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Where can Miller go?

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Old
05-05-2013, 04:59 PM
  #101
Jame
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Jame, you offer two trades for comparison to show what you think Miller's trade value is (and you think it's nil, or at least less than a guy like Strome).

Deal #1: Jose Theodore nets David Aebischer. One backup goalie for another.

Deal #2: Roberto Luongo nets Todd Bertuzzi (a 31 year old, 71 point power forward, 2 years removed from a 97 point season), Bryan Allen (a 25 year old, top 4 defenseman averaging over 20 minutes a night), and Alex Auld (their previous starting goaltender).

The fact that you can't tell the difference between these two tenders or the value of the returns they fetched is just driving home that you've internalized your "all goalies are interchangeable and worthless" philosophy so deeply that you can't tell the difference between a deal with value or one without it.
and you've internalize you're love of Ryan Miller and don't recognize that a 33 yr old goaltender, heading into the final year of his deal, who hasn't won a playoff series in 6 years... isn't really that valuable in a marketplace where more than 75% of the franchises already have a solution in net.

Why are the Islanders going to bid a top tier prospect??? Who are they competing with in the trade market for Miller?

I use real world examples to base my opinion on trade value... you use your heart...

You live in a fantasy

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05-05-2013, 05:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
And as long as we're comparing Miller and Luongo, let's not forget that Miller didn't get pulled in the playoffs and lose the starting job.
right... we've only forgotten that Miller has made the playoffs twice in the last 5 years.... and in those series he blew how many 3rd period leads?

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05-05-2013, 05:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
and you've internalize you're love of Ryan Miller and don't recognize that a 33 yr old goaltender, heading into the final year of his deal, who hasn't won a playoff series in 6 years... isn't really that valuable in a marketplace where more than 75% of the franchises already have a solution in net.

Why are the Islanders going to bid a top tier prospect??? Who are they competing with in the trade market for Miller?

I use real world examples to base my opinion on trade value... you use your heart...

You live in a fantasy
I use the actual stats of the players dealt at the time and you look back and say that's "revisionist history."

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05-05-2013, 05:04 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Who are they competing with in the trade market for Miller?
You can start with Chicago, Toronto and Florida.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens. He's probably going to move, unless Darcy continues to be a moron.

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05-05-2013, 05:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I use the actual stats of the players dealt at the time and you look back and say that's "revisionist history."
it is... it's revisionist to look at stats outside of context.... and it's idiotic to believe a singular season's stats are the overwhelming factor in trade value... i mean, if you want it to be that way... then you can start referring to Miller's pedestrian 2012/13 stats and start making those stats the overwhelming trade value... but, who would trade a top prospect for a 915%/2.80GAA goalie? right?

oh... you want to have it both ways... because you didn't put enough thought into your theodore argument before making it? sorry

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05-05-2013, 05:11 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it is... it's revisionist to look at stats outside of context.... and it's idiotic to believe a singular season's stats are the overwhelming factor in trade value... i mean, if you want it to be that way... then you can start referring to Miller's pedestrian 2012/13 stats and start making those stats the overwhelming trade value... but, who would trade a top prospect for a 915%/2.80GAA goalie? right?

oh... you want to have it both ways... because you didn't put enough thought into your theodore argument before making it? sorry
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with someone rude. We obviously disagree and we'll just have to wait and see what the market bears.

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05-05-2013, 05:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
He might. Keep in mind the Isles are still considered by many as an undesirable destination. Snow still has to overpay to entice players to come there. They also have no goalies signed for next season.

As has been mentioned in other threads, top prospects are valuable for many reasons. One of which is as trade bait to fill holes on the roster.
Nabby says he wants to stay. Snow says he wants to keep him.
Isles own Thomas rights and could toll them.TT reportedly wants to play, so he can be considered for Team USA's Olympic team. His first choice is Philly, but Snow doesn't pay attention to those minor details

Imo the Isles would not trade either Strome or Nelson for a 1 yr pickup.

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05-05-2013, 05:15 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
You can start with Chicago, Toronto and Florida.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens. He's probably going to move, unless Darcy continues to be a moron.


only silly buffalo fans think this nonsense

Newsflash... Chicago has a method... they already won a cup with it... and now they won a President's trophy with it...

those who believe that if Chicago doesn't win a cup, they will immediately turn their back on their beliefs are absolute fools

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05-05-2013, 05:30 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post


only silly buffalo fans think this nonsense

Newsflash... Chicago has a method... they already won a cup with it... and now they won a President's trophy with it...

those who believe that if Chicago doesn't win a cup, they will immediately turn their back on their beliefs are absolute fools
Eat 60% of Miller's salary. Why wouldn't Chicago want to jump on that for a season?

e: This is of course assuming Crawford's play drops, because they could still easily win the cup this year.

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05-05-2013, 05:41 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post


only silly buffalo fans think this nonsense

Newsflash... Chicago has a method... they already won a cup with it... and now they won a President's trophy with it...

those who believe that if Chicago doesn't win a cup, they will immediately turn their back on their beliefs are absolute fools
I don't see anybody thinking that Chicago will change their plan simply because they don't win a Cup. Some people (including me) think they COULD consider Miller if, in the process of not winning a Cup, that Crawford plays horribly for a second straight playoff. Now those are a couple big "if"s, so the chances are non-the-less pretty small that Chicago gets into a Miller discussion.

Maybe the "fool" is the one who continuously frames other's arguments into something he can make fun of in order to put another check under your "arguments won on the internet" board you have on the wall next to your computer desk.

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05-05-2013, 05:46 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Eat 60% of Miller's salary. Why wouldn't Chicago want to jump on that for a season?

e: This is of course assuming Crawford's play drops, because they could still easily win the cup this year.
you can only eat 50%

and then you only have Miller for a year, when you can lock up Crawford who played better this year instead.

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05-05-2013, 05:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I don't see anybody thinking that Chicago will change their plan simply because they don't win a Cup. Some people (including me) think they COULD consider Miller if, in the process of not winning a Cup, that Crawford plays horribly for a second straight playoff. Now those are a couple big "if"s, so the chances are non-the-less pretty small that Chicago gets into a Miller discussion.

Maybe the "fool" is the one who continuously frames other's arguments into something he can make fun of in order to put another check under your "arguments won on the internet" board you have on the wall next to your computer desk.
Pittsburgh COULD trade Malkin to Buffalo [insert reasons]

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05-05-2013, 06:03 PM
  #113
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Malkin??? Use of exaggeration to minimize a different opinion, right on cue.

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05-05-2013, 06:13 PM
  #114
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The Luongo trade has no bearing whatsoever on Miller because A. It's Florida, one of the worst franchises in the league and B. It was Mike Keenan who made that trade, one of the WORST gms in the league.

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05-05-2013, 06:26 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you can only eat 50%

and then you only have Miller for a year, when you can lock up Crawford who played better this year instead.
"Played better this year" vs. "Had a better statistical year"

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05-05-2013, 06:34 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
The Luongo trade has no bearing whatsoever on Miller because A. It's Florida, one of the worst franchises in the league and B. It was Mike Keenan who made that trade, one of the WORST gms in the league.
Don't forget C. It was 7 years ago and the market for goalies has changed.

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05-05-2013, 07:04 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Don't forget C. It was 7 years ago and the market for goalies has changed.
yes, the goalie market has changed... it's become even smaller, and even less valuable... as year after year, newcomer goalies take their teams on deep playoff runs/cup runs...

teams realize that you build a good team(F/D), and make sure you have a pipeline of goalie talent ready to emerge...

you dont build from the net out, and you don't trade high end assets for an aging goalie

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05-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
"Played better this year" vs. "Had a better statistical year"
In addition to having a better statistical year, Crawford was simply better than Miller this year.

Chicago doesn't want or need Miller. The Hawks traded away a cup-winning goaltender and are still contenders. They don't value the position nearly as much as some here imply. I can't see St. Louis, another team with a great GAA, seeing Miller as much of an upgrade over their current options, either.

Technically speaking, Miller may be better than both Crawford and Elliott/Halak/Allen. But in a results-based business, who cares? Miller hasn't won a playoff series in six years. It's unlikely that he'd post a sub-2.00 GAA in either city (those are lofty expectations set forth by great systems, not great goalies). It's hard to fix something that isn't even remotely broken.

The only teams I could see taking on Miller are Washington, Toronto and the Islanders. Considering that all three of those teams are in the playoffs without him in net, I doubt they would part with anything of significant value other than picks/decent roster players to get him.


Last edited by gallagt01: 05-05-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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05-05-2013, 08:06 PM
  #119
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Folks settle down.

Debate the point not the poster.

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05-05-2013, 08:42 PM
  #120
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There is no way Washington pursues him. None. Holtby is their guy for a long, long time, and rightly so.

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05-05-2013, 08:49 PM
  #121
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<Snip>If the get more than a 2nd and a mid- pairing defenseman, I'll be both thrilled and amazed. </snip>

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05-05-2013, 08:50 PM
  #122
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There is no way Washington pursues him. None. Holtby is their guy for a long, long time, and rightly so.
I just noticed that he put together a pretty impressive season. I was under the impression that he struggled mightily this year.

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05-05-2013, 08:53 PM
  #123
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I just noticed that he put together a pretty impressive season. I was under the impression that he struggled mightily this year.
He had a rough start, as did all Capitals, but had a good season on the whole. Combine that with good play in he playoffs last and this year, and he's definitely their guy going forward. Plus, best of all for them, he's cheap and under team control for awhile.

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05-05-2013, 09:01 PM
  #124
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<Snip>If the get more than a 2nd and a mid- pairing defenseman, I'll be both thrilled and amazed. </snip>
I have a hard time pegging what I expect... but I know what I do NOT expect... and that's anything around high end prospects/young players...

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05-05-2013, 09:04 PM
  #125
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It's too bad the Jets aren't in a more attractive market. They could really use Miller. Pavelec sucks against any team that isn't us.

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