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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
05-05-2013, 09:45 PM
  #351
Habs13
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Two full threads on this subject.

346 posts on this thread.

And the common denominator was that the Habs do not need tough guys.

"There Is NO FIGHTING In The Playoffs".

The Bruins and the Leafs have the two teams with the most tough guys.

Look at the ****ing box score last night. One pissed off Thornton fight against Fraser at the end of the game. That's it. No more than that. The other fight in their series was Komarov vs Kelly.

Now look at the Sens vs Habs. Because the Habs dont match up in size and toughness against Kassian and Neil, they take advantage of it and beat the **** out of the Habs on the ice.

Wonder why that happened? Because the Sens or any other team can. Nothing more than that. Pound the Habs and you win.

But the tough Leafs and Bruins are not fighting because they have plenty of tough guys.


That point is lost and will probably remain lost for most here.

Enjoy the ass whipping on the ice boys.
In before the hippies ask how tough guys prevent injuries!

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05-05-2013, 09:49 PM
  #352
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In before the hippies ask how tough guys prevent injuries!
They are too busy laughing and posting how funny this game was.

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05-05-2013, 10:13 PM
  #353
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We need Clarkson and/or Clowe, plus a guy like Bordeleau to dress once in a while... there, I said it. Habs played intimidated tonight, Neil instigated the physical play, by neutralising Prust (who's injured, no doubt about it), after that every damn Sens was hitting our players, with no real answers, and the play was in our zone... Prust can't do it all alone, Moen ain't doing it, Pacioretty is hurt, Emelin is not there, Tinordi's a kid, Desharnais is a friggin ballerina... overreaction ? Of course, but, we still need tougher players to complement our skill guys.

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05-05-2013, 10:24 PM
  #354
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The last thing this taught us is we need a guy like Bordeleau who can't play hockey when top 6 forwards like Desharnais and Pacioretty are being useless. What we do need, is big guys who can force space when its not there. So yes, a guy like Reaves or Jordan Nolan who can destroy with hits and his fists and keep up with play along with at least one bigger and tougher forward who can will out goals (Clarkson is basically ideal), and obviously a bigger tougher defense is important.

Please don't give me straw men about pacifists because I don't want a guy who can barely get 5 minutes on the league's second worst team. It's one thing to get outhit but you need guys who can fight through it.

We need more power forwards if anything. Bourque was able to respond until he got dumb out there. We need to be able to adapt, which means less one dimensional players of all type.

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05-05-2013, 10:33 PM
  #355
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Out with midgets in with some hard pipe hitting players.

Enough already with DD, Gionta, Dumont, Armstrong, Diaz, Georges and Boullion. I'm sick and tired of watching the habs get beat down three to four times a year.

No more third and fourth liner midgets that can't respond physically.

No more 5th and 6th Dman midgets as well.

Wake the F up Bergevin. This is a HUMILIATION that needs to end.

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05-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #356
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You have to draft these guys and we simply refuse to do so.

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05-05-2013, 10:57 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The last thing this taught us is we need a guy like Bordeleau who can't play hockey when top 6 forwards like Desharnais and Pacioretty are being useless. What we do need, is big guys who can force space when its not there. So yes, a guy like Reaves or Jordan Nolan who can destroy with hits and his fists and keep up with play along with at least one bigger and tougher forward who can will out goals (Clarkson is basically ideal), and obviously a bigger tougher defense is important.

Please don't give me straw men about pacifists because I don't want a guy who can barely get 5 minutes on the league's second worst team. It's one thing to get outhit but you need guys who can fight through it.

We need more power forwards if anything. Bourque was able to respond until he got dumb out there. We need to be able to adapt, which means less one dimensional players of all type.
Matt Kassian and Paul Maclean disagree with you.

And as of now, they appear to be right.

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05-05-2013, 11:12 PM
  #358
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Et le but who think Reaves can play but Bordeleau can't I've followed both of them since there ahl days and they are similar. If I have to pick 1, I take Bordeleau over Reaves because Reaves have the tendency to be a spot picker

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05-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #359
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Et le but who think Reaves can play but Bordeleau can't I've followed both of them since there ahl days and they are similar. If I have to pick 1, I take Bordeleau over Reaves because Reaves have the tendency to be a spot picker
I don't care what they did in the AHL, but in the NHL, Reaves has actually been thriving in defensive zone starts and uses his rough play to actually win back pucks, where Bordeleau looks like a standard goon who skips shifts and plays an entirely sheltered role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Matt Kassian and Paul Maclean disagree with you.

And as of now, they appear to be right.
I didn't even notice Kassian except for a fight initiated by the Habs. Apparently he got a shot on goal though, so maybe he was more productive than Desharnais. I honestly can't tell what his purpose is considering the Sens have plenty of guys who can win their own fights. Seriously, for all the reasons the Habs got humiliated, you point to Matt Kassian?


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05-05-2013, 11:25 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I don't care what they did in the AHL, but in the NHL, Reaves has actually been thriving in defensive zone starts and uses his rough play to actually win back pucks, where Bordeleau looks like a standard goon who skips shifts and plays an entirely sheltered role.



I didn't even notice Kassian except for a fight initiated by the Habs. Apparently he got a shot on goal though, so maybe he was more productive than Desharnais. I honestly can't tell what his purpose is considering the Sens have plenty of guys who can win their own fights. Seriously, for all the reasons the Habs got humiliated, you point to Matt Kassian?
Reaves would play sheltered minute too if he was in Colorado. Funny Bordeleau have the same number of pts than Reaves with way less playing time

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05-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I don't care what they did in the AHL, but in the NHL, Reaves has actually been thriving in defensive zone starts and uses his rough play to actually win back pucks, where Bordeleau looks like a standard goon who skips shifts and plays an entirely sheltered role.



I didn't even notice Kassian except for a fight initiated by the Habs. Apparently he got a shot on goal though, so maybe he was more productive than Desharnais. I honestly can't tell what his purpose is considering the Sens have plenty of guys who can win their own fights. Seriously, for all the reasons the Habs got humiliated, you point to Matt Kassian?
Matt Kassian individually?

No.

The mindset of the Ottawa Senators organization and specifically Paul Maclean who saw a benefit to dress Kassian in the playoffs?

Yes.

Hockey is a physical game. And if you dismiss the mental game, you get blown out of the arena 6-1.........and get a good ass whipping as well.

We sent a message in Game 2. The Sens replied to our message tonight.

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05-05-2013, 11:29 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Matt Kassian and Paul Maclean disagree with you.

And as of now, they appear to be right.
Kassian did nothing in the two games he played. He has no one to fight on the Habs roster. He couldn't very well beat up on Armstrong.
Guys we need have to be able to play a regular shift, contribute and be willing to throw them. I'm not opposed to a guy like Bordeleau for the regular season, but not in the playoffs.

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05-05-2013, 11:32 PM
  #363
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Reaves would play sheltered minute too if he was in Colorado. Funny Bordeleau have the same number of pts than Reaves with way less playing time
Wouldn't a worse team have less incentive to shelter Reaves? If he was a defensive liability a deep team like St. Louis wouldn't be playing him in their own zone if he was only there to fight. The fact that the Avs start Bordeleau 70% of the time in the offensive zone despite being a team with decent offensive weapons but attrocious defense...that says they don't trust him to play hockey. It could also be why he has more points.

The Blues have a great 4th line and Hitchcock even said he likes to play 4 real lines of guys who can play hockey. Reaves isn't some superstar but he's also not a guy who needs to be benched 3/4ths of the seasons. Bordeleau is a situational player who has no business being in the playoffs.

The last thing that will make this team tougher is having to double shift Gionta and Desharnais. Getting tougher means upgrading.

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05-05-2013, 11:39 PM
  #364
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You have to draft these guys and we simply refuse to do so.
Actually no...usually you pick the guys up as free agents.

Leafs didn't draft Orr or McLaren, Sens didn't draft Kassian.

As I said in another thread - tough guys who can also contribute on the ice are rare to find.

Tough guys who can play are often picked in the second or third round, something the Habs have lacked in recent years. That will not be the case this season, and hopefully the team can add some more size/grit.

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05-05-2013, 11:42 PM
  #365
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Actually no...usually you pick the guys up as free agents.

Leafs didn't draft Orr or McLaren, Sens didn't draft Kassian.

As I said in another thread - tough guys who can also contribute on the ice are rare to find.

Tough guys who can play are often picked in the second or third round, something the Habs have lacked in recent years. That will not be the case this season, and hopefully the team can add some more size/grit.
I fully believe in BPA but at least one of our second rounds should address this, and the focus should be on grit to some extent anyway. Who would you target?

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05-05-2013, 11:43 PM
  #366
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I meant bigger players who can play. Ie Tyler Biggs, Milan Lucic, Kyle Clifford.

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05-05-2013, 11:46 PM
  #367
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I like the idea of turning Thrower into a forward

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05-05-2013, 11:54 PM
  #368
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Kassian did nothing in the two games he played. He has no one to fight on the Habs roster. He couldn't very well beat up on Armstrong.
Guys we need have to be able to play a regular shift, contribute and be willing to throw them. I'm not opposed to a guy like Bordeleau for the regular season, but not in the playoffs.
As the memory of tonight's game fades away, I fully expect to see more posts like this one.

Let's just say we had Bordeleau on the bench tonight. The first time Neil pounded Gallagher or Galchenyuk, Bordeleau gets on the ice with Neil and they fight.

Neil is not a fool. He will take from a team as much as they give him. If we do not answer his calls, he will continue to do as he likes.

Hell, Neil did that to Lucic in the final game of the season. Lucic was getting frisky and running Sens players. Neil dropped the gloves and Lucic was calm for the rest of the game.

I am still baffled that Montreal is still believing playing nice gets you farther.

Look at the main board. Fans from other teams around the League are all enjoying the Montreal beat down. Not because the Habs are winning Cups all the time. No, because if a team is not concerned with self-respect, why should others respect a team like that.

And its not just idiot fans on HFBoards, it is teams from around the League. Montreal has become a pinata.

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05-05-2013, 11:59 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Wouldn't a worse team have less incentive to shelter Reaves? If he was a defensive liability a deep team like St. Louis wouldn't be playing him in their own zone if he was only there to fight. The fact that the Avs start Bordeleau 70% of the time in the offensive zone despite being a team with decent offensive weapons but attrocious defense...that says they don't trust him to play hockey. It could also be why he has more points.

The Blues have a great 4th line and Hitchcock even said he likes to play 4 real lines of guys who can play hockey. Reaves isn't some superstar but he's also not a guy who needs to be benched 3/4ths of the seasons. Bordeleau is a situational player who has no business being in the playoffs.

The last thing that will make this team tougher is having to double shift Gionta and Desharnais. Getting tougher means upgrading.

That how Sacco used is 4th line. That's have nothing to do with the way Bordeleau play. Sacco said that he liked Bordeleau because he wasn't a liability on the ice. And each time I've saw him play this year, he looked fine. And this is why he played all the games for them and av fans loved him.


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05-06-2013, 12:01 AM
  #370
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I like the idea of turning Thrower into a forward
No, and why?

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05-06-2013, 12:04 AM
  #371
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No, and why?
He's gritty, can skate, has some skill and fills a bigger need at forward than he would at D. Worth exploring IMO.

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05-06-2013, 12:18 AM
  #372
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I am soooooooo mad at the Habs for sitting on their hands all season and not adding any muscle if for no other reason than to watch out for the little guys. I'm sick of seeing teams going after little Gallagher or Eller. Sick of it. PK Subban should not have to fight and Prust is already damaged goods thanks to Habs management being so hard-headed.

I wonder why the Pens picked up McIntyre?
I wonder why the Sens picked up Kassian?
I wonder why whoever picked up McGratton?
I wonder why Canucks picked up Sestito?
I wonder why Flyers picked up Rosehill?
I wonder why Leafs picked up Orr and McLaren (offseason)?

And so forth and so forth!!!!!! What is so good about Armstrong, Blunden, Moen, Dumont, anyone who plays on our 4th line that makes them irreplaceable?

I wonder what it will take to get these fat cats who run this team to wake up? Do ya think a beating in the first round might do the trick? Well, stay tuned.....
You were spot on lol

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05-06-2013, 12:39 AM
  #373
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Pretty obvious we need to target a Milan Lucic type of potentiol player at the draft with one of our first 3 round picks. Clarkson and Clowe have to be targetted during FA. If things continue, do what Edmonton did with Eager. They traded for Brown and waived his a**, I'm sure he's thinking about being a ballerina twice now. Moen would think about being a perimiter 4rth liner atleast 3 times.

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05-06-2013, 12:40 AM
  #374
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He's gritty, can skate, has some skill and fills a bigger need at forward than he would at D. Worth exploring IMO.
He fill a bigger need at D. Habs d is soft and nobody have what Thrower bring in the prospect farm

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05-06-2013, 12:41 AM
  #375
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Being better at face punching on ice wouldn't have helped the team one bit after it went down 1-4. The decision to instigate at that point was dumb, just as it usually is. Goaltending sunk the Habs tonight, not lack of "enforcement."

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