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It's Re-Tooling Time

View Poll Results: Well?
Go full rebuild, trading away practically everyone and starting fresh 51 16.89%
Retool, trading away some core players and some management changes 223 73.84%
Stand pat and hope for the best 13 4.30%
Cut off any dead weight and go all in for next year or the following year by selling off futures 15 4.97%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:17 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Bgav View Post
Lmao when Raymond gets re signed
it's probably going to happen

will have to prepare the appropriate facepalm gif

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:17 AM
  #127
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In this Order......

1) Either trade Schnider or trade both Schnider and Lu. We won't get anything to improve our team by just trading Lu alone.

2) Edler needs to go. He has been our worst Dman during the playoffs... and again we can get something for him. Bieksa too but he'd have to waive his no trade

3) Trade...... Booth, Ballard, Raymond, Roy, Kassian

4) I think AV's time is up.

5) I can't see us trading the twins but at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to it


I WANT Drouin !!

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #128
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Rebuild, because this entire core is toast.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
Because it's prohibited in the CBA.
My understanding is that re-signing a bought out player within a year is only not permitted for the special compliance buyout...I can't find any information to suggest otherwise

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #130
Son of a Dawson
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Van- Ryan O'Reilly
To Col- Alex Edler

At least the team would be less prone to fewer meltdowns...
Value wise its a realistic trade that fills needs for both teams. Regardless of RORs expensive contract he would be an upgrade over Edler imo and is younger.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #131
TheBrockBoesMonster
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Drouin would be an absolute dream, agreed. But I can't see them trading that pick.

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05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #132
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MOVE OUT: Luongo, Roy, Ebbett, Barker, Mason ****ing Raymond, Sestito, Weise, Booth, Ballard (unless you find a coach that will actually play him).

MOVE IN: Scoring help, a decent 3C, 4th liners that can actually play.


Also, I'm more on the FIRE GILLIS bandwagon than the fire AV one. Fine, if AV has to go so be it, but Gillis has made so many poor moves and/or non-moves I would definitely fire him before the coach.

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05-06-2013, 02:19 AM
  #133
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Tanking for a high overall pick isn't a solution, people don't seem to grasp that fact.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:20 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solitary View Post
Tanking for a high overall pick isn't a solution, people don't seem to grasp that fact.
exactly, look at Edmonton

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:21 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoshi View Post
MOVE OUT: Luongo, Roy, Ebbett, Barker, Mason ****ing Raymond, Sestito, Weise, Booth, Ballard (unless you find a coach that will actually play him).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoshi View Post

MOVE IN: Scoring help, a decent 3C, 4th liners that can actually play.


Also, I'm more on the FIRE GILLIS bandwagon than the fire AV one. Fine, if AV has to go so be it, but Gillis has made so many poor moves and/or non-moves I would definitely fire him before the coach.
So really you want to keep the same team together, less some of the players who didn't play that much? Moving those players will not change anything.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:22 AM
  #136
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3 options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine to Five View Post
All the people that suggest pushing the Sedins to secondary players...and who do you suggest should be our primary players then?

We have no assets that will return players of better quality than the Sedins and the UFA market isn't helping out there either.
If the sedins are here, they will be the top line. There's no other way around that. It's either sedin and try the same old stuff with different secondary cast or a straight up rebuild.
There are only 3 options with the twins:

1) let them play out their final year and walk away
2) trade them in the summer
3) extend them and try to build better scoring depth

I think option 1 has to be out the window. That's like a Flames move that this franchse can't afford. Not with just getting 1 solid draft pick from each draft since Gillis has been here. Sorry, but Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, Corrado and Gaunce seem to be the legit guys. Nice to finally see a post 1st round pick with NHL potential. Jury still out on the likes of Sauve, Rodin, Mallet, Honzig, McNally, Anderson, Price, Grenier, etc.

It has be to either option 2 or 3 with the twins. Either trade them and do the re-tool or extend them.

A lot of strikes against Gillis right now.
Poor drafting. Going into camp in Sept, what draft picks from 2008-2012 are ready for the NHL? Ballard and Booth trades look terrible from both a salary cap and asset management POV. Luongo deal because of the term. And he didn't take a home town discount like Kesler, twins, Burrows, etc. He makes an average of $7.125 million prior to his contract dropping in which case he likely retires.
Never able to build a competent 4th line that could play 8 solid minutes a game. Average NHL shift is 40 seconds. So, you're talking 4 shifts a period to get you 2:40 per period and 8 minutes a game. That still leaves 52 minutes left for the top 3 lines. So a 20 minute line, then an 18 minute line, then a 14 minute line give or take.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:27 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
exactly, look at Edmonton
Absolutely agree. Didn't work in Edmonton, Didn't work in Pittsbur....oh wait.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:27 AM
  #138
Bourne Endeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
[B]

So really you want to keep the same team together, less some of the players who didn't play that much? Moving those players will not change anything.
Proposes for the Sedins is leaving in a fantasy world. They are not going to be traded and it's pointless to think about it. They hold all the cards, love the city and we're simply not going to get full value. Trading two all-star players for a kid that's never played at the NHL level is simply not how any NHL operates. Edler and/or Bieksa may be gone but those two and a goalie are the only significant changes to the core I see happening.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:28 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of a Dawson View Post
Value wise its a realistic trade that fills needs for both teams. Regardless of RORs expensive contract he would be an upgrade over Edler imo and is younger.
Realistic in that Colorado isn't in our division anymore. They have good depth up front and lack on the backend. Can't see ROR staying there longterm...

The backend needs to be re-tooled. Too erratic, too unreliable. Teams would be lining up for Bieksa and Edler. These are Gillis' real trade chips. You don't want to trade a player you just re-signed but if the Canucks get swept and have a 1-10 record in their last 11 playoff games, all bets are off.

Has any team in NHL history gone 1-10 over a span like that come playoff time? I would be willing to bet that's the worst 11 game playoff stretch in professional sports history - in any sport.

Oh Canucks. Always one upping yourselves.

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05-06-2013, 02:28 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Proposes for the Sedins is leaving in a fantasy world. They are not going to be traded and it's pointless to think about it. They hold all the cards, love the city and we're simply not going to get full value. Trading two all-star players for a kid that's never played at the NHL level is simply not how any NHL operates. Edler and/or Bieksa may be gone but those two and a goalie are the only significant changes to the core I see happening.
Well then this team may not even make the playoffs next year with the way the new divisions are set-up. Is that acceptable? I think not, unless we are making a concentrated effort to rebuild our core.

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05-06-2013, 02:29 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
[B]

So really you want to keep the same team together, less some of the players who didn't play that much? Moving those players will not change anything.
we all know the Sedins won't get traded, no point in discussing it

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05-06-2013, 02:31 AM
  #142
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The Canucks should move a LH defenseman. I doubt Bieksa waives, so the other option is Edler? Not sure Gillis makes that move, but sometimes the most important moves are the hardest ones to make.

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05-06-2013, 02:31 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Absolutely agree. Didn't work in Edmonton, Didn't work in Pittsbur....oh wait.
They didn't get high picks, they got Corsby and malkin. You couldn't replicate that type of 1-2 punch if you tried tanking for a decade.

The Canucks defense and goaltending alone will stop them from getting top 2 picks. They would need to trade both goaltenders.

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05-06-2013, 02:31 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solitary View Post
The Canucks should move a LH defenseman. I doubt Bieksa waives, so the other option is Edler? Not sure Gillis makes that move, but sometimes the most important moves are the hardest ones to make.
Bieksa is a RH defenseman, so if they should move a LH defenseman the only option that you mention is Edler.

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05-06-2013, 02:32 AM
  #145
Finkle is Einhorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solitary View Post
Tanking for a high overall pick isn't a solution, people don't seem to grasp that fact.
It might be in 2015.

If the Pens didn't win Crosby, they'd have one less cup and probably be called the Nordiques.

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05-06-2013, 02:33 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
They didn't get high picks, they got Corsby and malkin. You couldn't replicate that type of 1-2 punch if you tried tanking for a decade.

The Canucks defense and goaltending alone will stop them from getting top 2 picks. They would need to trade both goaltenders.
Yes. Tanking for superstar picks is not really an option for the canucks at this time. Nor should it be advocated. This team has a ton of top-end talent that can either be retained or traded for other good players.

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:33 AM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDK View Post
Here's what I would do.

1) Fire AV/entire coaching staff and clean house. Nobody is safe.
2) Offer Edler and our first to Tampa Bay for the 3rd overall pick.
3) Draft one of MacKinnon/Drouin as a legitimate star prospect to build around.
4) See if Bieksa/Burrows will waive their NTC and shop them around for young players/picks.
5) Trade Schneider for proven young talent and let Luongo play until Lack is ready to come up on an ELC.
6) Trade the Sedins at the deadline next year to maximize the return if the team sucks next year.
1)Firing the coach is the new GM's decision, IMO, but I agree this is necessary.
2)Moving Edler is not likely. Most observers think Edler's game has suffered due to misuse, rather than anything else. If TB asks for him in a trade, I think Canucks would decline, unless they took an albatross (Luongo, Ballard, Booth) as well.
4)Bieksa is the de facto captain of the defense and is a core player. Burrows is surplus if the Sedins are gone. I doubt anybody would trade for him.
5) Ballsy call. Schneider is the portable goalie. The return will be better for Schnieder. This avoids a massive payout to Luongo. Luongo is an excellent mentor. Hmm, what's the counter argument?
6) Smart idea. I'd take it further and trade the Sedins this offseason or pressure them to retire. They are second line players, now. They might accept a trade to Detroit? Toronto? It's a massive trade.

I think the key move is the dismissal of Gillis. Without this, the team remains apart from the rest of the league, an odd team run by an oddball agent/GM with wacky ideas. If Canucks want to regain their standing as cup contenders they need to rebuild on the fly. Can Gillis do this? Obviously, no, he can't or he'd have done something during the eight month offseason!

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:33 AM
  #148
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The Sedins can not lead us to the cup - OK, I said it. Doesn't mean they're done, just that we need to do whatever we can to build a new younger core. I guess you could say...like San Jose has done. Schneider would have to be the piece that brought in a top calibre young center. We need to get Kassian the best help and best ice time possible. We should move out Edler too, not because he's bad, but we need to push guys like Tanev and Corrado forward. We need a proper enforcer. WE have to get away from the Booth, Higgins, Raymond, Sestito fringe type players.

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05-06-2013, 02:33 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDK View Post
6) Trade the Sedins at the deadline next year to maximize the return if the team sucks next year.
That is bunk.

The Sedins are the least of our problems. Keep them and sign them to 2nd line money and put them on the second line.

Flush out all of Mike Gillis's problems and we have enough money to sign two 7 million dollar forwards to make a new 1st line.

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05-06-2013, 02:35 AM
  #150
CpatainCanuck
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Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
It might be in 2015.

If the Pens didn't win Crosby, they'd have one less cup and probably be called the Nordiques.
The new draft lottery rules make this almost impossible. Last place in the nhl gives only a 25% chance of netting the 1st overall pick. If your tank doesn't quite succeed and you finish 2nd or 3rd, your odds are even less in your favour.

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