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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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05-06-2013, 09:12 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm mad at Tortorella. And I'm conflicted. He's been here four full seasons, but I just don't know what getting rid of him does other than give Sather another shot.

And yes, the knocks on Torts now are eerily similar to what the knocks on Renney were.
I don't think Renney was a bad coach, but he had run his course as well. It was the right thing to let him go, just like its the right thing to get rid of Torts.

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05-06-2013, 09:15 AM
  #202
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I don't think Renney was a bad coach, but he had run his course as well. It was the right thing to let him go, just like its the right thing to get rid of Torts.
This isn't directed at you personally, but I think "saying he's run his course" is just a simple way to make a point without really having to pointing to anything in specific. The talent level of this team is much higher than it was when Renney was dismissed.

Overall, I don't see a difference with who coaches this team with this current GM at the helm.

EDIT: I think what Renney did here is criminally underrated and under appreciated.

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05-06-2013, 09:17 AM
  #203
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I think they are middle of the road.

And I think the other teams you listed (Islanders, Tampa, Philly, etc) have better and deeper top tier offensive talent than this team.
I agree they are middle of the road, not sure about the deeper top tier offensive talent though. However, even a team that is offensively middle of the road should be able to put together more offense than we have seen this team do. I think the general pieces are there to score goals, now are they going to look like the elite of the league? No, but there is no reason for them to struggle as much as they have when it comes to scoring goals.

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05-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This isn't directed at you personally, but I think "saying he's run his course" is just a simple way to make a point without really having to pointing to anything in specific. The talent level of this team is much higher than it was when Renney was dismissed.

Overall, I don't see a difference with who coaches this team with this current GM at the helm.

EDIT: I think what Renney did here is criminally underrated and under appreciated.
Agreed to both the talent level being less when Renney was here, and the underrated nature of the job he did here.

As far as the "running its course" argument, Tortorella took this team to the ECF less than a year ago - their best finish in close to 20 years. Lockout shortened season, no training camp, severe roster turnover (twice), and people are ready to declare hes run his course here? Thats strange.

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05-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This isn't directed at you personally, but I think "saying he's run his course" is just a simple way to make a point without really having to pointing to anything in specific. The talent level of this team is much higher than it was when Renney was dismissed.

Overall, I don't see a difference with who coaches this team with this current GM at the helm.

EDIT: I think what Renney did here is criminally underrated and under appreciated.
I'll get more specific, if you wish. The biggest reason Renney was axed was because him(and Perry Pearn) wanted to create the New Jersey Rangers.

Renney(and Pearn) were both guys that desperately wanted Gomez, Drury, Redden. Sather backed them and then all the veterans turned on Renney.

Renney was a smart guy(although too conservative in the modern game imo). But that misplay cost his job.

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05-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #206
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IMO, that shows good asset management, planned or not. They were able to get good assets for players they signed for nothing but money.
You can argue the merits of Sather's ability to dump those assets after the fact, but nothing validates him giving out those deals in the first place. "Only money" only works until that money causes us to miss out on a better FA, or god forbid, forces us to trade away a prime young asset. The fact of the matter is that Sather was forced to jettison big-money FA's that failed to live up to the expectations he thrust upon them with the contract's he offered. Just because he can clean up his mess, it doesn't mean he's justified in making a mess in the first place. If the kid next door keeps hitting baseballs through my kitchen window, I'm not going to be fine with it just because his rich father says he'll pay for it to be fixed. The first time it's a mistake. The second time it's a coincidence. The third time it's a problem.

Hell, if you're going to throw money around like it's nothing, at least get players who are worth the money. This team can't even do that. How much better would this team have been with Streit instead of Redden?

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05-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #207
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As far as the "running its course" argument, Tortorella took this team to the ECF less than a year ago - their best finish in close to 20 years. Lockout shortened season, no training camp, severe roster turnover (twice), and people are ready to declare hes run his course here? Thats strange.
Not to mention the consistent inconsistency with personnel on his roster between the offseason roster change, injuries and pretty big turnover at the deadline.

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05-06-2013, 09:24 AM
  #208
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I'll get more specific, if you wish. The biggest reason Renney was axed was because him(and Perry Pearn) wanted to create the New Jersey Rangers.

Renney(and Pearn) were both guys that desperately wanted Gomez, Drury, Redden. Sather backed them and then all the veterans turned on Renney.

Renney was a smart guy(although too conservative in the modern game imo). But that misplay cost his job.
So, it sure seems like the same symptom running its course again. Management, fans, and players thinking a roster is better than it really is and wanting to open up the game. Be careful what you wish for.

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05-06-2013, 09:28 AM
  #209
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I'll get more specific, if you wish. The biggest reason Renney was axed was because him(and Perry Pearn) wanted to create the New Jersey Rangers.
Sounds like the right idea with the personell they had with the likes of an ancient Naslund, a heartless Zherdev, an indifferent Gomez and young Callahan and Dubinsky.

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IRenney(and Pearn) were both guys that desperately wanted Gomez, Drury, Redden. Sather backed them and then all the veterans turned on Renney.
I don't recall them being "desperate" for all three. I also don't recall the veterans turned on Renney. At least their play under Torts didn't show any real difference

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Renney was a smart guy(although too conservative in the modern game imo). But that misplay cost his job.
He was a classy guy who played a large part of bring respectability to this team. And was an eloquent voice of reason with a GM who is above the world. He was the first Ranger coach is years who injected the lineup with youth. You can say he was too conservative. I saw him doing all he can to put his best player in position to win.

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05-06-2013, 09:29 AM
  #210
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So, it sure seems like the same symptom running its course again. Management, fans, and players thinking a roster is better than it really is and wanting to open up the game. Be careful what you wish for.
No, I don't consider Nash as a bad pick up. I'm not even on the fire Richards bandwagon as of yet. I don't expect this team to be a run/gun team. I do expect them to develop some sort puck possession game, and proper transition.

I don't think its all that difficult with this current roster.

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05-06-2013, 09:31 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sounds like the right idea with the personell they had with the likes of an ancient Naslund, a heartless Zherdev, an indifferent Gomez and young Callahan and Dubinsky.



I don't recall them being "desperate" for all three. I also don't recall the veterans turned on Renney. At least their play under Torts didn't show any real difference



He was a classy guy who played a large part of bring respectability to this team. And was an eloquent voice of reason with a GM who is above the world. He was the first Ranger coach is years who injected the lineup with youth. You can say he was too conservative. I saw him doing all he can to put his best player in position to win.
You don't remember the bag skate incident? You don't remember BOTH Drury and Gomez going to Sather and wanting Renney removed?

Drury/Gomez were both guys that Renney/Pearn lobbied for heavily. Renney was done with Jagr because he couldn't play a two way game. Renney wanted two way players. Sather went and got him two way players and they turned on him.

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05-06-2013, 09:32 AM
  #212
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No, I don't consider Nash as a bad pick up. I'm not even on the fire Richards bandwagon as of yet. I don't expect this team to be a run/gun team. I do expect them to develop some sort puck possession game, and proper transition.

I don't think its all that difficult with this current roster.
Considering the strange shortened season, and the severe roster turnover thats been occurring all season, I dont think its as easy as you're thinking it should be. This isnt a video game.

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05-06-2013, 09:35 AM
  #213
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Considering the strange shortened season, and the severe roster turnover thats been occurring all season, I dont think its as easy as you're thinking it should be. This isnt a video game.
oh please. The same systemic problems were there last season as well. We didn't have a great transition game last season. We still had an abysmal PP. We still couldn't score goals. The only teams we could beat in the playoffs were a 7th/8th seed(and barely at that).

I think your overrating last season severely.

Whats Torts going to do next season? You think he is going to implement a new system? Thats not going to happen. We are going to play the same way we have played since '11. But we are going to have even more square pegs to hammer in round holes.

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05-06-2013, 09:36 AM
  #214
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You don't remember the bag skate incident? You don't remember BOTH Drury and Gomez going to Sather and wanting Renney removed?
I don't remember the skate bag incident. And if I'm Sather, I would tell both Gomez and Drury to shut up and play.

I do remember both of them speaking favorably of Renney when they signed.

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Drury/Gomez were both guys that Renney/Pearn lobbied for heavily. Renney was done with Jagr because he couldn't play a two way game. Renney wanted two way players. Sather went and got him two way players and they turned on him.
When was Gomez ever a two-way player?

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05-06-2013, 09:36 AM
  #215
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oh please. The same systemic problems were there last season as well. We didn't have a great transition game last season. We still had an abysmal PP. We still score goals. The only teams we could beat in the playoffs were a 7th/8th seed(and barely at that).

I think your overrating last season severely.
And, surprise, I think you're underrating last season - and the job Tortorella did.

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05-06-2013, 09:38 AM
  #216
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You don't remember the bag skate incident? You don't remember BOTH Drury and Gomez going to Sather and wanting Renney removed?

Drury/Gomez were both guys that Renney/Pearn lobbied for heavily. Renney was done with Jagr because he couldn't play a two way game. Renney wanted two way players. Sather went and got him two way players and they turned on him.
This seems like revisionist history. Jagr and Renney got along just fine. Jagr left because his contract was up and his numbers were decreasing significantly, yet he still wanted to be paid like a superstar. That didnt have anything to do with Renney and Jagr's relationship. It was a business decision.

I also couldnt envision Drury going to Sather with Renney problems. Gomez, on the other hand....

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05-06-2013, 09:39 AM
  #217
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And, surprise, I think you're underrating last season - and the job Tortorella did.
What? Ride our hot goalie and overwork our D corps? Just so we could get outed by a marginal Devils team that struggled to beat Florida in the first round. Real bang up job there.

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05-06-2013, 09:41 AM
  #218
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This seems like revisionist history. Jagr and Renney got along just fine. Jagr left because his contract was up and his numbers were decreasing significantly, yet he still wanted to be paid like a superstar. That didnt have anything to do with Renney and Jagr's relationship. It was a business decision.

I also couldnt envision Drury going to Sather with Renney problems. Gomez, on the other hand....
I think, on a personal level, Jagr and Renney got along fine. But Renney didn't want Jagr on the team because he wasn't the type of player he wanted to coach.

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05-06-2013, 09:41 AM
  #219
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What? Ride our hot goalie and overwork our D corps? Just so we could get outed by a marginal Devils team that struggled to beat Florida in the first round. Real bang up job there.
Ha. I mean, I just cant help but laugh. Everyone is in search of the perfect hockey team. If you think that anything should be easy in this game, then you're watching the wrong sport.

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05-06-2013, 09:42 AM
  #220
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I still just don't see how anyone realistically can get behind Torts coaching the Ranges. what does this guy do good?? He can't motivate anyone anymore, he's got favorites, he's got a my way or the highway ego, his system has been dead in the nhl for years, he's horrible to the media and he represents our team being a sore loser, he sits players for making mistakes, and the Rangers have a non existent offense with him. so someone who sports him PLEASE tell me why

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05-06-2013, 09:43 AM
  #221
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If you continue to severely overrate the talent this squad has, I could see how this could work you into a frenzy.
I'm not stating that we have cream of the crop, top-tier talent ala the Blackhawks or Pens, or even on the same level as the Kings. But we have enough talent to create more offensive pressure and chances than what we currently mustard. We might have middle of the road talent, but we look offensively challenged like the bottom-dwellers of the league, if not the bottom. This, is clearly a systemic issue.

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05-06-2013, 09:44 AM
  #222
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Ha. I mean, I just cant help but laugh. Everyone is in search of the perfect hockey team. If you think that anything should be easy in this game, then you're watching the wrong sport.
I am not searching for perfection. I'm searching for a coach that can teach a functional transition game. My demands aren't all that crazy pal. As I said, Torts can't coach a transition game post-05 lockout.

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05-06-2013, 09:45 AM
  #223
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I still just don't see how anyone realistically can get behind Torts coaching the Ranges. what does this guy do good?? He can't motivate anyone anymore, he's got favorites, he's got a my way or the highway ego, his system has been dead in the nhl for years, he's horrible to the media and he represents our team being a sore loser, he sits players for making mistakes, and the Rangers have a non existent offense with him. so someone who sports him PLEASE tell me why
Cuz 1st in the east last year!!

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05-06-2013, 09:47 AM
  #224
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Seems some of you guys are...less than pleased

http://thefarmclub.net/2013/05/06/th...unning-comedy/

Maybe expectations were just a smidge too high? Honestly, I don't even know what that's like anymore as a Sabres fan so I can understand the frustration.

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05-06-2013, 09:47 AM
  #225
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I still just don't see how anyone realistically can get behind Torts coaching the Ranges. what does this guy do good?? He can't motivate anyone anymore, he's got favorites, he's got a my way or the highway ego, his system has been dead in the nhl for years, he's horrible to the media and he represents our team being a sore loser, he sits players for making mistakes, and the Rangers have a non existent offense with him. so someone who sports him PLEASE tell me why
His system isn't dead. The Kings haven't exactly scored a ton of goals in the regular season either but they have a cup.

Only one of Nash, Richards, Stepan, and Callahan had to go create or score a goal last game and they didn't. A lot of this should fall on the players. There's no excuse for scoring one fluke goal in two games regardless of the system.

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