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It's Re-Tooling Time

View Poll Results: Well?
Go full rebuild, trading away practically everyone and starting fresh 51 16.89%
Retool, trading away some core players and some management changes 223 73.84%
Stand pat and hope for the best 13 4.30%
Cut off any dead weight and go all in for next year or the following year by selling off futures 15 4.97%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2013, 02:35 AM
  #151
Moore Money
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oh god PAtterrson :cringe:

CKNW time.

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05-06-2013, 02:37 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
exactly, look at Edmonton
It's because they don't have a supporting cast around those picks. Pittsburgh knows how to build around top picks and have a Cup to show it.

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05-06-2013, 02:37 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
That is bunk.

The Sedins are the least of our problems. Keep them and sign them to 2nd line money and put them on the second line.

Flush out all of Mike Gillis's problems and we have enough money to sign two 7 million dollar forwards to make a new 1st line.
That is bunk. They are the leaders on this team and have led this team to two consecutive embarrassing first round losses. They didn't even show up this series. This is a mentally fragile team that melts down far too often, and the finger needs to be pointed at the leadership group on this team and that's headed by Henrik Sedin. The Sedins are a big problem with this team and it's just time that the two sides move on.

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05-06-2013, 02:38 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
That is bunk.

The Sedins are the least of our problems. Keep them and sign them to 2nd line money and put them on the second line.

Flush out all of Mike Gillis's problems and we have enough money to sign two 7 million dollar forwards to make a new 1st line.
Yeah this would be awesome. I don't think we should move them but hope their next contract comes at a lower amount ($4-4.25m? I think this is unlikely though). If we can use the cap savings to sign even one additional gamebreaker up front it could be an absolute headache for other teams.

With all the chat of trading Edler (for someone like Couts or ROR I would do it), I hope we get a short-term (2-3yr) replacement offensive defenceman from UFA. Mark Streit jumps to mind.

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05-06-2013, 02:42 AM
  #155
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is patterson a bot? i think so

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05-06-2013, 02:42 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That is bunk. They are the leaders on this team and have led this team to two consecutive embarrassing first round losses. They didn't even show up this series. This is a mentally fragile team that melts down far too often, and the finger needs to be pointed at the leadership group on this team and that's headed by Henrik Sedin. The Sedins are a big problem with this team and it's just time that the two sides move on.
The problem with this team is a lack of discipline and composure. If Bieksa is the true leader of this team like everyone claims, your problem is right there.

The Sedins could have been better but the problems run much deeper. The canucks get nothing offensively behind those 2, the team gets killed by taking far too many penalties and the bumbling duo of Edler and Bieksa are basically unplayable in most playoff games - yet they get double shifted.

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05-06-2013, 02:43 AM
  #157
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Well assuming there's no comeback in the works...

Like someone else said coaches tend to have an expiry date, and this is the first time I've agreed on here but while AV has been a good coach it's time for him to go... problem is who else is available right now? That could grant AV a bit of a lifeline if there's no worthy candidates to replace them.

As for the team? It's long overdue but Gillis really needs to start shifting assets towards the forwards. We have plenty of good complimentary guys, but for the longest time our lineups been thin on pure offensive talent. We basically have the Sedins and Kesler. San Jose in comparison has Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, and Havlat. We need more of that, and should focus on trading a goalie and a dman towards it. Roy may be worthwhile keeping around depending on the cost, it was a great rental move by Gillis to get him but seems like a failure on AV's part to establish his spot in the lineup in time for the playoffs (example: that great start with Higgins, then Kesler came back and the lines get shuffled). Some of the kids may help here as well if any of Kassian, Jensen, or Schroeder could take the next step.

That's how I feel they should go at least. And now it seems like probably a good time to ditch the Canucks board for the summer as I can't stand the whining emo fest that is about to commence. I mean seriously, look at the team that's smoking us right now. The team we smoked 2 years ago in the semi finals and have been falling short much longer than we have. Think they'd be in a better position if they blew everything up and started a major rebuild? This is the playoff's, **** happens. Firing your GM and starting a rebuild when you're consistently in the top half of the bracket is amateur hour.

Yeah Philly did that major shakeup, but a) unlike us they did have a Claude Giroux waiting to take over and b) you may notice that the guys they ditched went on to win the Stanley Cup that year while they bowed out in the second round and missed the show altogether this year. But hey at least they made some neat trades along the way!

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05-06-2013, 02:43 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
The new draft lottery rules make this almost impossible. Last place in the nhl gives only a 25% chance of netting the 1st overall pick. If your tank doesn't quite succeed and you finish 2nd or 3rd, your odds are even less in your favour.
Oh for sure, it's not a prudent strategy at all. But I'm sure there will be some teams who will take it easier down the stretch in 2015 than they would in 2014, just for a few extra percentage points in the McDavid lottery.

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05-06-2013, 02:43 AM
  #159
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It's because they don't have a supporting cast around those picks. Pittsburgh knows how to build around top picks and have a Cup to show it.
It's not hard to be better than Edmonton's management, and I'd hardly say Pittsburgh has a stellar front office. If Pittsburgh hadn't been able to put forward a cup-competing team after being gifted Crosby and Malkin, who for years were 2 of the "big 3" players in the nhl, it would be absolutely embarrassing.

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05-06-2013, 02:43 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
It's because they don't have a supporting cast around those picks. Pittsburgh knows how to build around top picks and have a Cup to show it.
they have the two best players in the league

Most likely there won't be another first overall pick like that for a while. Just because they have an insane amount of hype doesnt make them a sure fire generational talent

Pens actually have been pretty terrible the last couple years, first round exits and have struggled against the Isles so far

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05-06-2013, 02:45 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
they have the two best players in the league
And they haven't gotten out of the 1st rd the last couple years, just like the Canucks...

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05-06-2013, 02:45 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
they have the two best players in the league

Most likely there won't be another first overall pick like that for a while. Just because they have an insane amount of hype doesnt make them a sure fire generational talent

Pens actually have been pretty terrible the last couple years, first round exits and have struggled against the Isles so far
If by "for a while" you mean the 2015 draft I agree with you.

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05-06-2013, 02:49 AM
  #163
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True. It's highly unlikely the Sedins will be traded. However, asides from Kesler, Burrows, Schneider, Higgins, Hamhuis, and Garrison, I'd be willing to trade anyone.

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05-06-2013, 02:50 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That is bunk. They are the leaders on this team and have led this team to two consecutive embarrassing first round losses. They didn't even show up this series. This is a mentally fragile team that melts down far too often, and the finger needs to be pointed at the leadership group on this team and that's headed by Henrik Sedin. The Sedins are a big problem with this team and it's just time that the two sides move on.
Hopefully if another player steps up we can transition that leadership into purely a mentorship. We are talking about two consecutive Art Ross trophy winners that love our city and have signed for less in the past to stay here. That is very valuable and I think we have thrown them under the bus too much lately for their perceived inability to kick it up a notch for the playoffs. They also aren't grandpas at the age of 31 and play a style of hockey more reliant on skill than young legs to get the job done.

If they re-sign for a 2nd line salary and allow others to take the reigns I think we would be a very lucky franchise. Sadly, their regular season numbers make this an improbability as other teams would offer them much more lucrative contracts in a years time than what we would given our qualms of them as our go-to-guys.

If I were the GM, I would approach the twins with this dilemma to re-negotiate a $4-4.5m 3-4 yr contract for them this offseason. If there is no interest in the idea, I would ask them for a list of teams they would like to be traded to.

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05-06-2013, 02:51 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
Well assuming there's no comeback in the works...

Like someone else said coaches tend to have an expiry date, and this is the first time I've agreed on here but while AV has been a good coach it's time for him to go... problem is who else is available right now? That could grant AV a bit of a lifeline if there's no worthy candidates to replace them.

As for the team? It's long overdue but Gillis really needs to start shifting assets towards the forwards. We have plenty of good complimentary guys, but for the longest time our lineups been thin on pure offensive talent. We basically have the Sedins and Kesler. San Jose in comparison has Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, and Havlat. We need more of that, and should focus on trading a goalie and a dman towards it. Roy may be worthwhile keeping around depending on the cost, it was a great rental move by Gillis to get him but seems like a failure on AV's part to establish his spot in the lineup in time for the playoffs (example: that great start with Higgins, then Kesler came back and the lines get shuffled). Some of the kids may help here as well if any of Kassian, Jensen, or Schroeder could take the next step.

That's how I feel they should go at least. And now it seems like probably a good time to ditch the Canucks board for the summer as I can't stand the whining emo fest that is about to commence. I mean seriously, look at the team that's smoking us right now. The team we smoked 2 years ago in the semi finals and have been falling short much longer than we have. Think they'd be in a better position if they blew everything up and started a major rebuild? This is the playoff's, **** happens. Firing your GM and starting a rebuild when you're consistently in the top half of the bracket is amateur hour.

Yeah Philly did that major shakeup, but a) unlike us they did have a Claude Giroux waiting to take over and b) you may notice that the guys they ditched went on to win the Stanley Cup that year while they bowed out in the second round and missed the show altogether this year. But hey at least they made some neat trades along the way!
Sounds like you have a little of BWS going on here - especially when talking about AV. I agree that blowing up may not be the right direction, but serious changes need to be made.

Let's face it, you can call us a top bracket team, but losing in 5 to the Kings and possibly in 4 to San Jose is just more evidence that the Canucks record is bolstered by playing in a weak division.

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05-06-2013, 02:51 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
they have the two best players in the league

Most likely there won't be another first overall pick like that for a while. Just because they have an insane amount of hype doesnt make them a sure fire generational talent

Pens actually have been pretty terrible the last couple years, first round exits and have struggled against the Isles so far
When was the last time a player with an insane amount of hype around them didn't live up to expectations? From what I can recall, the most recent hype-factories have been Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin. Maybe McDavid breaks the trend, but only one guy on the aforementioned list had more hype than him.

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05-06-2013, 02:52 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostradanglus View Post
Hopefully if another player steps up we can transition that leadership into purely a mentorship. We are talking about two consecutive Art Ross trophy winners that love our city and have signed for less in the past to stay here. That is very valuable and I think we have thrown them under the bus too much lately for their perceived inability to kick it up a notch for the playoffs. They also aren't grandpas at the age of 31 and play a style of hockey more reliant on skill than young legs to get the job done.

If they re-sign for a 2nd line salary and allow others to take the reigns I think we would be a very lucky franchise. Sadly, their regular season numbers make this an improbability as other teams would offer them much more lucrative contracts in a years time than what we would given our qualms of them as our go-to-guys.

If I were the GM, I would approach the twins with this dilemma to re-negotiate a $4-4.5m 3-4 yr contract for them this offseason. If there is no interest in the idea, I would ask them for a list of teams they would like to be traded to.
$4.5M is too much for my liking. Earlier this year I'd have said $4M, but even that I don't want them back at. I really think it's just time to move on. Trade them to another team and pick up some good young assets to rebuild the team around, and move on.

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05-06-2013, 02:55 AM
  #168
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Yeah this would be awesome. I don't think we should move them but hope their next contract comes at a lower amount ($4-4.25m? I think this is unlikely though). If we can use the cap savings to sign even one additional gamebreaker up front it could be an absolute headache for other teams.

With all the chat of trading Edler (for someone like Couts or ROR I would do it), I hope we get a short-term (2-3yr) replacement offensive defenceman from UFA. Mark Streit jumps to mind.
Yes, its very possible that the Sedins will sign 4 to 5 million dollar deals. And they would be the best second line in the game.

We have enough savings w/o Ballard, Booth and one of the goalies to sign 1st line guys. Kesler could center the new 1st line

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05-06-2013, 02:55 AM
  #169
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Canucks biggest problem is scoring in the offseason and those players are the Sedins, their the problem, if their here next year it'll be the same problems come playoffs. If Gillis and the owers really are serious about winning a cup then this has to be addressed this offseason. There's no more "next year" crap, we've heard too many "next years" now. The only way to move this team forward now is to shake it up, trade the twins, Luongo and maybe Bieksa and Edler if we get another number 1 D in one of the other trades, this is the season to do this back to back disappointing seasons and aging core with contracts coming up. Name Kesler as capton. Next up is coaching AV just has to go and I have no clue who to replace him with, don't know much about Ruff.?

Sad thing is I doubt anything really happens, Gillis and AV are really good buddies and Gillis went to war for AV last year, I just can't see Gillis letting him go, Gillis also couldn't even pull the trigger on a Luongo deal, I don't think he has the ability to make a block buster trade like the Sedins let alone adding in Edler and Luongo trades. Hopefully I'm wrong but I fully expect this same core here next year and the "big trade" or shake up will be Luongo which won't be big, this time next year we'll all be pissed again about being knocked out in the 1st round and watching the twins not showing up and we'll be talking about our goal scoring issues again. It's sad as a Canuck fan but after all these years you learn to live with disappointment from your hockey team.

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05-06-2013, 02:58 AM
  #170
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Yes, its very possible that the Sedins will sign 4 to 5 million dollar deals. And they would be the best second line in the game.

We have enough savings w/o Ballard, Booth and one of the goalies to sign 1st line guys. Kesler could center the new 1st line
I seriously question if Kesler can be a #1 centre

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05-06-2013, 02:59 AM
  #171
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$4.5M is too much for my liking. Earlier this year I'd have said $4M, but even that I don't want them back at. I really think it's just time to move on. Trade them to another team and pick up some good young assets to rebuild the team around, and move on.
or

This guy won't sign the Sedins for second line duty for less then what Kieth Ballard makes.

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05-06-2013, 03:00 AM
  #172
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$4.5M is too much for my liking. Earlier this year I'd have said $4M, but even that I don't want them back at. I really think it's just time to move on. Trade them to another team and pick up some good young assets to rebuild the team around, and move on.
Burrows at 4.5m is not as good as a Sedin at 4.5. I would personally take them both at that price if it were possible and look to move Burr (who would get good assets back) if they were to sign anywhere in that price range.

Sadly, all their agent has to do is point at their stats and how they are two of the healthiest, consistent and most productive players in the league, and they can demand a raise up to $7.5m on 3 year contracts when they hit free agency. That would be unacceptable from my perspective, and like you, I would hope for a trade for young roster players.

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05-06-2013, 03:00 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
And they haven't gotten out of the 1st rd the last couple years, just like the Canucks...
if you win the cup then it really doesnt matter because it is always there

not saying it's fair, but that it's true

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05-06-2013, 03:01 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
or

This guy won't sign the Sedins for second line duty for less then what Kieth Ballard makes.
Exactly, because this team needs a change. If you're happy with our performance in the LA series and in the SJ series then that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to be happy with it. I'm not. What we've seen is not acceptable and this team needs a change. You can't make a change by bringing everyone from a broken core back. Moving on from the Sedins is the best way this team can change its identity and move forward.

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05-06-2013, 03:04 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
[B]

So really you want to keep the same team together, less some of the players who didn't play that much? Moving those players will not change anything.
-Luongo is a #1 (on most teams)
-Raymond is a top 6/9 forward
-Booth is a top 6 F
-Roy is a top 3/6 F
-Ballard is a top 4 D (on teams not coached by Alain Vigneault)
-And changing the entire 4ht line for players that can actually play can make a big difference. Have you watched St. Louis' 4th line against the Kings?

Plus, I also said fire Gillis. That's a pretty big change...

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