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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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05-06-2013, 01:03 AM
  #376
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Matt Kassian individually?

No.

The mindset of the Ottawa Senators organization and specifically Paul Maclean who saw a benefit to dress Kassian in the playoffs?

Yes.

Hockey is a physical game. And if you dismiss the mental game, you get blown out of the arena 6-1.........and get a good ass whipping as well.

We sent a message in Game 2. The Sens replied to our message tonight.
ironically, they replied to it by playing the way we did in game 2...

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05-06-2013, 02:47 AM
  #377
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still don't think so. cowen, neil, smith and not enforcers. get guys like that, not goons

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05-06-2013, 06:03 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
still don't think so. cowen, neil, smith and not enforcers. get guys like that, not goons
People will never get this. The problem is not about adding a goon...it's about changing the philosophy of the team and have MOST of the team play like that. You THEN can add a goon if you want....But they ALL still have to play hockey.

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05-06-2013, 06:57 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As the memory of tonight's game fades away, I fully expect to see more posts like this one.

Let's just say we had Bordeleau on the bench tonight. The first time Neil pounded Gallagher or Galchenyuk, Bordeleau gets on the ice with Neil and they fight.

Neil is not a fool. He will take from a team as much as they give him. If we do not answer his calls, he will continue to do as he likes.

Hell, Neil did that to Lucic in the final game of the season. Lucic was getting frisky and running Sens players. Neil dropped the gloves and Lucic was calm for the rest of the game.

I am still baffled that Montreal is still believing playing nice gets you farther.

Look at the main board. Fans from other teams around the League are all enjoying the Montreal beat down. Not because the Habs are winning Cups all the time. No, because if a team is not concerned with self-respect, why should others respect a team like that.

And its not just idiot fans on HFBoards, it is teams from around the League. Montreal has become a pinata.
No, Neil won't unless Bordeleau takes the instigator. Even then I'd see him turtling to get a longer PP. Don't compare Neil and Lucic with a guy like Bordeleau.

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05-06-2013, 07:09 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
People will never get this. The problem is not about adding a goon...it's about changing the philosophy of the team and have MOST of the team play like that. You THEN can add a goon if you want....But they ALL still have to play hockey.
And people have to understand that it doesn't really happen over night. Bergevin tried addressing it by adding guys like Armstrong, Prust and Bouillon, players that won't shy away from this type of play.
After showing how hard he went after Prust, I'm pretty sure Clarkson is his main target and looking at how Prust earned every penny he gave him despite many people believing it was an overpayment, I believe he won't have a problem giving Clarkson that extra cash to lure him in, assuming he hits the market of course.

If we can sign Clarkson, and maybe Clowe, then all of a sudden our team gets a little bigger and tougher with guys that can more than hold their weight in fights, and contribute some offense.

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05-06-2013, 07:16 AM
  #381
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Replacing Ryder with Clowe this off-season would be a good start.

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05-06-2013, 07:24 AM
  #382
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Count me as someone who actually thought that Kassian really did not add much of value to the game.

If he'd been playing for Montreal, he would have been one more player that was involved in the fracas and booted out of the game. That's about it.

During actual play, he's too slow to make much of an impact because he can't hit. We had the same issue with McGrattan. He's scary, but only if his opponent is standing still.

Ottawa won the game, so it looks like a genius move, but consider that he was inserted into the line-up for Game 2 and after that loss, people were questioning MacLean's decision.

The end result often makes any decision seemingly a positive one, irrespective of the actual impact on the game.

The guys I like are the physical guys who can play a regular shift (Neil, Smith, Moen, Prust) as opposed to a heavyweight.

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05-06-2013, 08:08 AM
  #383
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And the memory of last night is fading already.

And Ottawa still will have Kassian in the lineup tomorrow night.

Can't wait for the resumption of the "No fighting in the playoffs".

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05-06-2013, 08:09 AM
  #384
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Now that he's a superstar, Clarkson try to avoid fight like a pig in the ocean. He's not the one who will put the Neil,Orr,Lucic,etc in check.......and even if he would try, he would get is ass kicked. The habs need someone who can win again anyone. Not another average middleweight

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05-06-2013, 08:13 AM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And the memory of last night is fading already.

And Ottawa still will have Kassian in the lineup tomorrow night.

Can't wait for the resumption of the "No fighting in the playoffs".
and he will be as useless for them as he was the two games he played so far.

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05-06-2013, 10:20 AM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
People will never get this. The problem is not about adding a goon...it's about changing the philosophy of the team and have MOST of the team play like that. You THEN can add a goon if you want....But they ALL still have to play hockey.
not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me but here goes anyways:

yeah i agree and the vast majority of people here want that. doesn't happen overnight or even within a season and most of these guys need to be drafted since the cost of trading for them is usually prohibitive. it takes time to completely overhaul a team's makeup and bergevin said that it is what he wants to build, so im patient

op's question is: "would the habs benefit from having a heavyweight enforcer?" which is what i was replying to. my opinion on this matter has always been and unless the instigator somehow magically disappears, will always be a resounding no. a heavyweight enforcer is a goon and we don't need those.

get a tougher roster sure, but not at expense of talent (not as an absolute though).

obviously not aimed at you but this debate has a tendency to bring out the stupid in some people. like shooting red herrings in a barrel that's being propped up by a strawman.

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05-06-2013, 10:32 AM
  #387
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I think our ideal goal is to have a roster similar to Anaheim or Boston. Skilled players who can fight (Lucic, Horton, Chara, Ryan , Getzlaf, Perry) but in the mean time. Look at what Toronto did, they didn't change their top6 or top4 from last season, it's pretty much the same. They just added 3 goons in Mclaren, Orr and Fraser and all of a suddent they're a tough team. That's how the habs have to approach it, for now.

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05-06-2013, 10:36 AM
  #388
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I also heard a few bright comments from Darche on the anti-chambre last night. He said that players from other teams go after Subban and Gallagher and Galchenyuk after every whistle with cross-checks to slashes. Why don't we do the same? Instead we go after the people doing the offence in Smith, Neil, Cowen, Kassian. Which we shouldn't because we're out-matched in size. Also, to the people who think having an enforcer is useless, look how Pacioretty and DD play a perimeter play now, knowing they don't have any enforcers to back it up. You know why Prust doesn't go after Karlsson? He remembers what a beating his team-mate from NY took last year for doing so. That's the kind of mentality we need to have, because sooner or later Subban and Gallagher will get injured.

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05-06-2013, 10:40 AM
  #389
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We aren't living in the (fictional) days of King Arthur's court or Ivanhoe, where a chivalrous champion emerges to defend a damsel's honor. Big George Laraque morphed into Ferdinand the bull.

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05-06-2013, 10:41 AM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
I also heard a few bright comments from Darche on the anti-chambre last night. He said that players from other teams go after Subban and Gallagher and Galchenyuk after every whistle with cross-checks to slashes. Why don't we do the same? Instead we go after the people doing the offence in Smith, Neil, Cowen, Kassian. Which we shouldn't because we're out-matched in size. Also, to the people who think having an enforcer is useless, look how Pacioretty and DD play a perimeter play now, knowing they don't have any enforcers to back it up. You know why Prust doesn't go after Karlsson? He remembers what a beating his team-mate from NY took last year for doing so. That's the kind of mentality we need to have, because sooner or later Subban and Gallagher will get injured.
that's what the Habs did in game 2, hitting Karlsson, Gonchar and a few others A LOT, no one bothered with Neil and he was invisible.

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05-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and he will be as useless for them as he was the two games he played so far.
Sens players love having him in the lineup.

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05-06-2013, 10:45 AM
  #392
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I don't think a heavyweight is necessary, just need to continue the toughness upgrade. Tinordi filling out will help.

The Gionta/DD combo needs to GTFO though.

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05-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #393
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Sens players love having him in the lineup.
good for them.

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05-06-2013, 10:52 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
We aren't living in the (fictional) days of King Arthur's court or Ivanhoe, where a chivalrous champion emerges to defend a damsel's honor. Big George Laraque morphed into Ferdinand the bull.
People really need to stop this hate on BGL. Sure he could no longer skate, but he did his job as an enforcer. He sported a 9-2-2 record fighting for the habs (according the hockeyfights.com), scraping the top heavies in the game, guys like Colton Orr, Jody Shelley, Andrew Peters, Shawn Thornton, Eric Boulton, etc....

We never got our ***** beat during the year and a half that he was here the way we did last night, and in Toronto earlier in the year.

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05-06-2013, 11:02 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's what the Habs did in game 2, hitting Karlsson, Gonchar and a few others A LOT, no one bothered with Neil and he was invisible.
Players should be hitting Karlsson every chance they get, but everyone around the league cross-checks and slashes Subban after the whistle. Which is what we should do to get Karlsson off his game.

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05-06-2013, 11:04 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I don't think a heavyweight is necessary, just need to continue the toughness upgrade. Tinordi filling out will help.

The Gionta/DD combo needs to GTFO though.
I can't stand DD, and for Gionta, I don't hate him but I'd be happy if we traded him.

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05-06-2013, 11:10 AM
  #397
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Last year toronto and montreal had the same type of teams. Fast and able to score goals from our top six. What we both lacked last year was some moxy on the botton six. when the PHA and BOS tough teams played us our stars were bounced around
and we both didnt make the playoffs.

This year toronto for orr,maclaren and fraser on the big team and now they can protect our stars. When we play ottawa do you see Neil trying to run guys?
Do you think we are intimidated by Boston anymore? Those teams may beat us
on the scoreboard but now they have to win with skill not dirty play. Our skill players can play their game without fear of cheapshots.

Look at last nights game for you guys. Your top six was a non factor because they
couldnt play their game for fear of cheapshots, and make no mistake about it Ottawa is one of, if not the most cheapshot team in the league. Neil picks his shots as well as Smith. They are dirty players that need to handl;edthe same way.

Armstrong,white or Moen cannot provide any muscle for you. Prust cant do it all but lord knows he tries. You have a 23 man roster and you only need one legit heavyweight and they only have to be dressed for the games you need them.

Look at the year when the bruins won the cup. Vancouver had a 2-0 lead on them and the third game they put in Thornton and he ran everybody and vancouver had no
answer to him and they subsequently lost. Now I'm not saying thornton won them the cup but when he ran around and gave cheapshots to the twin sisters they
disappeared, and also marchant feels like he's 6 ft 6 playing on that team.

In the offseason you have to get a better botton six with a legit fighter

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05-06-2013, 11:30 AM
  #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Two full threads on this subject.

346 posts on this thread.

And the common denominator was that the Habs do not need tough guys.

"There Is NO FIGHTING In The Playoffs".

The Bruins and the Leafs have the two teams with the most tough guys.

Look at the ****ing box score last night. One pissed off Thornton fight against Fraser at the end of the game. That's it. No more than that. The other fight in their series was Komarov vs Kelly.

Now look at the Sens vs Habs. Because the Habs dont match up in size and toughness against Kassian and Neil, they take advantage of it and beat the **** out of the Habs on the ice.

Wonder why that happened? Because the Sens or any other team can. Nothing more than that. Pound the Habs and you win.

But the tough Leafs and Bruins are not fighting because they have plenty of tough guys.

That point is lost and will probably remain lost for most here.

Enjoy the ass whipping on the ice boys.
How do you explain the fact that we started pretty much all of the fights? If a heavyweight like Kassian can't even deter a "small/soft" team from gooning it up then it's pretty clear they don't act as deterents.

If you really believe all a team has to do is "Pound the Habs and you win" how come the opposing team didn't simply do that during our 29 wins, it's not like we haven't beaten the Sens, Leafs, Bruins this year. How could these teams ever lose a game to us if all they had to do was goon it up to win?

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05-06-2013, 11:39 AM
  #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
Last year toronto and montreal had the same type of teams. Fast and able to score goals from our top six. What we both lacked last year was some moxy on the botton six. when the PHA and BOS tough teams played us our stars were bounced around
and we both didnt make the playoffs.

This year toronto for orr,maclaren and fraser on the big team and now they can protect our stars. When we play ottawa do you see Neil trying to run guys?
Do you think we are intimidated by Boston anymore? Those teams may beat us
on the scoreboard but now they have to win with skill not dirty play. Our skill players can play their game without fear of cheapshots.

Look at last nights game for you guys. Your top six was a non factor because they
couldnt play their game for fear of cheapshots, and make no mistake about it Ottawa is one of, if not the most cheapshot team in the league. Neil picks his shots as well as Smith. They are dirty players that need to handl;edthe same way.

Armstrong,white or Moen cannot provide any muscle for you. Prust cant do it all but lord knows he tries. You have a 23 man roster and you only need one legit heavyweight and they only have to be dressed for the games you need them.

Look at the year when the bruins won the cup. Vancouver had a 2-0 lead on them and the third game they put in Thornton and he ran everybody and vancouver had no
answer to him and they subsequently lost. Now I'm not saying thornton won them the cup but when he ran around and gave cheapshots to the twin sisters they
disappeared, and also marchant feels like he's 6 ft 6 playing on that team.

In the offseason you have to get a better botton six with a legit fighter
This is one Leaf fan who understands playoff hockey.

You need a blend of skill and size to win. Where are those Greenpeace activists among us hiding now?

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05-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
This is one Leaf fan who understands playoff hockey.

You need a blend of skill and size to win. Where are those Greenpeace activists among us hiding now?
They're still defending Gauthier's moves.

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