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05-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
You can make an argument that Drouin in 4-5 years time will be worth more than Kulikov and Bjugstad.

Remember when we were heavily rumoured to be trying to acquire the pick for Ovechkin? At the time the package seemed monsterous and it was universally assumed that it was a good thing that it never came to fruition. Well, years later ......

Usually if you have the chance to get the best young player in the deal it's worth serious consideration.

Of course the entire deal would hinge on how you envisage Kulikov developing. If you think he reaches the level of someone like Markov, it's difficult to trade him. If you think he doesn't progress beyond an inconsistent but smooth 2nd pairing defenseman ... well, you don't think twice.

Elite players to build around are more important than good to great players. If they want Drouin, and Tampa are open to deals, there would be only 2 or 3 assets you aren't willing to move. Those being Huberdeau, Markstrom and the 2nd overall pick.
Drouin is nowhere near the caliber of ovechkin. Drouin is a very nice looking prospect, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think anyone considers him a franchise changing type prospect

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05-05-2013, 10:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Drouin is nowhere near the caliber of ovechkin. Drouin is a very nice looking prospect, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think anyone considers him a franchise changing type prospect
Reading comprehension? Nowhere did i say Drouin was at that level. Ovechkin was simply an example.

Drouin is one of 6 or 7 players in this draft who can become a player who a team builds around.

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05-05-2013, 10:42 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Reading comprehension? Nowhere did i say Drouin was at that level. Ovechkin was simply an example.

Drouin is one of 6 or 7 players in this draft who can become a player who a team builds around.
you used an example of how it was a mistake the panthers didnt sell the farm to get ovechkin as the reason why they should do it for drouin. Drouin is nowhere near the slam dunk game changer ovechkin was. Its not worth dismantling the outstanding young talent pool we have to take a shot on drouin.

You only make these all in moves when you know you are getting a guy that is considered once in a generation talent. Drouin is not it.

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05-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
you used an example of how it was a mistake the panthers didnt sell the farm to get ovechkin as the reason why they should do it for drouin. Drouin is nowhere near the slam dunk game changer ovechkin was. Its not worth dismantling the outstanding young talent pool we have to take a shot on drouin.

You only make these all in moves when you know you are getting a guy that is considered once in a generation talent. Drouin is not it.
No. It's an example that the perception fans have of overpayment is often not correct. If you're getting the best player in the deal, then it is usually worth it.

Dismantling an outstanding young talent pool? There is only one young player in the system or on our team who i would take over Drouin (2 including Markstrom).

Once in a generation talent? Good luck waiting 100 years.

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05-05-2013, 11:43 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
No. It's an example that the perception fans have of overpayment is often not correct. If you're getting the best player in the deal, then it is usually worth it.

Dismantling an outstanding young talent pool? There is only one young player in the system or on our team who i would take over Drouin (2 including Markstrom).

Once in a generation talent? Good luck waiting 100 years.
Thats fine but the gap between drouin and the guys you would have to give up to get him isn't that much and therefore not worth the price.

it's just not worth giving up multiple guys who would play top 6 or top 4 roles on the roster just to create a line of
Huberdeau-MacKinnon-Drouin

look how well the super lines have worked for Tampa and the Oilers. Those teams are desperate for depth to round out their rosters because their super powered line has only been good enough for a bottom 10 finish.

I'd be right there with you if this draft had an ovechkin/malkin/crosby type talent in it, but it doesnt. the smart and best move is to take mackinnon at 2 and wait to roll out a lineup in two seasons that looks like.

Huberdeau-Bjugstad-Versteeg
Flash-MacKinnon-???
Howden-Shore-???
???-Matthias-???

Campbell-Gudbranson
Kulikov-Petrovic
Robak-????

Markstrom


Ill take that any day over subtracting multiple people from that roster in order to put Drouin at the top. Heck id much rather trade multiple young guys away and bring back a bobby ryan type player over Drouin

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05-05-2013, 12:06 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Thats fine but the gap between drouin and the guys you would have to give up to get him isn't that much and therefore not worth the price.
I'd take Drouin over Bjugstad without a second thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
it's just not worth giving up multiple guys who would play top 6 or top 4 roles on the roster just to create a line of
Huberdeau-MacKinnon-Drouin
An elite player is worth more than 2 or 3 good ones. It depends on how you project Kulikov going forward, but players like Shore, Howden, Gudbranson and Bjugstad are expendable if you're acquiring a talent like Drouin.

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look how well the super lines have worked for Tampa and the Oilers. Those teams are desperate for depth to round out their rosters because their super powered line has only been good enough for a bottom 10 finish.
Good job captain foresight. The Oilers started the rebuild at the same time as us. You can't cite their model as a failure. The Oilers model has many different problems and nuances to it. They made the correct selection at #1 each time IMO and will in time be a very dangerous unit in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I'd be right there with you if this draft had an ovechkin/malkin/crosby type talent in it, but it doesnt. the smart and best move is to take mackinnon at 2 and wait to roll out a lineup in two seasons that looks like.
It's unlikely we do move for Drouin and i cannot tell you what the price would be, but useless rigid conservatism serves nobody well.


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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Huberdeau-Bjugstad-Versteeg
Flash-MacKinnon-???
Howden-Shore-???
???-Matthias-???

Campbell-Gudbranson
Kulikov-Petrovic
Robak-????

Markstrom


Ill take that any day over subtracting multiple people from that roster in order to put Drouin at the top. Heck id much rather trade multiple young guys away and bring back a bobby ryan type player over Drouin
It's pretty ridiculous that your actually using these idealistic line set ups as an argument. The future and development is far more fluid than simply looking at the whole system and projecting in la la land. An exercise in futility.

Who knows if Bjugstad becomes a #1 center or whether Gudbranson does develop into a standard NHL top pairing defenseman. What i truely do believe is that Drouin has a significantly better chance of becoming an elite impact player in the NHL than Gudbranson or Bjugstad.

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05-05-2013, 12:22 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I'd take Drouin over Bjugstad without a second thought.



An elite player is worth more than 2 or 3 good ones. It depends on how you project Kulikov going forward, but players like Shore, Howden, Gudbranson and Bjugstad are expendable if you're acquiring a talent like Drouin.



Good job captain foresight. The Oilers started the rebuild at the same time as us. You can't cite their model as a failure. The Oilers model has many different problems and nuances to it. They made the correct selection at #1 each time IMO and will in time be a very dangerous unit in the NHL.



It's unlikely we do move for Drouin and i cannot tell you what the price would be, but useless rigid conservatism serves nobody well.




It's pretty ridiculous that your actually using these idealistic line set ups as an argument. The future and development is far more fluid than simply looking at the whole system and projecting in la la land. An exercise in futility.

Who knows if Bjugstad becomes a #1 center or whether Gudbranson does develop into a standard NHL top pairing defenseman. What i truely do believe is that Drouin has a significantly better chance of becoming an elite impact player in the NHL than Gudbranson or Bjugstad.
why because he has the hype of a top 3 pick?

being picked top 3 doesnt guarantee squat. look at all the players the panthers have picked at #3. did any of them come close to being worth their draft status? what makes drouin so special to you other than the fact he has a top 3 grade. Would i take Drouin straight up for most of our prospects other than Hubderdeau? absolutely. but this isnt a straight up deal. it would probably take 3 of our A/A- caliber prospects to aquire drouin. Im sorry, but thats just not even close to being worth it. Id rather spread the risk and hope one or of them reaches his potential rather than go all in on Drouin.

I am all about being agressive when it comes to making trades, but at some point you have to use some restraint and let the hand play out. While there is no such think as a true bust proof prospect, the label does get thrown around on occasion. those are the guys worth going after.


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05-05-2013, 12:42 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
why because he has the hype of a top 3 pick?

being picked top 3 doesnt guarantee squat. look at all the players the panthers have picked at #3. did any of them come close to being worth their draft status? what makes drouin so special to you other than the fact he has a top 3 grade. Would i take Drouin straight up for most of our prospects other than Hubderdeau? absolutely. but this isnt a straight up deal. it would probably take 3 of our A/A- caliber prospects to aquire drouin. Im sorry, but thats just not even close to being worth it. Id rather spread the risk and hope one or of them reaches his potential rather than go all in on Drouin.

I am all about being agressive when it comes to making trades, but at somepoint you have to use some restraint and let the hand play out
Comparing players taken 3rd overall and constructing any generalities and rules is another example of useless rigid planning. Who was taken 3rd overall last year, or in 2010 (Gudbranson), 2004 or whenever, it doesn't really matter. A draft is a talent distributor and no draft can be viewed as the same. A pick at #11 may be in hindsight stronger than a pick at #3 in another draft. Development, variance etc are other factors.

So bringing up Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Horton, Bouwmeester serves no purpose. Drouin should be compared against his peers only (His draft year) and projected on the skills he has. I am not interested in whatever crude and basic comparisons draft year to draft year you wish to make.

Drouin in my eyes is an exceptional prospect. A player with pretensions to being a high end NHL player. The type of player that is very very difficult to acquire. These "A" prospects you keep discussing ; Bjugstad, Gudbranson, Shore, Howden are great to have, but unique they are not. If you have prospect depth and the opportunity to move some of that depth to acquire an exceptional talent, you without question think about it. Gudbranson is a good young NHL defenseman with nice raw qualities, but we aren't looking at an elite NHL player, at least not for the forseeable future. Howden and Shore will be NHL players but they aren't building blocks. Bjugstad is a little different, but again, i'd sacrifice him under the right circumstances.

Depth wins championships. Elite talent allows you to compete for championships.

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05-05-2013, 12:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Comparing players taken 3rd overall and constructing any generalities and rules is another example of useless rigid planning. Who was taken 3rd overall last year, or in 2010 (Gudbranson), 2004 or whenever, it doesn't really matter. A draft is a talent distributor and no draft can be viewed as the same. A pick at #11 may be in hindsight stronger than a pick at #3 in another draft. Development, variance etc are other factors.

So bringing up Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Horton, Bouwmeester serves no purpose. Drouin should be compared against his peers only (His draft year) and projected on the skills he has. I am not interested in whatever crude and basic comparisons draft year to draft year you wish to make.

Drouin in my eyes is an exceptional prospect. A player with pretensions to being a high end NHL player. The type of player that is very very difficult to acquire. These "A" prospects you keep discussing ; Bjugstad, Gudbranson, Shore, Howden are great to have, but unique they are not. If you have prospect depth and the opportunity to move some of that depth to acquire an exceptional talent, you without question think about it. Gudbranson is a good young NHL defenseman with nice raw qualities, but we aren't looking at an elite NHL player, at least not for the forseeable future. Howden and Shore will be NHL players but they aren't building blocks. Bjugstad is a little different, but again, i'd sacrifice him under the right circumstances.

Depth wins championships. Elite talent allows you to compete for championships.
I guess thats where the difference lies in our argument. You believe Drouin is one of those A++ caliber prospects that is almost a guaranteed perennial all-star.

While I will readily admit I havent seen a single one of drouin's games since the WJC, I havent read a single scouting report that rates him as highly as you seem to rate him. Maybe you see something others don't, and maybe you are right. Unfortunately only time will tell what the truth is. It would be great to see it play out in a Panthers jersey, but it most likely won't happen

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05-05-2013, 01:01 PM
  #60
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I'm a big believer in that you're only as strong as your best players. However, the cost to acquire the #3 pick is too high at this time. It's a risky move that would cost us our best young d-man in Kulikov, Bjugstad who has a lot of potential, a pick next year that could very well be in the top 10, possibly top 5 if we can't stay healthy, and it delays this team from becoming a playoff team sooner than later.

There's no guarantee that any of the players involved in this trade become who we hope they can be but that's why it's better to have 3 assets instead of trading them for one. It's a very simplified way of looking at it but Kulikov and Bjugstad, I believe, are going to be core pieces going forward. Plus whomever the pick is next year. Assuming that's what it would cost.

I'm not against the idea of trading assets for the #3 pick but not those two.

We've finally built a quality deep prospect pool and odds are one or two guys will exceed expectations and become an impact player. We have one in Hubs, we're going to have another in Mac. Now we need our other guys to develop properly and we should be very good for many years to come.

FWIW, I think the cost of acquiring the #3 pick is about the same as what it would take for us to give up the #2 pick. It's just not a reasonable asking price. Drouin and Stamkos are perfect for each other. Tampa would be insane to trade that pick.

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05-05-2013, 01:18 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I guess thats where the difference lies in our argument. You believe Drouin is one of those A++ caliber prospects that is almost a guaranteed perennial all-star.

While I will readily admit I havent seen a single one of drouin's games since the WJC, I havent read a single scouting report that rates him as highly as you seem to rate him. Maybe you see something others don't, and maybe you are right. Unfortunately only time will tell what the truth is. It would be great to see it play out in a Panthers jersey, but it most likely won't happen
Drouin is not guaranteed anything. Nor are any of the other players we are discussing.

Rates him as highly as i do? I don't entirely understand what you mean. I think of him as an elite NHL prospect. A player who can potentially be a highly impactful NHL player. The majority think this. He can potentially be the type of player that is very very hard to acquire. The players we are discussing are assets i believe to be A) undoubtedly tradeable under the right conditions B) less abilities than Drouin. Your trying to paint a picture i have not painted.

RainingRats gives a far more reasoned argument. The price may be too high. If the price is a 1st round pick, Bjugstad, Kulikov then it is really a difficult trigger to pull. It comes down to how you view the projections of every asset. If you believe Kulikov does develop into a premier NHL defenseman, you don't do it. If you believe that 1st round pick will be similar to this years, then it's tough. You'd also need something else of substance coming back.

I think Drouin can possibly become a top tier NHL Forward. I don't think Bjugstad can. I don't think our 1st round pick next year will be outside of the Top 10, however we don't have any realistic idea of what/who will be available. I am entirely unsure of how Kulikov and his career will develop.

It's a tough trigger to metaphorically pull, however in 10 years time it's likely such a trade may have been an excellent one.

Your paying alot, but we already have a very strong basis and we're potentially acquiring the best player in the deal.

I'd love to acquire one of Lindholm, Monahan, Barkov or Nichushkin too. Something that may be more reasonable. I think Bjugstad + would be an interesting foundation to some teams in that area, and i believe all 4 players listed are better prospects than Bjugstad. Again, fanciful and unlikely to happen, but if the opportunity is there to trade a good player + depth for a better player, i take it all day long.

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05-05-2013, 02:27 PM
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just curious, what do you consider top tier?

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05-05-2013, 02:41 PM
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just curious, what do you consider top tier?
If i had to give an arbitary cut off, top 25? Someone who is capable of being in and around Top 20 in scoring year in year out.

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05-05-2013, 06:13 PM
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I'd love to acquire one of Lindholm, Monahan, Barkov or Nichushkin too. Something that may be more reasonable. I think Bjugstad + would be an interesting foundation to some teams in that area, and i believe all 4 players listed are better prospects than Bjugstad. Again, fanciful and unlikely to happen, but if the opportunity is there to trade a good player + depth for a better player, i take it all day long.
Absolutely agree with all the points you have made. We have a deep prospect pool but reality is, with such a glut not all of them will make it to the big team. Trade some of that glut if you can acquire one of the players listed above. Not necessarily Drouin, since with Tampa Bay's situation it makes perfect sense for them to keep the pick. But people that are unwilling to look at those trade scenarios because they are in love with our current prospects are not being reasonable, and to top it all off they try to diminish Drouin's ability to justify their point of view.

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05-05-2013, 06:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Comparing players taken 3rd overall and constructing any generalities and rules is another example of useless rigid planning. Who was taken 3rd overall last year, or in 2010 (Gudbranson), 2004 or whenever, it doesn't really matter. A draft is a talent distributor and no draft can be viewed as the same. A pick at #11 may be in hindsight stronger than a pick at #3 in another draft. Development, variance etc are other factors.

So bringing up Gudbranson, Huberdeau, Horton, Bouwmeester serves no purpose. Drouin should be compared against his peers only (His draft year) and projected on the skills he has. I am not interested in whatever crude and basic comparisons draft year to draft year you wish to make.

Drouin in my eyes is an exceptional prospect. A player with pretensions to being a high end NHL player. The type of player that is very very difficult to acquire. These "A" prospects you keep discussing ; Bjugstad, Gudbranson, Shore, Howden are great to have, but unique they are not. If you have prospect depth and the opportunity to move some of that depth to acquire an exceptional talent, you without question think about it. Gudbranson is a good young NHL defenseman with nice raw qualities, but we aren't looking at an elite NHL player, at least not for the forseeable future. Howden and Shore will be NHL players but they aren't building blocks. Bjugstad is a little different, but again, i'd sacrifice him under the right circumstances.

Depth wins championships. Elite talent allows you to compete for championships.
Did you steal this from an NHL.com pun? is this a fact? Droun is unique? hes another NHL scorer just like the other high end scorers that are drafted in the top 5 or whatever every year. Is he gonna be good, I'm sure he is, but unique? There is a reason we took Bjugstad and Gudbranson over guys like Tarensko and Kuznetov.. This is the NHL not a soft European league. Once playoff time comes around you will need the size and the physically these guys bring. We have our all out offense guys already Huberdeau and more than likely Mackinnon. Ridiculous idea


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05-05-2013, 07:13 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino Oscar View Post
Absolutely agree with all the points you have made. We have a deep prospect pool but reality is, with such a glut not all of them will make it to the big team. Trade some of that glut if you can acquire one of the players listed above. Not necessarily Drouin, since with Tampa Bay's situation it makes perfect sense for them to keep the pick. But people that are unwilling to look at those trade scenarios because they are in love with our current prospects are not being reasonable, and to top it all off they try to diminish Drouin's ability to justify their point of view.
This makes no sense though. You're saying not all of them will make it and there's a glut but then you're saying trade for another prospect like the guys j17 mentioned?? If we are trading a couple of prospects (and I'm not against the idea), then it really should be for someone who can help more immediately and has proven to be an NHL-ready player at least. I just don't quite see us as being at the right point to make a trade like that right now. If we are fighting for a playoff spot at the trade deadline, I'm all for making a deal to improve us by trading a prospect or 2.

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05-06-2013, 12:39 AM
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If we're trading young players, I want a proven young player in return, not another prospect.

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05-06-2013, 01:08 AM
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This makes no sense though. You're saying not all of them will make it and there's a glut but then you're saying trade for another prospect like the guys j17 mentioned?? If we are trading a couple of prospects (and I'm not against the idea), then it really should be for someone who can help more immediately and has proven to be an NHL-ready player at least.
My thinking is you have a glut of forward players around the same age... trading some of those players for one pick reduces your number of prospects while giving you a younger player, spreading out the age of your prospects.

Here is an interesting article for those that are knocking Droin's ability, and doubting that he is a special player. May not be an Ovechkin, Crosby... but then again, 99% of the league isn't.

http://flyersfaithful.com/2013/03/26...nathan-drouin/

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05-06-2013, 03:45 AM
  #69
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Did you steal this from an NHL.com pun? is this a fact? Droun is unique? hes another NHL scorer just like the other high end scorers that are drafted in the top 5 or whatever every year. Is he gonna be good, I'm sure he is, but unique? There is a reason we took Bjugstad and Gudbranson over guys like Tarensko and Kuznetov.. This is the NHL not a soft European league. Once playoff time comes around you will need the size and the physically these guys bring. We have our all out offense guys already Huberdeau and more than likely Mackinnon. Ridiculous idea
That isn't a pun. Look the word up.

If Drouin isn't that unique, then why do so many teams covet and look for that type of player? Why in ten years has our best offensive player been Olli Jokinen?

Who cares why we took Bjugstad over Tarasenko, or Gudbranson over Kuznetsov? That was 3 years ago, their projections and development have changed, none are NHL impact players yet and it's pretty amusing you're presuming that Bjugstad somehow is a more vital and important playoff cog with absolute no relevant data. For arguments sake, Tarasenko is a better player than Bjugstad now and also plays a gritty/willing to drive to the net game.

Currently, all we have offensively is a talented but young winger in Huberdeau, a couple of small talented but ultimately limited scorers in Versteeg and Weiss (One who may not be here soon), an inconsistent and supposedly soft winger in Flash and potentially Mackinnon. Then a glut of solid prospects who don't have pretensions to being high end NHL players.

That is hardly enough .....

Finally, if you're attempting to make a point, spell the players name correctly. It's Drouin, not Droun. It's Tarasenko, not Tarensko. It's Kuznetsov, not Kuznetov.

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05-06-2013, 07:52 AM
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That isn't a pun. Look the word up.

If Drouin isn't that unique, then why do so many teams covet and look for that type of player? Why in ten years has our best offensive player been Olli Jokinen?

Who cares why we took Bjugstad over Tarasenko, or Gudbranson over Kuznetsov? That was 3 years ago, their projections and development have changed, none are NHL impact players yet and it's pretty amusing you're presuming that Bjugstad somehow is a more vital and important playoff cog with absolute no relevant data. For arguments sake, Tarasenko is a better player than Bjugstad now and also plays a gritty/willing to drive to the net game.

Currently, all we have offensively is a talented but young winger in Huberdeau, a couple of small talented but ultimately limited scorers in Versteeg and Weiss (One who may not be here soon), an inconsistent and supposedly soft winger in Flash and potentially Mackinnon. Then a glut of solid prospects who don't have pretensions to being high end NHL players.

That is hardly enough .....

Finally, if you're attempting to make a point, spell the players name correctly. It's Drouin, not Droun. It's Tarasenko, not Tarensko. It's Kuznetsov, not Kuznetov.
Bjugstad's and Gudbranson's development has changed? lol THEIR PROSPECTS of course their going to change. Do you not watch the team? If you did you will see that they are bringing the things they have been advertised to bring. Bjugstad has been using his size well and causing some havoc around the net. So what if we drafted them 3 years ago, what kind of argumentative point is that? That glut of prospects is the number 1 prospect pool in the world. Im sure Drouin will be a great scorer, but we will have a scoring forward already drafted and another one potentially coming. Flash is inconsistent, what planet do you live on? He is our leading scorer again this year and on pace for a 60 pt season. No hes not Patrick Kane, but calling Flash inconsistent? ...


Its pretty amusing your saying I have no relevant data for Bjugstad being a better playoff player but then your spewing on about how Drouin is a "unique" franchise player without ever playing an NHL game in his life.."For arguments sake" Bjugstad is a better player than Drouin because hes actually scored more goals at the NHL level lol..see how stupid that sounded, or maybe not, maybe this is how you reason on a day to day to basis..

As far as spelling, I am so glad you called me out on that, because that gives me a chance to pounce on your horrible syntax all throughout this paragraph not to mention your spelling of ENGLISH words. Here is a cute tidbit since you wanted to bring up such an immature topic and talk about spelling errors.

On your previous post here -
-----------"If i had to give an arbitary cut off, top 25"

Its arbitrary not "arbitary".



----"and i believe all 4 players listed are better prospects"

I is capitalized in the English language, thank you very much.


------"What i truely do believe is that Drouin has a significantly better".

Again I is CAPITALIZED in the English language.


---"It's unlikely we do move for Drouin and i cannot tell you what"


- As in CAPITAL LETTER


-----"and i believe all 4 players listed are better prospects than Bjugstad. Again, fanciful and unlikely to happen, but if the opportunity is there to trade a good player + depth for a better player, i take it all day long. "


uughh this could take longer than I thought...



Finally, if you're attempting to make a point, spell the words of the English language correctly its I not i. Its arbitrary not arbitary.



***try to stay on a hockey topic. No one here cares about the spelling errors either you or I make. They come for hockey information and debate, the consistent irrelevant information and pot shots you spew is not attractive to anyone here.

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05-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino Oscar View Post
My thinking is you have a glut of forward players around the same age... trading some of those players for one pick reduces your number of prospects while giving you a younger player, spreading out the age of your prospects.

Here is an interesting article for those that are knocking Droin's ability, and doubting that he is a special player. May not be an Ovechkin, Crosby... but then again, 99% of the league isn't.

http://flyersfaithful.com/2013/03/26...nathan-drouin/
See I dont think we really have this big glut of forward prospects that are being hurt in terms of development at all (or will have). Most of the guys we have are about 2 yrs or more away from being NHL regulars. We have a few vets that are signed for another 3 yrs so they would have 1 yr left on their deal which is usually a good time to trade a player to get more picks/prospects or address a different need. Having all these guys that are of the same age to develop together shouldnt be a bad thing if you ask me.

Besides, the law of averages say you wont get every single one of them to develop into top 9 NHL forwards anyway. So maybe we get 4-5 of the guys all at the same age to develop into top 9 forwards, that isnt going to be a problem. Waiting until some of these guys develop more wont necessarily be a bad thing because either way, its a crap shoot for us or the acquiring team.

And I've seen & read plenty about Drouin. I dont question what he's done on the ice so far. What many of us question about him and why I, in particular, dont classify him as a player that I want is that we have no idea if he will be able to do the same things against professionals. Many of the moves I've seen in highlights & via feeds, he would rarely be able to do against bigger & faster competition. Plus his defense is still lacking a lot and why he isn't expected to be among the players competing for an NHL spot next yr. I dont know that his defense becomes good enough for the NHL but I would expect it does. Still, I dont get a very good feeling in my gut that he's going to be a top prospect and with all the comparisons, I think he falls short of them (should still be a nice player but not a top line forward).

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05-06-2013, 11:28 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
See I dont think we really have this big glut of forward prospects that are being hurt in terms of development at all (or will have). Most of the guys we have are about 2 yrs or more away from being NHL regulars. We have a few vets that are signed for another 3 yrs so they would have 1 yr left on their deal which is usually a good time to trade a player to get more picks/prospects or address a different need. Having all these guys that are of the same age to develop together shouldnt be a bad thing if you ask me.

Besides, the law of averages say you wont get every single one of them to develop into top 9 NHL forwards anyway. So maybe we get 4-5 of the guys all at the same age to develop into top 9 forwards, that isnt going to be a problem. Waiting until some of these guys develop more wont necessarily be a bad thing because either way, its a crap shoot for us or the acquiring team.

And I've seen & read plenty about Drouin. I dont question what he's done on the ice so far. What many of us question about him and why I, in particular, dont classify him as a player that I want is that we have no idea if he will be able to do the same things against professionals. Many of the moves I've seen in highlights & via feeds, he would rarely be able to do against bigger & faster competition. Plus his defense is still lacking a lot and why he isn't expected to be among the players competing for an NHL spot next yr. I dont know that his defense becomes good enough for the NHL but I would expect it does. Still, I dont get a very good feeling in my gut that he's going to be a top prospect and with all the comparisons, I think he falls short of them (should still be a nice player but not a top line forward).
This is my exact feeling as well. How will his moves transition in the NHL? A lot of his dekes, shots, moves, etc. are successful because while its against skilled hockey players, half of those players will never skate on NHL ice. What also bothers me is this rapid ascension in the rankings from last year. Players that bolt that far up, in so little time, scare me a bit more than players like Jones or Mac, who were top prospects for this draft, last season. Im sure Drouin will turn out to be a great NHL winger, but Im just not sure that he would turn out to be a better NHL player for us, than Jones and Mac.

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05-06-2013, 11:30 AM
  #73
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No reason to take risk and put "all in" for Drouin. We need Kulikov and Gudbranson etc

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05-06-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
This is my exact feeling as well. How will his moves transition in the NHL? A lot of his dekes, shots, moves, etc. are successful because while its against skilled hockey players, half of those players will never skate on NHL ice. What also bothers me is this rapid ascension in the rankings from last year. Players that bolt that far up, in so little time, scare me a bit more than players like Jones or Mac, who were top prospects for this draft, last season. Im sure Drouin will turn out to be a great NHL winger, but Im just not sure that he would turn out to be a better NHL player for us, than Jones and Mac.
huberdeau was a late riser, but yeah.

i dont want to give up on bjugstad etc

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05-06-2013, 11:56 AM
  #75
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IceManKat & J17...

Keep the discourse civil.

I don't want to read any more about spelling or grammar in your posts.

Keep the discussion to hockey and do so without personal insults.

That goes for the rest of you as well.

Thank you.

Carry on.

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