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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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Old
05-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I still just don't see how anyone realistically can get behind Torts coaching the Ranges. what does this guy do good?? He can't motivate anyone anymore, he's got favorites, he's got a my way or the highway ego, his system has been dead in the nhl for years, he's horrible to the media and he represents our team being a sore loser, he sits players for making mistakes, and the Rangers have a non existent offense with him. so someone who sports him PLEASE tell me why
Im not even a huge fan of the guy. I just dont think yet another coaching change under the Sather regime will yield many dividends from a results perspective.

The fanbase wants its blood and they want it NOW, but much like Sather, they have no plan for the future.

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05-06-2013, 09:51 AM
  #227
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I've been brainstorming ideas on how to get Sather out of there. Nothin yet

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05-06-2013, 09:55 AM
  #228
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I've been brainstorming ideas on how to get Sather out of there. Nothin yet
Its his job until he steps down or dies. Thats just the way it is.

And hes the real problem beyond Tortorella. But lets move on to coach #6 in his 13 year tenure (including himself). Thats the tonic!

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05-06-2013, 09:59 AM
  #229
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Its his job until he steps down or dies. Thats just the way it is.

And hes the real problem beyond Tortorella. But lets move on to coach #6 in his 13 year tenure (including himself). Thats the tonic!
But you just summed it up. Sather isn't going anywhere so the best we can hope for is try a new coach with a new approach. Although I think even if the rangers get swept and score 1 goal this whole series then he still won't be gone. He will get till at least christmas this year before he feels any pressure. And although I am not sure a new coach would make a difference I can't stand to watch their inept offense anymore or to see them constantly trying the same garbage that doesn't work. Will it help? Who knows? I am just not sure it could be worse at this point.

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05-06-2013, 10:07 AM
  #230
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This article is awful. it makes no mention of how Richards and Gabs (Gabs played phenomenally well for Torts scoring 40 twice in 3 years) fell off a cliff which hurt the ranges top end NOT the trade

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05-06-2013, 10:12 AM
  #231
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It's not a great team on based purely on offense:
  • Nash is the only legit top line player.
  • Stepan needs to repeat this year's production and play before I put him in that category.
  • Hagelin is not a top line player on a Cup contender.
  • I love Callahan, but he's not a top 3 player either.
  • Richards is on the downside of his career.
  • Zuccarello is still an unknown entity who still has not played a full NHL season's worth of games.
  • Brassard has shown flashes which is nice. But it also means he's inconsistent.
  • I don't feel like I have a good grasp on what Dorsett is, but to pencil him in on the third line is presumptuous.
  • Clowe has seen his production go down each of the last three seasons.
  • The fourth line is devoid of offense.

So, no it's not a great team based on offense.
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats a "very good" lineup to you? Especially at forward?

This year, only Stepan and Nash could be considered "very good" in my eyes. And my definition of very good are players that fill roles successfully to a Stanley Cup caliber. Callahan is always good, but I dont think hes been overly impressive this season. Hagelin is all speed and little anything else. Zuccarello looks like a wizard against the dregs of the NHL, and is a non-factor against top-half teams. Richards? Do we even need to get into him, and the season hes having?

The bottom 6 has been a comically tragic revolving door all season. Guys like Brassard and Dorsett, members of the NHL's doormat for years, are supposed to save it? Clowe? Too bad hes not the old broken down version we've acquired, or I might be able to give a "very good" award to him.

Pyatt? Boyle? Asham? Powe? Lets put our hands together for them. These are the guys, often 33% of the forward roster, that literally serve little to no purpose on any given night. You're trying to say that 4th liners are, by definition, not very good? Maybe they wont go coast to coast and score a beautiful goal, but there are tons of 4th liners that know, accept, and execute their roles -- usually to provide hitting and energy. We've got none of that.

I've readily admitted there are systemic problems with this team. Namely their grotesque transition game in the neutral zone. But to push this false illusion that this roster is a cup contending team, and a coaching change is all thats standing in their way, is an absurd notion.
Asham doesn't hit and provide energy? Come on man. He's a typical 4th liner. And actually, I thought he was one of the very few players that actually played with some composure in game 1. Everyone else was throwing the puck around like it was an armed grenade in the first period.

Look around the league. Are there teams that have better rosters than us? Yes. But let's not overstate it here, there are also ALOT of teams that have fill in players that play on their first line and do it well. Vancouver with Burrows. Pittsburgh with Dupuis and Kunitz. Look on any team on any given night and you can argue that "well that guy isnt a 1st liner," but he plays there because he gets the job done. No team sans maybe Anaheim with Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan has a "Nash-Richards-Gaborik" first line of all first line players.

What we're missing in offensive talent we more than make up for in our defense and goalie. You can't just look at our forwards and go, oh our offense is bad. Alot of teams include their defense in their transitional play and offense, which gives their forwards more space and makes them look better. Do we? No. We force our forwards to get the puck and go north all the time with or without offensive support. The few times Del Zotto joins the rush are the few times our offense looks good.

Look at the ****ing Islanders. They create offense because they use their D and their forwards hold up, hold onto the puck, and wait for support from another forward or defenseman. We don't do that. Again, that's why they've outplayed Pittsburgh so far this series.

Look at San Jose. They don't play a one dimensional game. They get the puck and make decisions. They move the puck back to their D and regroup if they don't see a rush they like. If they do dump it, it's either strictly for a change or it's into an area where it's a 70/30 puck for their team and they're confident their team can get it first. Not a 50/50 puck. They attack as a group of 3, 4 or 5 ALL THE TIME. That's why they scored 5 goals last night, and also why we can't even sniff 1 or 2.

My point is, even if this isn't a 1st place team, this is not an 8th place team either, and we shouldn't be struggling to score 1 goal a game. We're not getting the most out of our players. We could get so much more. We're not going to score when were all clumped together 3 guys grinding for the puck in the corner with no one stretching out the defense and in a scoring position. That's why we make slow-footed AHL defensemen look so good. We don't force them to move. We let them just tie us up in a small space and thats that.

Regarding Zuccarello; do you really expect him to look good in a grinding system? Are you serious? Open up into a puck possession system and he would look 10x better against anyone.

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05-06-2013, 10:12 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I still just don't see how anyone realistically can get behind Torts coaching the Ranges. what does this guy do good?? He can't motivate anyone anymore, he's got favorites, he's got a my way or the highway ego, his system has been dead in the nhl for years, he's horrible to the media and he represents our team being a sore loser, he sits players for making mistakes, and the Rangers have a non existent offense with him. so someone who sports him PLEASE tell me why
there is no Why. Anyone who says so has nothing to stand on. Torts shelf-life expired LONG AGO. His lone 04' Cup is a distant memory. He is a mediocre coach whose track record (regular season and especially the Playoffs) is less than stellar and has never been able to elevate his players to get the most out of them

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05-06-2013, 10:14 AM
  #233
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I've been brainstorming ideas on how to get Sather out of there. Nothin yet
Start a chant. Oh, and twitter of course. Duh.

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05-06-2013, 10:15 AM
  #234
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The author misspelled 2 names, Fedotenko, and Marian Gaborik Mr.Guido.

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05-06-2013, 10:20 AM
  #235
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Agreed. Terrible sensationalist article.

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05-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its his job until he steps down or dies. Thats just the way it is.

And hes the real problem beyond Tortorella. But lets move on to coach #6 in his 13 year tenure (including himself). Thats the tonic!
Yea.....lets move to coach # 6 already, enough is enough with this guy

Look at Washington. They were going nowhere with Boudreau after his long tenure (5+ years?). Fired him, got Hunter. Got them, to pay extremely well in his Defense first philosophy. Good enough to take us 7 Games, and prob played better than us (again, Torts being outcoached)

Look at Anaheim. Carlyle wasn't working anymore after a 6 year tenure (even though Carlyle went to the Conference Finals his 1st year and then won the CUp in 07 the 2nd year) fired him.....hire a freshly fired Boudreau. They go on a TEAR the end of last season and almost made the PLAYOFFS after that abysmal start. This year.....they have had an amazing season, short of the Blackhawks

Look at Toronto. Pieces were there but not responding to Wilson. Hired Carlyle....and he's got the Leafs making the PO for first time in 9+ years, finishing as the 5th seed, playing well, and 1-1 with the Bruins.

Do you think it is just coincidence that all those teams turned it around with new Head Coaches? I would venture to say........nawwww.

Torts has run his Shelf-Life..........this tenure is over. It is Stale as can be on the Rangers. Time to inject a new Coach with a new philosophy. Hell, we should of gotten Adam Oates. We would at least had a good offensive game

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05-06-2013, 10:24 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
Start a chant. Oh, and twitter of course. Duh.
My heart wants to believe Kershaw was right about that, but my brain says otherwise

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05-06-2013, 10:24 AM
  #238
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Im not even a huge fan of the guy. I just dont think yet another coaching change under the Sather regime will yield many dividends from a results perspective.

The fanbase wants its blood and they want it NOW, but much like Sather, they have no plan for the future.
The irony is that so much of the fanbase wanted Tortorella because his "antics" represented how they felt about the team under Renney. They wanted someone with "fire and accountability" and now those same people are criticizing the way he handles players and how he acts in interviews. It all boils down to the fact that fans want to see someone on the TV who is annoyed as they are while they're sitting on their couch in their living room. People whinge about Cally and Drury for the same reasons. "They suck at being a captain! They don't get mad in interviews!"

I've never been a fan of Torts. I think he's a nice enough guy in person when he's away from the game, but he hates to be "second guessed" by people and has historically shown very little willingness to adapt to different situations. This team isn't stellar, but it's certainly more skilled than the team was last year, and yet he refuses to let up on the reins when it comes to defensive responsibility. I'm all for playing a smart defensive game, but there comes a point where you start to stifle offensive play in favor of defensive perfection.

I thought Laviolette was the ideal coach for this team. He walks the line between hardass and players coach very well. Obviously he's unavailable currently, so maybe give Dallas Eakins a call. See if he'd like to forego the Leafs organization in favor of a head coaching job. He's done a good job developing some of the Leafs younger players and is ready for a shot at the NHL.

Ultimately, I'd like to see the organization turned over to Gorton. Get away from the old boys club and let some new hockey minds get a crack at running the show.

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05-06-2013, 10:30 AM
  #239
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there is no Why. Anyone who says so [defends Torts] has nothing to stand on. Torts shelf-life expired LONG AGO.
Really? Thats funny, because those are the people I see actually giving substantive points to back up their arguments. Most don't even defend him unequivocally and actually acknowledge his faults.

The majority of the Torts haters, as usual, just spew vague bs that isn't supported by reality, speak in absolutes, and seem to be motivated by blind hatred/frustration. The few times I have ever seen a Torts hater even attempt to bring any form of substance into their argument, they ignored significant pieces of context or rigidly refuse to consider any other factors for when this team performs poorly. Its the same old crap after every loss and it gets old.

Sure sounds like you guys have got a lot to stand on.

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05-06-2013, 10:34 AM
  #240
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Really? Thats funny, because those are the people I see actually giving substantive points to back up their arguments. Most don't even defend him unequivocally and actually acknowledge his faults.

The majority of the Torts haters, as usual, just spew vague bs that isn't supported by reality, speak in absolutes, and seem to be motivated by blind hatred/frustration. The few times I have ever seen a Torts hater even attempt to bring any form of substance into their argument, they ignored significant pieces of context or rigidly refuse to consider any other factors for when this team performs poorly. Its the same old crap after every loss and it gets old.

Sure sounds like you guys have got a lot to stand on.
so......what you are saying is Torts should be here for a lifelong tenure (just like Sather), and he should not be blamed or have any responsibility for how this team has performed?

Yay........here's to 5 or more plus years of this sh*tshow of John Tortorella Hockey. I am so ecstatic

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05-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Leetch2McDonagh27 View Post
so......what you are saying is Torts should be here for a lifelong tenure (just like Sather), and he should not be blamed or have any responsibility for how this team has performed?

Yay........here's to 5 or more plus years of this sh*tshow of John Tortorella Hockey. I am so ecstatic
Ha, way to play right into the hands of the argument regarding speaking in absolutes.

Got news for you. Tortorella isnt going anywhere until the seasons over at the very earliest. I dont see the need to get caught up in this whine-fest about the coach during the playoffs.

You'll likely be feeling a lot better this time tomorrow if the Rangers deliver a tidy 4-1 win tonight. Thats the problem with knee-jerk reactions, which NYC fanbases usually excel in.

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05-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #242
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so......what you are saying is Torts should be here for a lifelong tenure (just like Sather), and he should not be blamed or have any responsibility for how this team has performed?

Yay........here's to 5 or more plus years of this sh*tshow of John Tortorella Hockey. I am so ecstatic
No, in fact I have been quite clear before that there are some things I like about Torts and some things I don't. Overall, I think he is a net good for the team.

I have also been quite clear in previous versions of this thread that I don't think he should be fired in this season. But if after half a season next year the team is struggling and hovering in the 7-10 seeds (assuming Sather doesn't completely **** up the roster in the offseason), then I would be open to exploring other options. That said, I don't see many realistic options out there that I would want over Torts.

Also, the love for Laviolette in this thread needs to die. What are the Flyers doing right now? How'd they do in last year's playoffs? You may not like watching defensive battles, but those are what win in the playoffs and what win championships. The team that has won every single playoff game outside of the Pitt/NYI series and one game in the Det/Ana series has kept their opponent to 2 goals or less. And if Pitt continues to try to play playoff games like they have been against NYI, they won't be going terribly far. Not saying the Rangers' scoring problems aren't concerning -- but track meets do not win championships.

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05-06-2013, 10:50 AM
  #243
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Asham doesn't hit and provide energy? Come on man. He's a typical 4th liner. And actually, I thought he was one of the very few players that actually played with some composure in game 1. Everyone else was throwing the puck around like it was an armed grenade in the first period.
I never said that he doesn't hit and provide energy. I said he provides no offense.

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Look around the league. Are there teams that have better rosters than us? Yes. But let's not overstate it here, there are also ALOT of teams that have fill in players that play on their first line and do it well. Vancouver with Burrows. Pittsburgh with Dupuis and Kunitz. Look on any team on any given night and you can argue that "well that guy isnt a 1st liner," but he plays there because he gets the job done. No team sans maybe Anaheim with Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan has a "Nash-Richards-Gaborik" first line of all first line players.
Not sure I would tout the Nash-Richards-Gaborik line because it was overall pretty ineffective.

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What we're missing in offensive talent we more than make up for in our defense and goalie. You can't just look at our forwards and go, oh our offense is bad. Alot of teams include their defense in their transitional play and offense, which gives their forwards more space and makes them look better. Do we? No. We force our forwards to get the puck and go north all the time with or without offensive support. The few times Del Zotto joins the rush are the few times our offense looks good.
Looking at the roster from a purely offense standpoint, it's not all that impressive.

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Look at the ****ing Islanders. They create offense because they use their D and their forwards hold up, hold onto the puck, and wait for support from another forward or defenseman. We don't do that. Again, that's why they've outplayed Pittsburgh so far this series.
They also have a guy who is going to get consideration for the Hart who has turned an otherwise average wing into a three time 30 goal scorer.

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Look at San Jose. They don't play a one dimensional game. They get the puck and make decisions. They move the puck back to their D and regroup if they don't see a rush they like. If they do dump it, it's either strictly for a change or it's into an area where it's a 70/30 puck for their team and they're confident their team can get it first. Not a 50/50 puck. They attack as a group of 3, 4 or 5 ALL THE TIME. That's why they scored 5 goals last night, and also why we can't even sniff 1 or 2.
They also have a guy who is basically a point-per-game center.

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My point is, even if this isn't a 1st place team, this is not an 8th place team either, and we shouldn't be struggling to score 1 goal a game. We're not getting the most out of our players. We could get so much more. We're not going to score when were all clumped together 3 guys grinding for the puck in the corner with no one stretching out the defense and in a scoring position. That's why we make slow-footed AHL defensemen look so good. We don't force them to move. We let them just tie us up in a small space and thats that.
You are what you're record says you are.

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Regarding Zuccarello; do you really expect him to look good in a grinding system? Are you serious? Open up into a puck possession system and he would look 10x better against anyone.
I don't know what Zuccarello is I've seen some excellent flashes (in this system). I have also seen some time when he looks overmatched. The fact is, he's an unknown that I'm not ready to say the times he's unproductive to be because of the system. It could do something with the fact he's a small. And I can't say what he could/should be because he still hasn't played a full season's worth of games in his career.

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05-06-2013, 10:53 AM
  #244
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Kreider has 5 playoffs goals in the last 2 playoffs. Only Richards and Callahan have more with 6 each. The Rangers don't have a spot for Kreider? Larry Brooks wrote about it today. http://m.nypost.com/f/mobile/sports/...Ryq8kwGsK7cyiN

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05-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #245
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Kreider has 5 playoffs goals in the last 2 playoffs. Only Richards and Callahan have more with 6 each. The Rangers don't have a spot for Kreider? Larry Brooks wrote about it today. http://m.nypost.com/f/mobile/sports/...Ryq8kwGsK7cyiN
Yeah, saw that. Thought it was an interesting point by LB.

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05-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #246
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The Rangers have scored 1 goal which went off the Caps D in 6 plus periods of hockey. Kreider skated with the extra players today at practice rink. He isn't even in the discussion. 1 goal. They need more than 1 goal if they intend to get back in this series.

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05-06-2013, 11:06 AM
  #247
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Kreider has 5 playoffs goals in the last 2 playoffs. Only Richards and Callahan have more with 6 each. The Rangers don't have a spot for Kreider? Larry Brooks wrote about it today. http://m.nypost.com/f/mobile/sports/...Ryq8kwGsK7cyiN
Kreider has played like a bum every shot he has been given. I counted like 6 straight games at the end of the season in which he not once made a single play that stood out. Not one play.

That is not good, and scares me alot...

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05-06-2013, 11:08 AM
  #248
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Whether Kreider's bleh play is a product of his own timidness or Torts' doghouse (personally I'm on the fence as both make sense to me), I don't really think he can be much worse than guys like Pyatt at this point. It's not like we have anything to lose other than a seemingly doomed playoff series.

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05-06-2013, 11:09 AM
  #249
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Kreider has 5 playoffs goals in the last 2 playoffs. Only Richards and Callahan have more with 6 each. The Rangers don't have a spot for Kreider? Larry Brooks wrote about it today. http://m.nypost.com/f/mobile/sports/...Ryq8kwGsK7cyiN
Can't hurt at this point. The only goals scored less than zero is negative goals and I am fairly certain that cannot happen. I am not an expert however.

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05-06-2013, 11:10 AM
  #250
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The Rangers have scored 1 goal which went off the Caps D in 6 plus periods of hockey. Kreider skated with the extra players today at practice rink. He isn't even in the discussion. 1 goal. They need more than 1 goal if they intend to get back in this series.
Torts is a bum and should go home and beat those dogs instead of torturing us with this humiliating crap.

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