 09:58 AM
  #40
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I like Stalberg over Bickell. I think Bickell is easier to replace. It's tough to say who I would like better because it would depend on the size of the contract.

I believe it was mentioned above, it's too dangerous to write big contracts on 3rd and 4th line players. They are essentially role players and are among the easiest to find a cost-effective replacement for.

Both are likely to see a ridiculous offer from somewhere if they hit the market. I hope Stalberg's demands are more reasonable and they keep him. I think Bickell has been more valuable this year, but I'm still skeptical that he could maintain a similar level of play year over year compared to Stalberg.

I think Bowman has to keep one of them, it will be interesting to see what happens.

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05-06-2013, 10:15 AM
  #41
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Let's see how they both perform in the post-season.

I think the $ issue will be the deciding factor.

Also, the Hawks have a few younger guys approaching their "prospect" expiration date, and I wouldn't be shocked to see the Hawks go with youth in that 3rd line role next year.

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05-06-2013, 10:15 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
While I highly doubt Seabrook is made available, would Petry + 7th overall be fair value? Petry is very Jekyll and Hyde, great one game, clueless the next, but it could partially be due to being miscast (and thus overused) as a top pairing guy on our team. All-star calibre skillset, ECHL brain for the game, but he is appealing cap wise next year (1.5). At 7th overall there is a very good chance one of Monohan or Lindholm is available, and I know 2nd line C has been a need for you guys since the cup win. Again, won't hold my breath for Seabrook actually being made available.

As for the two possible UFA's, sounds like the majority are leaning towards Stalberg which is who I like better as well. That said, Bickell is bigger and grittier which fills more of a need for the Oil. 3 mil per sound about right for him?

Thanks for all the input as well. Some fans get a little defensive about other teams trying to pry their players away in UFA, but with the way you guys develop players and the fact you have such a strong core locked up, I suppose you're used to it.
No...it would take closer to RNH + your 7th overall + 2nd rounder

I think I'd want the same haul for Seabrook that Boston has ended up with for Kessel (and by "ended up with" I mean we know what the 2 firsts that Toronto traded ended up as ...i.e a 2nd and 9th overall).

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05-06-2013, 11:57 AM
  #43
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Wait to unlikely that Stalberg will be cost effective. Bickell still could be and has that element needed to be kept. Not many people in the pipeline with that skillset who haven't been underachieving.

I'd expect both gone and Morin-Hayes or others to be more fills in up next season.

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Old
05-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #44
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Both are gone and I'm ok with that. We have a lot of younger guys waiting to crack the line up and are a lot cheaper. Neither of these guys are going to be worth what their next contracts will be.

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05-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
I love how you cite sample size as a poor argumentative until your backed in a corner. LMAO.
You're right, so lets expand that. Pirri's not looked good in any of his 7 games in the NHL, and LeBlanc looked good in all but 1 period, coming straight out of college.

I never said it wasn't a small sample size, but when you're the leading scorer in the AHL and have been playing Pro for the past 3 years, you should stand out more than a kid who's played 1 NHL game and was coming straight out of college.

Pirri showed next to nothing in his game. He was bad. He looked lazy and he wasn't making plays. On top of that, he was playing with Smith and Morin, guys he had played with in Rockford, while LeBlanc was playing with Carcillo and J.Hayes, and LeBlanc still looked better.

Like I said, if Pirri wins the spot he wins the spot, but LeBlanc looked better, is older, stronger and better defensively. I'm putting money on him making the team over Pirri at this point.

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Old
05-06-2013, 01:34 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
For a period last year he was, but he hasn't been able to string together the consistency Keith has these last 25 or so games.

And yes, it has been the better part of 3+ seasons. Good first half of the Cup run, TERRRIBLE post concussion and Olympics, bad follow up season, and really tailed off at the end of last year. This year he's been terrible. You're really okay with a player being mediocre for 70% of a 3-4 year period on a 5.8 mil/year contract? Okay then.

Seabs is not NEARLY as good as you and many others make him out to be. He's lazy. He get's consistently beat at the blue line (on a lesser team it would be even worse). He's absolutely clueless around his own net. He has a heavy, but largely inaccurate shot and is a phenomenal stretch passer. That's hardly enough to be worth 5.8 million, especially on a team that will have to make several tough decisions.
I'll break this down by paragraph:

What period are you talking about? Lets get specific. You said you were in the boat of posters that thought Seabrook was the true #1 Dman on the team last year, now he's been bad for the past 3 years? Make up your mind.

Lawl.

Apparently Keith isn't either. Either everyone that watches the Hawks is blind, or you are. I really don't know why, but I think I'm going with the latter.

Thanks for the lolz, Zac.

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05-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #47
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Isn't it worth it to overpay one of the two of them for the sake of continuity? I hate overpaying for depth but I don't want too much turnover on the bottom pair and bottom 6. A number of players are already going to be gone and many others are likely candidates to be moved or waived. I'm not a fan of a big roster turnover, too many moving parts so I don't mind spending (maybe wasting) an extra million or so on a contract to keep the roster less volatile.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:44 PM
  #48
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Sign both

Sign both for 2-3 years to not loose them for nothing, then trade 1 or both after 1-2 years depending on their value / progress...

Lineup:
Saad - Toews - Hossa
Sharp - Shaw - Kane
Bickell - Kruger - Stalberg
Morin - Pirri / LeBlanc - Smith
Carcillo
Bollig

Keith - Hjalmarsson
Seabrook - Leddy
Clendening - Oduya
Brookbank
Stanton

Crawford
Hutton / Karlsson

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Old
05-06-2013, 03:07 PM
  #49
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They are both quality players I would love to keep. They are pretty close in terms in value so whoever takes less, which is going to be Bickell. Stalberg is going to get paid 4M+ per IMO, crazy, I know, but I feel like that is going to happen because of his speed.

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Old
05-06-2013, 03:33 PM
  #50
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Stalberg's going to get paid 4M per year because teams get desperate in the off-season and overpay. It has less to do with his speed, and more to do with the market. He's a big, perceived 20-goal scoring winger. Those players get overpaid on the open market.

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