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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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05-05-2013, 06:35 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I love how many are in complete denial blaming this solely on the lack of skill on the roster.

I just listened to Torts post practise presser. He HIMSELF said that our neutral zone play had been GOOD. Nothing wrong with our transition game.

And of course he says it. It's our game plan to just bang the puck out of our own end.
No denial here. Torts and the roster are both major problems. But no coach would propel the bums on this roster to contenders.

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05-05-2013, 06:40 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
You guys feel confident with these three operating the team?

I don't know how anyone can complain about Dolan. He spends money(a lot of it) and stays out of the way.

Sather is hit/miss. I don't think he is a bad GM. He makes the bad signing here and there. But he is a wizard with trades. His biggest issue is that he has a mediocre choice of coaches(although I don't think Renney was necessarily a poor coach). He is also(which in some ways I respect)very loyal to the guy behind the bench. However in this situation its beginning to hurt the organization. I'm take it or leave it with him.

Torts has run his course. He isn't effective anymore and needs to be replaced.

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05-05-2013, 06:41 PM
  #128
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Lol this team can work as hard as they want it's not going to matter if they don't have a good system in place.

Have you ever played hockey?
have you?

I actually have for a long time and at high levels hahah.. but work ethic is everything, how can you say its not a factor? Simply wanting it more then an opponent and having more determination is everything.. you didn't watch the islanders game today? they simply raised there game, and pitt underestimated them and we're lucky to get the win..

thats why i think hockey is the greatest game, bc of that sole reason... hockey is a simple game systems are usually how you apply pressure (2-1-2 or 1-2-2) and how you create that pressure to create turnovers into scoring chances.. as well as capitalizing on mistakes etc...we're more of a transitional game team, nothing wrong with it.. d applys pressure in the N zone, takes time and space, creates turnovers and goes the other direction..

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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Sigh...

The reason why the Rangers look a little non committal to the forecheck is that Torts was alternating between 1-2-2 forecheck and 2-1-2 high forecheck all game. Basically, Torts doesn't want his players getting caught below the hashmarks. So he has to have at least one player high to cut down any quick counter attacks.

The problem is that the Rangers will get bodies in the offensive zone but he doesn't want them to commit to the forecheck until one of the forecheckers can start a scrum. Its non-committal and its utterly pointless against the caps who can actually pass a puck out of a zone quickly. Its a good strategy against perhaps a slower transitional team like Boston. Not a good a strategy against quicker teams like Montreal, Pitt, or Washington. Unless, you want your high man to play transitional D all game.

They may as well trap with how ineffective their forechecking schemes are. Also, their poor transition game doesn't help with establishing a forecheck either. It has nothing to do with effort or compete level.

you want a 2-1-2 for loose puck battles, and 1-2-2 when the other team has possession so one guy chases and the other two stay high.. Essentially thats what hockey is, the system is always 2-1-2 or 1-2-2, what other deviations are effective otherwise? hockey is a very simple game.. you want 3 guys below the hash marks applying pressure? or to commit?

Compete level is everything, wanting to win the small battles to win the overall war is everything.. Strong on the forecheck applying one guy on the puck the second for support is what its all about.. DUmp and chase, thats hockey every team does it.. we just dont get there we have poor line changes which kill us and people on the ice way to longer then they should.. with the talent we have on offense, defense and in net theres no excuses this team should be dominate..

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05-05-2013, 06:46 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I don't know how anyone can complain about Dolan. He spends money(a lot of it) and stays out of the way.

Sather is hit/miss. I don't think he is a bad GM. He makes the bad signing here and there. But he is a wizard with trades. His biggest issue is that he has a mediocre choice of coaches(although I don't think Renney was necessarily a poor coach). He is also(which in some ways I respect)very loyal to the guy behind the bench. However in this situation its beginning to hurt the organization. I'm take it or leave it with him.

Torts has run his course. He isn't effective anymore and needs to be replaced.
It's always coaching problem. First it was Low, then Trottier, then Renney and now Torts.

Fans are content with Glen Sather at helm, which is very disheartening. This type of incompetence for these many years should be unacceptable for our deserving fanbase. 13 years at helm with no titles, one deep playoff run and overall a very mediocre franchise. This all done whilst having a very attractable market for free agents to sign in. I have no confidence in this team winning a cup if he is still in charge.

Dolan and Sather are buddies til the end, which means there is not much to look forward to as long as Sather is still healthy enough to manage a NHL franchise.

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05-05-2013, 06:50 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
have you?

I actually have for a long time and at high levels hahah.. but work ethic is everything, how can you say its not a factor? Simply wanting it more then an opponent and having more determination is everything.. you didn't watch the islanders game today? they simply raised there game, and pitt underestimated them and we're lucky to get the win..

thats why i think hockey is the greatest game, bc of that sole reason... hockey is a simple game systems are usually how you apply pressure (2-1-2 or 1-2-2) and how you create that pressure to create turnovers into scoring chances.. as well as capitalizing on mistakes etc...we're more of a transitional game team, nothing wrong with it.. d applys pressure in the N zone, takes time and space, creates turnovers and goes the other direction..




you want a 2-1-2 for loose puck battles, and 1-2-2 when the other team has possession so one guy chases and the other two stay high.. Essentially thats what hockey is, the system is always 2-1-2 or 1-2-2, what other deviations are effective otherwise? hockey is a very simple game.. you want 3 guys below the hash marks applying pressure? or to commit?

Compete level is everything, wanting to win the small battles to win the overall war is everything.. Strong on the forecheck applying one guy on the puck the second for support is what its all about.. DUmp and chase, thats hockey every team does it.. we just dont get there we have poor line changes which kill us and people on the ice way to longer then they should.. with the talent we have on offense, defense and in net theres no excuses this team should be dominate..
I want two guys outnumbering the Dman in the corner and a third man on the far side pressuring the outlet along the weak side(I want a 2-1-2 low or an occasional 3-2). I don't want one guy half committed on the 1-2-2 and hope the opposing Dman panics and throws the puck along the far side wall(Caps D is too mobile and gets too much support from one of their forwards). It doesn't work. The 2-1-2 high is worthless because we don't cover the middle at the blue line. Caps just skate the puck out of the zone.

Those are mediocre forechecks against that team. If Torts doesn't want to commit to a more aggressive forecheck, thats fine too. Rangers should just trap the crap out of the Capitals then. But these "half measured" approaches are not going to cut it. Thats not on the players, thats on the coach. Either the Rangers attack their D, or clog the neutral zone and take away Caps speed(helps our Dmen too who are overworked). One or the other.

But, this is all a moot point because our transition game is so worthless we can't execute a soft dump in. Its stretch pass tip ins and line change for everyone...


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 05-05-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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05-05-2013, 06:59 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
It's always coaching problem. First it was Low, then Trottier, then Renney and now Torts.

Fans are content with Glen Sather at helm, which is very disheartening. This type of incompetence for these many years should be unacceptable for our deserving fanbase. 13 years at helm with no titles, one deep playoff run and overall a very mediocre franchise. This all done whilst having a very attractable market for free agents to sign in. I have no confidence in this team winning a cup if he is still in charge.

Dolan and Sather are buddies til the end, which means there is not much to look forward to as long as Sather is still healthy enough to manage a NHL franchise.
I don't know, I think this organization was a mess when Sather got to the Rangers from Checkettes and Neil Smith. We had barely a farm team. We weren't drafting well, and had a "Country club" atmosphere. It took him half a decade, but he was able(slowly) to get this team to some level respectability. We have a lot of good prospects, and a good developmental system. He has made some mistakes for sure, but he has also done some very good things as well. As I have said, he is hit and miss.

New York is a tough place to build because they aren't willing to fully commit to a "tanking" rebuild. Sather tried to implement a front office similar to the Red Wings and had mixed results.

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05-05-2013, 07:19 PM
  #132
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4 in 86, 1 in 73, 0 in 20 years disgraceful.
Is it a lack of pride? Would Montreal fans stand for this?
I just don't understand. I wish I could snap my fingers and make it change, but I can't
It must be MSG mgt. look at the Knicks 2 since 1946.
Something needs to give

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05-05-2013, 07:21 PM
  #133
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Montreal is 0 for 21. But nice try, again.

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05-05-2013, 07:23 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Montreal is 0 for 21. But nice try, again.
They didn't miss the playoffs all those years in a row
Toronto 0 for 53
Same problems

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Old
05-05-2013, 07:26 PM
  #135
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They didn't miss the playoffs all those years in a row
Toronto 0 for 53
Same problems
The goal is to win the Cup, not make the playoffs.

All 3 teams are in the same boat.

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05-05-2013, 07:34 PM
  #136
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The goal is to win the Cup, not make the playoffs.

All 3 teams are in the same boat.
But then again
No playoffs
No cup

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05-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #137
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But then again
No playoffs
No cup
Playoffs.
Exit.
Same end result.

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05-05-2013, 07:38 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
have you?

I actually have for a long time and at high levels hahah.. but work ethic is everything, how can you say its not a factor? Simply wanting it more then an opponent and having more determination is everything.. you didn't watch the islanders game today? they simply raised there game, and pitt underestimated them and we're lucky to get the win..

thats why i think hockey is the greatest game, bc of that sole reason... hockey is a simple game systems are usually how you apply pressure (2-1-2 or 1-2-2) and how you create that pressure to create turnovers into scoring chances.. as well as capitalizing on mistakes etc...we're more of a transitional game team, nothing wrong with it.. d applys pressure in the N zone, takes time and space, creates turnovers and goes the other direction..




you want a 2-1-2 for loose puck battles, and 1-2-2 when the other team has possession so one guy chases and the other two stay high.. Essentially thats what hockey is, the system is always 2-1-2 or 1-2-2, what other deviations are effective otherwise? hockey is a very simple game.. you want 3 guys below the hash marks applying pressure? or to commit?

Compete level is everything, wanting to win the small battles to win the overall war is everything.. Strong on the forecheck applying one guy on the puck the second for support is what its all about.. DUmp and chase, thats hockey every team does it.. we just dont get there we have poor line changes which kill us and people on the ice way to longer then they should.. with the talent we have on offense, defense and in net theres no excuses this team should be dominate..
Yes, and still am, at a very high level.

Does hard work and determination make a difference? Yes, a huge difference, but if you play hard and not smart it's going to get you no where. Everyone that plays the game today is a smart player to a certain extent fighters aside. It's up to the coach to get the best out of them and play to each players strengths. Tortorella did that last year, but we are a different team this year.

Let's face it, were not going to trade the entire team citing "determination" (nor should we), and the team isn't producing. When they do work hard, it gets them no where because they're either going 1 on 2, 2 on 2, or they're all in the corner with no one in a position to score. Look at the Kunitz OT goal today. Screening infront, Crosby gets the puck, and Kunitz pops out into a soft area and gets the puck with no one around him for a clean one timer right at the hash marks. That's coaching folks. It takes hard work to get there but coaching to KNOW to get there.

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05-05-2013, 07:51 PM
  #139
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Great points LI97 and Blueshirt believer.. its just disheartening bc we have plenty of talent whether coaching or personnel the issue its no excuse! these guys are pros and have been playing this game a looonnnngggg ass time they should have plenty of accountability and the will to do whatever necessary to win.. you guys and all fans here have been to the garden.. being a pro playing in front of the sold out and packed house garden with 18k fans screaming and rooting for you, gives me chills every time im there.. if you cant raise your game in front of that crowed on the reg.. you shouldnt be playing the gamehahaha but LGRs!!! big game tomorrow, hopefully clowes back and we're at full strength!!

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05-05-2013, 08:12 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Water1 View Post
4 in 86, 1 in 73, 0 in 20 years disgraceful.
Is it a lack of pride? Would Montreal fans stand for this?
I just don't understand. I wish I could snap my fingers and make it change, but I can't
It must be MSG mgt. look at the Knicks 2 since 1946.
Something needs to give
You should have seen one of my replies to what you said in one of the other threads. Spot on.

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05-05-2013, 08:14 PM
  #141
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Torts is a good coach don't get me wrong. I jut think hes not the right coach for this team anymore at this team. I think now with his sudden change of philosophy he is the type of a coach a rebuilding team or a team looking to to take a big step or 2 in their franchise. Sorry for getting off track but we would be very lucky to get back to Washington. You know the building where we have 1 win and 9 goals in the last 9 playoff games there. Montreal house of horrors part deux. I said it before I will say it again, this team will win NOTHING under Tortorella. now finally other people are starting to see it.

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05-05-2013, 08:32 PM
  #143
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I don't know how anyone can complain about Dolan. He spends money(a lot of it) and stays out of the way.
While I'm glad he doesn't attempt his best Jerry Jones impersonation, he's a terrible owner because he doesn't seem to give a flying **** about the team and Sather has been in charge for 13 years now. That's a clown move in itself.

Quote:
Sather is hit/miss. I don't think he is a bad GM. He makes the bad signing here and there. But he is a wizard with trades. His biggest issue is that he has a mediocre choice of coaches(although I don't think Renney was necessarily a poor coach). He is also(which in some ways I respect)very loyal to the guy behind the bench. However in this situation its beginning to hurt the organization. I'm take it or leave it with him.
Sather makes terrible signings and I think his trades are overrated. They usually help negate a terrible signing. Gomez for McD, Kotalik for Prust, Dubinsky for Nash etc.

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05-05-2013, 08:38 PM
  #144
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No one seems to be held accountable.
If I did my job this way I wouldnt have it.

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05-05-2013, 08:54 PM
  #145
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While I'm glad he doesn't attempt his best Jerry Jones impersonation, he's a terrible owner because he doesn't seem to give a flying **** about the team and Sather has been in charge for 13 years now. That's a clown move in itself.



Sather makes terrible signings and I think his trades are overrated. They usually help negate a terrible signing. Gomez for McD, Kotalik for Prust, Dubinsky for Nash etc.
this is true. he got rid of one horrid mistake and got McD, but he also wasted a ton of money getting rid of redden and drury.

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05-05-2013, 08:57 PM
  #146
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this is true. he got rid of one horrid mistake and got McD, but he also wasted a ton of money getting rid of redden and drury.
$7.6 million of our cap space is used up on Drury and Redden. Luckily that ends after this season. It will be great to replace that next year after we buyout Richards.

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05-05-2013, 09:00 PM
  #147
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$7.6 million of our cap space is used up on Drury and Redden. Luckily that ends after this season. It will be great to replace that next year after we buyout Richards.
Richards buyout won't count on the cap.

Still though, that's horrible.

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05-05-2013, 09:01 PM
  #148
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Richards buyout won't count on the cap.

Still though, that's horrible.
Would the amnesty not count against the cap for a single season?

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05-05-2013, 09:03 PM
  #149
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Would the amnesty not count against the cap for a single season?
No. I think Redden's did because it was an accelerated buyout and wasn't used in the "buyout window."

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05-05-2013, 09:04 PM
  #150
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Would the amnesty not count against the cap for a single season?
It won't count at all. As stated above me.

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