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Old
05-05-2013, 08:04 PM
  #151
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No. I think Redden's did because it was an accelerated buyout and wasn't used in the "buyout window."
Well, I learned something today. If that's the case, thank God. Going to need that extra space for when we overpay for the next guy.

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05-05-2013, 08:08 PM
  #152
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Well, I learned something today. If that's the case, thank God. Going to need that extra space for when we overpay for the next guy.
Hopefully there wont be a next guy. Lets pray to the hockey gods front office has learned that signing 30-32 year olds to retirement contracts comes with little to no reward to MAJOR,damaging impacts on your organization present and future. I wasn't crazy about the signing 2 years ago but understood why they had to do it and actually thought this one would have been good like Gaborik was. I just hope we lesrned our lesson.

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05-05-2013, 08:10 PM
  #153
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Hopefully there wont be a next guy. Lets pray to the hockey gods front office has learned that signing 30-32 year olds to retirement contracts comes with little to no reward to MAJOR,damaging impacts on your organization present and future. I wasn't crazy about the signing 2 years ago but understood why they had to do it and actually thought this one would have been good like Gaborik was. I just hope we lesrned our lesson.
I won't count Richards as a mark against Sather just yet as he is having a **** year in a weird season where many of our guys are having **** years, but it's certainly looking worse and worse with each passing game.

Richie's cap hit isn't THAT terrible but his term certainly is.

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05-05-2013, 08:12 PM
  #154
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Well, I learned something today. If that's the case, thank God. Going to need that extra space for when we overpay for the next guy.
Malkin?

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Old
05-05-2013, 08:20 PM
  #155
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Of course theres systemic problems. I dont think you'll find one person who says there isnt.

This roster has been severely altered twice since July. And only a few months of hockey and 48 games have occurred since then. I dont think many coaches at all would know what type of team they had coming off this situation during a lockout shortened season with no training camp. But many fans what they want, and want it NOW! Variables be damned.

You want to make an argument that Torts is too stubborn to change his style of play? Or that hes simply unable? Thats a legitimate conversation to have. One that will take more time to answer.

The fact that there are several players on the roster that just simply aren't very good is a very real problem as well.

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Old
05-05-2013, 08:25 PM
  #156
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Of course theres systemic problems. I dont think you'll find one person who says there isnt.

This roster has been severely altered twice since July. And only a few months of hockey and 48 games have occurred since then. I dont think many coaches at all would know what type of team they had coming off this situation during a lockout shortened season with no training camp. But many fans what they want, and want it NOW! Variables be damned.

You want to make an argument that Torts is too stubborn to change his style of play? Or that hes simply unable? Thats a legitimate conversation to have. One that will take more time to answer.

The fact that there are several players on the roster that just simply aren't very good is a very real problem as well.
The matter of the fact is that there are players on EVERY roster that aren't very good. They're 4th line players for a reason.

The thing is, were not playing to our strengths and were not using our players as best we can. That is a coaching problem. We do have some very good players here.

Hags-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Richards-Nash
Clowe-Brassard-Dorsett
Asham-Boyle-Powe

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Del Zotto-Moore

Lundqvist

Those are some very good hockey players, and a very solid core. We should not be struggling to beat a bunch of mercenaries in the caps.

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05-05-2013, 08:26 PM
  #157
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Torts has a petulant personality that wears on people eventually. He also is as stubborn as any Rangers coach I have seen. He would rather bang his head through a brick wall than go around the wall.

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05-05-2013, 08:26 PM
  #158
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Rangers must have the worst track record in the league when it comes to free agent signings staying with the team for the duration of their contract.

Redden, Drury, Gomez, Rozsival, Kotalik, Gaborik - all bought out or traded. Richards is next, and there are probably more that I have forgotten.

Someone in the organization needs to plan an intervention for Sather the next time he tries to sign a player to a multi-player deal.

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Old
05-05-2013, 08:28 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Rangers must have the worst track record in the league when it comes to free agent signings staying with the team for the duration of their contract.

Redden, Drury, Gomez, Rozsival, Kotalik, Gaborik - all bought out or traded. Richards is next, and there are probably more that I have forgotten.

Someone in the organization needs to plan an intervention for Sather the next time he tries to sign a player to a multi-player deal.
Of those players you named only Drury and Redden turned out badly in the long run. The rest played well or became trade assets.

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05-05-2013, 08:52 PM
  #160
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Torts has a petulant personality that wears on people eventually. He also is as stubborn as any Rangers coach I have seen. He would rather bang his head through a brick wall than go around the wall.
Growing up in an Italian family in the Bronx, I actually like him. I just don't think he's getting close to the proper mileage out of the roster. When Dave Tippett has a better regular season and playoff record with Phoenix over the last 4 seasons, something is very not okay. When you look at how much more cohesive the Sens looked this seasons, with half the roster out and AHLers in the lineup, something is very not okay.

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05-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #161
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Rangers must have the worst track record in the league when it comes to free agent signings staying with the team for the duration of their contract.

Redden, Drury, Gomez, Rozsival, Kotalik, Gaborik - all bought out or traded. Richards is next, and there are probably more that I have forgotten.

Someone in the organization needs to plan an intervention for Sather the next time he tries to sign a player to a multi-player deal.
Gaborik came here and put up 40 goals twice in 3 seasons.

Rozsival was picked up off of the scrap heap after the lockout, for peanuts, and eventually played his way into the #1 D role on this team. That's one of Sather's best signings as a GM.

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Old
05-05-2013, 09:15 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Of course theres systemic problems. I dont think you'll find one person who says there isnt.

This roster has been severely altered twice since July. And only a few months of hockey and 48 games have occurred since then. I dont think many coaches at all would know what type of team they had coming off this situation during a lockout shortened season with no training camp. But many fans what they want, and want it NOW! Variables be damned.

You want to make an argument that Torts is too stubborn to change his style of play? Or that hes simply unable? Thats a legitimate conversation to have. One that will take more time to answer.

The fact that there are several players on the roster that just simply aren't very good is a very real problem as well.
I agree you can't make that many changes in one season and expect results... but to say we have players that aren't really good? up and down our roster we have plenty of players that are more then capable of high level of play and complementary players that are good as well for their role.. I've been a huge torts supporter but i think management is to blame just as much... we had a team that was 2 wins from a cup finals and our team was gutted...i just hope we can dig deep and make some noise this playoffs.. caps arent a good team, we have the better pieces.. just typical rangers fashion nothing ever clicks.. we need to see passion, desire and some guts out there!

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Old
05-05-2013, 09:31 PM
  #163
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I agree you can't make that many changes in one season and expect results... but to say we have players that aren't really good? up and down our roster we have plenty of players that are more then capable of high level of play and complementary players that are good as well for their role.. I've been a huge torts supporter but i think management is to blame just as much... we had a team that was 2 wins from a cup finals and our team was gutted...i just hope we can dig deep and make some noise this playoffs.. caps arent a good team, we have the better pieces.. just typical rangers fashion nothing ever clicks.. we need to see passion, desire and some guts out there!
We have talent and guys that work hard. Its not on the players every year that we play the same way.

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05-05-2013, 09:47 PM
  #164
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Something I've never seen mentioned here is maybe this shot blocking system is taking years off of guys careers. Dan Girardi is regularly destroyed around here. Believe it or not, this guy has been a Ranger for seven years, and he just turned 29. All in all, he's been usually reliable and pretty decent puck mover. His first year, he scored 10 goals.

He's not old by any stretch, yet it seems like he's slowing down just a bit, and he certainly isn't moving or controlling the puck like he has in the past. Is all that shot blocking and taking a beating taking its toll on a guy like Girardi?

What about Cally? Seems like the same thing.

How many years off a career is this diving in front of pucks strategy going to take?

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05-05-2013, 09:48 PM
  #165
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Something I've never seen mentioned here is maybe this shot blocking system is taking years off of guys careers. Dan Girardi is regularly destroyed around here. Believe it or not, this guy has been a Ranger for seven years, and he just turned 29. All in all, he's been usually reliable and pretty decent puck mover. His first year, he scored 10 goals.

He's not old by any stretch, yet it seems like he's slowing down just a bit, and he certainly isn't moving or controlling the puck like he has in the past. Is all that shot blocking and taking a beating taking its toll on a guy like Girardi?

What about Cally? Seems like the same thing.

How many years off a career is this diving in front of pucks strategy going to take?
Square peg meet round hole...

Hammer harder.....

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05-05-2013, 09:59 PM
  #166
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Of those players you named only Drury and Redden turned out badly in the long run. The rest played well or became trade assets.
They were either overpaid or failed to meet expectations, and Sather did not sign these players with the intent of trading them for assets. They were supposed to fill holes in the organization, and then once they are gone, Sather signs another underachieving free agent to a multi-year deal to take his place. It's a vicious cycle.

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Gaborik came here and put up 40 goals twice in 3 seasons.
What about the 4th season in which he had to be traded? Gabby suffered an abdominal injury this year and needs to have surgery yet again. I always felt that a five year contract was too long for a player with his injury history.

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Rozsival was picked up off of the scrap heap after the lockout, for peanuts, and eventually played his way into the #1 D role on this team. That's one of Sather's best signings as a GM.
I was referring to the signing on July 1, 2008 - the one where Rozy received a four-year, $20 million deal and was eventually traded for Wolski. Not a good contract nor a good trade by Sather.

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05-05-2013, 10:04 PM
  #167
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Yeah, I don't think Gabs can be counted as a failure at all. He gave us some really solid years. If he is now beginning the injury decline than the timing was perfect. We also got some really good players in the deal.

Gabs might very well be Sather's best signing.

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Old
05-05-2013, 10:05 PM
  #168
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I like Torts but it's becoming painfully obvious that he has taken this team as far as it can go playing this way. The guy is a motivator more than a coach. They're not gonna win with this 1-0 or 2-1 crap in the playoffs every year.

He's done some very nice things like give this team the Blue Collar identity people have been wanting forever, and he's done very well with bringing up young players except this year that is.

His failure to make in game adjustments and his stubbornness and refusal to hire a PP specialist or anyone outside of his circle of trust will be his undoing in NY. Not to mention that he's a jerk to the media. There's still time for this to change but there's a good chance that if the Rangers get swept or go out in 5, he might be gone.

Sather isn't the problem to me. He's more of a producer than a GM. Gordon and also Hedberg, Clark, etc. do a lot of the work.

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05-05-2013, 10:47 PM
  #169
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The thing is, we're not playing to our strengths and were not using our players as best we can. That is a coaching problem. We do have some very good players here.
^ we have a fine roster. these guys were fine on other teams. everybody is capable of doing their job... but we use people in situations where they don't belong.

kreider isn't a grinder. girardi doesn't belong on the powerplay. callahan shouldn't be on nash's wing. richards shouldn't be on the point on the pp. boyle shouldn't be on the ice when we're losing. nobody seems to have energy or care anymore. we need somebody like newbury or haley out there that the team realizes isn't the most skilled guy but is willing to bust his ass every night to win us a hockey game. cally only shows up once in a while and when he doesn't we have zero momentum and we're flat and stale.

there's w/o a doubt a locker room issue. guys don't buy in anymore. idk if it's richards the depressive, torts the screamer, or nash hipster who just don't give a ****... but something is not fitting in the room.

easiest thing to do is blame the staff and the system. torts gets to pick and choose players that fit his system instead of using guys to their strengths

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The guy is a motivator more than a coach.
a motivator more than a coach, but he can't even motivate us. he's done here. send him packing this summer

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05-05-2013, 10:59 PM
  #170
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I know this might be a completely out-of-this-world idea for torts, but I wonder if he has ever thought of just throwing Moore out there on the 1st PP unit and telling guys to get him the puck, get to the net and just let him fire away. Let Richards stay up at the point as an option if the shooting lane is blocked. Couldnt be any worse than our PP right now.

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05-05-2013, 11:05 PM
  #171
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I know this might be a completely out-of-this-world idea for torts, but I wonder if he has ever thought of just throwing Moore out there on the 1st PP unit and telling guys to get him the puck, get to the net and just let him fire away. Let Richards stay up at the point as an option if the shooting lane is blocked. Couldnt be any worse than our PP right now.
Nope, we don't do offense and shooting is part of offense

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Old
05-05-2013, 11:06 PM
  #172
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The matter of the fact is that there are players on EVERY roster that aren't very good. They're 4th line players for a reason.

The thing is, were not playing to our strengths and were not using our players as best we can. That is a coaching problem. We do have some very good players here.

Hags-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Richards-Nash
Clowe-Brassard-Dorsett
Asham-Boyle-Powe

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Del Zotto-Moore

Lundqvist

Those are some very good hockey players, and a very solid core. We should not be struggling to beat a bunch of mercenaries in the caps.
That lineup has never played a game together ever, right?

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Old
05-05-2013, 11:14 PM
  #173
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there's w/o a doubt a locker room issue. guys don't buy in anymore. idk if it's richards the depressive, torts the screamer, or nash hipster who just don't give a ****... but something is not fitting in the room.

easiest thing to do is blame the staff and the system. torts gets to pick and choose players that fit his system instead of using guys to their strengths


a motivator more than a coach, but he can't even motivate us. he's done here. send him packing this summer
I thought this was solved with the removal of Marian "Locker room cancer" Gaborik?

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05-05-2013, 11:18 PM
  #174
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That lineup has never played a game together ever, right?
Every team has injuries. If we can't deal with one or two injuries were not going anywhere anyway. It's not like we're missing Lundqvist.

If anyone's still up, I suggest you watch the San Jose Sharks play. Watch how they use their d in their transition play. If their forwards get the puck and see something they don't like or don't see a clear lane/entry they send it back to their D to reset and try again. It's such a joy to watch.

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05-05-2013, 11:19 PM
  #175
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I thought this was solved with the removal of Marian "Locker room cancer" Gaborik?
I can tell you that neither Gaborik, Richards nor Nash have been the big Torts retractors/sceptics in the room this year. There is one key player that is though, amongst others, and that is a big problem there. And it is not Ryan Callahan.

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