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2012-2013 Blues Prospects

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Old
05-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #951
Alklha
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
Good that he wants that, as The Blues really have no roster space at Evansville or Chicago Wolves for him to play on one of their minor league teams. They will have a hard enough time placing Allen, Binnington and Karpowich, as it is.
Complicated by the Chicago Wolves now. It is what it is, but it is a good problem to have, particularly considering we have 3 real top quality goaltending prospects.

Talking of Swedish goalies, Joacim Eriksson looks like he is going to be a very good goalie. If Elliott could cement his role as starter over the next 6 weeks, trade Halák and sign Eriksson? Never happen, but a nice dream!

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05-01-2013, 06:46 PM
  #952
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Complicated by the Chicago Wolves now. It is what it is, but it is a good problem to have, particularly considering we have 3 real top quality goaltending prospects.

Talking of Swedish goalies, Joacim Eriksson looks like he is going to be a very good goalie. If Elliott could cement his role as starter over the next 6 weeks, trade Halák and sign Eriksson? Never happen, but a nice dream!

I would be stretched to say we have 3 top notch goalie prospects. Binnington is the only top notch one while the others are "decent"

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05-01-2013, 07:30 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
I would be stretched to say we have 3 top notch goalie prospects. Binnington is the only top notch one while the others are "decent"
Lundström is every bit as good a prospect as Binnington, and showed it pretty clearly at the WJC's. It would have been helpful if he had got more time for AIK, but that will come.

Everyone has their opinion on who has the best shot, but at this point there is next to nothing to split Binnington and Lundström.

As for Allen, he was the highest regarded of the 3 in his respective draft year. He has developed very well since then, putting up respectable numbers on a garbage Peoria team up until this season. He's 22. There is little to suggest that he shouldn't still be the highest regarded of the 3.

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05-01-2013, 07:39 PM
  #954
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I've only seen the kid play in the WJC's, but I was pretty impressed. Good to have him signed, and I hope he gets more starts next season. Is he expected to play for the same team? If so, is the goalie that was ahead of him on the depth chart expected back?

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05-01-2013, 07:46 PM
  #955
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The guy ahead of him is Daniel Larsson, and he is signed through next season. Lundström is a FA, so might end up elsewhere but I'd be a little surprised.

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05-01-2013, 08:38 PM
  #956
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The Blues, like most teams, have plenty of strong goalie prospects. There's a glut of goalies around the world. Think about it for a second. There are 60 goalies in the NHL. Set them aside.

Now, add up all the starting goalies for quality leagues/development programs around the world. There are at least 250. There are 60-70 college starters. There are ~75 starters in junior. There are 20 something KHL starters, same in Finland and Sweden. Then there are other Euro leagues. Then there's the entire AHL. Easily 250 starting jobs around the world.

Now, obviously not every one of these goalies is a viable NHL prospect, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the positions are legitimate spots for goalies to develop and compete with the 60 guys in the NHL. A guy can come through a Swiss league, earn being drafted or signed as a free agent. It's all up to the individual goalie to excel. A goalie who takes the reins and runs with it can get to the NHL, it's a meritocracy. When a franchise has three guys around the world as possible strong goalie prospects it's just not a surprise anymore, it's the norm.

And this is why goalies have so little trade value. There's no leverage to trade someone with a NHL starter's contract unless he's a legitimate All-Star caliber guy, because the team you want to trade that guy to (often but not always to save yourself salary off of the likely retarded contract your GM gave him) can just go, no, we'll try our luck with our super cheap up and comer. After all, the best of your up and comers is probably just as physically able as the NHL guys but only needs experience and confidence. Those are biggies, which is why you do still see trades involving NHL goalies. But it's why teams who want to get a lot for their guy usually come away disappointed. Goalies are the hardest to predict, are relatively useless to draft at 18 since they typically don't make impacts til 7+ years later, and there are always new guys in some development or pro league making a case for themselves.

We have no idea what Allen, Binnington or Lundstrom are going to be. They've each shown promise and had accomplishments at lower levels but that's no predictor of NHL confidence/execution. Allen got a little confidence in the NHL this year but it was amusing to see people speak so confidently about him as if he were the established starter already and just cast anyone aside who've had a small handful of terrible games for this club yet had performed at historically great NHL levels the rest of the time.

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05-02-2013, 09:02 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
The Blues, like most teams, have plenty of strong goalie prospects. There's a glut of goalies around the world. Think about it for a second. There are 60 goalies in the NHL. Set them aside.

Now, add up all the starting goalies for quality leagues/development programs around the world. There are at least 250. There are 60-70 college starters. There are ~75 starters in junior. There are 20 something KHL starters, same in Finland and Sweden. Then there are other Euro leagues. Then there's the entire AHL. Easily 250 starting jobs around the world.

Now, obviously not every one of these goalies is a viable NHL prospect, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the positions are legitimate spots for goalies to develop and compete with the 60 guys in the NHL. A guy can come through a Swiss league, earn being drafted or signed as a free agent. It's all up to the individual goalie to excel. A goalie who takes the reins and runs with it can get to the NHL, it's a meritocracy. When a franchise has three guys around the world as possible strong goalie prospects it's just not a surprise anymore, it's the norm.

And this is why goalies have so little trade value. There's no leverage to trade someone with a NHL starter's contract unless he's a legitimate All-Star caliber guy, because the team you want to trade that guy to (often but not always to save yourself salary off of the likely retarded contract your GM gave him) can just go, no, we'll try our luck with our super cheap up and comer. After all, the best of your up and comers is probably just as physically able as the NHL guys but only needs experience and confidence. Those are biggies, which is why you do still see trades involving NHL goalies. But it's why teams who want to get a lot for their guy usually come away disappointed. Goalies are the hardest to predict, are relatively useless to draft at 18 since they typically don't make impacts til 7+ years later, and there are always new guys in some development or pro league making a case for themselves.

We have no idea what Allen, Binnington or Lundstrom are going to be. They've each shown promise and had accomplishments at lower levels but that's no predictor of NHL confidence/execution. Allen got a little confidence in the NHL this year but it was amusing to see people speak so confidently about him as if he were the established starter already and just cast anyone aside who've had a small handful of terrible games for this club yet had performed at historically great NHL levels the rest of the time.
Lots of good points here P9. I think the biggest issue is how hard it is to judge them until they are at least 25 years old. Look how unimpressive Quick was just 3 years ago.

I think the Blues have a great chance with Allen but only time will tell

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05-02-2013, 10:13 AM
  #958
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Goalies are like quarterbacks and pitchers to an extent. You should always draft one and it doesn't really matter which round you take them. They are such wildcards, you just never know how they are going to turn out. And if you hit a homerun, it will turn your franchise around.

Just look at the top 3 goalies in the league, IMO at least, Lundqvist, Rinne, and Quick. They are 7th, 8th, and 3rd round picks respectively.

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Old
05-02-2013, 01:00 PM
  #959
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Drafting a goalie every year or every other year in a later round (definitely NOT the first) is how I'd do it. But I'd DEFINITELY have my scouts looking out for the 23, 24 year old undrafted guys who are starting to emerge in these leagues.

Another quick add-on point. I don't think there's that much talent difference between NHL goalies and some of their counterparts around the world the way there is between NHL skaters and skaters around the league. Goalies are the hardest to predict in a way because it's hard to spot the separation. (The separation is mental.) With skaters you can see who's really got certain tools and who has certain limitations. Skaters also almost always make their NHL impact way earlier.

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05-02-2013, 01:50 PM
  #960
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Yeah, I'd only draft a goalie in the first if you desperately need one or if it is a guarantee. Depending on the prospects you have and the picks, I'd mix it up. Draft some in rounds 2-4, and always take one in rounds 6-7 hoping that you can get a Lundqvist, Rinne, or Hasek.

It's just so hard to get a feel on how a goalie is going to develop.

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05-02-2013, 01:51 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Drafting a goalie every year or every other year in a later round (definitely NOT the first) is how I'd do it. But I'd DEFINITELY have my scouts looking out for the 23, 24 year old undrafted guys who are starting to emerge in these leagues.

Another quick add-on point. I don't think there's that much talent difference between NHL goalies and some of their counterparts around the world the way there is between NHL skaters and skaters around the league. Goalies are the hardest to predict in a way because it's hard to spot the separation. (The separation is mental.) With skaters you can see who's really got certain tools and who has certain limitations. Skaters also almost always make their NHL impact way earlier.
I think the Blues can improve on this in terms of goalies and skaters. The only question is whether we will have the capacity to grab those players with the new AHL situation. It seems we have a lot less flexibility in that area now. It could force us to make decisions sooner on our prospects.

If we are simply signing those older, unsigned players to one-way contracts then the situation may be different, but we would need available NHL roster space.

It will be an interesting dynamic to monitor.

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05-03-2013, 03:40 PM
  #962
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Rattie and Portland host Game 1 of the WHL Finals tonight against Edmonton. Game 2 tomorrow.

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05-04-2013, 01:34 AM
  #963
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Edmonton wins Game One 4-1. Rattie pointless and -2. Not sure Portland can get by Edmonton even without Reinhart.

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05-05-2013, 03:04 AM
  #964
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Portland wins Game Two 3-0, Rattie with the game's first goal. Series tied 1-1. Tues/Wed in Edmonton now. Rattie one from tying, two from breaking all time WHL playoff goals record.

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05-05-2013, 12:18 PM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Lundström is every bit as good a prospect as Binnington, and showed it pretty clearly at the WJC's. It would have been helpful if he had got more time for AIK, but that will come.

Everyone has their opinion on who has the best shot, but at this point there is next to nothing to split Binnington and Lundström.

As for Allen, he was the highest regarded of the 3 in his respective draft year. He has developed very well since then, putting up respectable numbers on a garbage Peoria team up until this season. He's 22. There is little to suggest that he shouldn't still be the highest regarded of the 3.
Allen is obviously the best of the 3. I thought you meant Tremblay or Karpowich.

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05-05-2013, 05:27 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Drafting a goalie every year or every other year in a later round (definitely NOT the first) is how I'd do it. But I'd DEFINITELY have my scouts looking out for the 23, 24 year old undrafted guys who are starting to emerge in these leagues.

Another quick add-on point. I don't think there's that much talent difference between NHL goalies and some of their counterparts around the world the way there is between NHL skaters and skaters around the league. Goalies are the hardest to predict in a way because it's hard to spot the separation. (The separation is mental.) With skaters you can see who's really got certain tools and who has certain limitations. Skaters also almost always make their NHL impact way earlier.
Totally agree with this. Development is such a crapshoot with them, that you can't have enough quality goalie prospects.

I've said Eriksson a couple of times, I'm just not sure how attractive we'd be as an option. Trading Halák and sign Eriksson (or someone like Antti Raanta, who I admittedly don't know much about) to an ELC would make a lot of sense. Let the new guy and Allen fight it out at camp for the back-up spot, both would be cheap & waiver exempt and the Wolves wouldn't need another goalie knowing that they would have one of the 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by your jaskin too much View Post
Allen is obviously the best of the 3. I thought you meant Tremblay or Karpowich.
Allen is certainly the best now, because he is further along in his development. I could see arguments for any of the 3 having the highest upside in 5 years time though.

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05-05-2013, 11:50 PM
  #967
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How have McRae and Lehtera been doing? Either of them good enough to play 3C next season over Sobotka?

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05-05-2013, 11:54 PM
  #968
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How have McRae and Lehtera been doing? Either of them good enough to play 3C next season over Sobotka?
McRae is a borderline NHL player at this point, we might not even bring him back. Lehtera we will have to wait and see if we actually have interest in him. I think he will compete with Sobotka for that spot in camp if he is signed.

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05-05-2013, 11:59 PM
  #969
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McRae is a borderline NHL player at this point, we might not even bring him back. Lehtera we will have to wait and see if we actually have interest in him. I think he will compete with Sobotka for that spot in camp if he is signed.
boo on mcrae, yay for lehtera. i was looking for big centers the blues could acquire and i forgot they have one playing in the khl.

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05-06-2013, 10:35 AM
  #970
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Mcrae isn't even an AHL talent at this point.

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05-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #971
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We just don't know how serious the Blues are about Lehtera. Nothing concrete or significant has been said.

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05-06-2013, 05:08 PM
  #972
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Mcrae isn't even an AHL talent at this point.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. With his injuries, especially back problems, its been hard to judge his future potential and has certainly hurt his development. Worrisome was that he was out a couple months then came back for 1 game, then was out for the season.

He has talent that would be high-end AHL, but only if 100% healthy. If that doesn't happen, then he'll struggle even at the AHL-level. If he's back next year, Wolves won't be worried about getting his game back in shape.

Also, regarding the posts about why Chorney and Grachev as "black aces" call-ups over others...well mainly because there weren't many healthy bodies left.

All out for season were: McRae, Beach, Andronov, Fairchild, Shattock, Barriball. Cundari and Nesbitt traded. Sonne and Regner loaned out.

Hensick likely skipped over based on comments he made about his last call-up.

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05-08-2013, 03:36 AM
  #973
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Rattie and Portland go on the road in Game 3 and win it 3-1. Rattie with one goal (the GWG) and this ties him for the all-time WHL playoff goals record (47), one more and it's his alone.

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05-08-2013, 11:32 AM
  #974
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Outstanding accomplishment. Hope he comes to St Louis to train this off season. Looking forward to seeing him in training camp.

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05-08-2013, 01:51 PM
  #975
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Not sure Portland can get by Edmonton even without Reinhart.
Interesting since Portland was the best WHL team this year. WHL fans have been looking forward to this since beginning of the year.

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