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Old
05-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #201
KlimasLoveChild
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I'm not too worried about the benching. I didn't think Ruff had a future as oilers coach but if he can help Hall realize he needs to shore up his overall game that's great. I'm sure he'll come back better from this.

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05-06-2013, 11:00 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I'm not too worried about the benching. I didn't think Ruff had a future as oilers coach but if he can help Hall realize he needs to shore up his overall game that's great. I'm sure he'll come back better from this.
Or it will Hurt him in terms of being on Hockey Canada's radar despite likely being a VERY good option.

Ruff needs to pull his head out of his ***. I mean Matt Read shot in the shootout for **** sakes.

Edit: And don't even get me started on plugs like Brodie and Harrison getting a ton more time then Justin Schultz.

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05-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Or it will Hurt him in terms of being on Hockey Canada's radar despite likely being a VERY good option.

Ruff needs to pull his head out of his ***. I mean Matt Read shot in the shootout for **** sakes.

Edit: And don't even get me started on plugs like Brodie and Harrison getting a ton more time then Justin Schultz.
Matt Read is a better choice than Hall in the shootout. In Fact I think Lindy Ruff would be a better choice than Hall in the shootout.

Hall should be getting more ice time though. I'd like to see him wind up behind the net and then go coast to coast with those wheels on the big ice.

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05-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Hall didn't elevate this year? Did you miss the season?
He did, but his defensive work needs a lot of improvement. Tournaments are not always kind to all players. Lots of players who are used to larger roles on their club teams have been in the same position as Hall. I am sure Ruff knows how prolific Hall was this year. Obviously, he sat him because he felt he had better options.

Hall is tremendous, but even he admitted his defensive game needs work. He produces a lot of turn overs. On a team deep in talent, he may find he is not the big gun most nights. To me I look at it as a learning experience for Hall. Team Canada as a junior is one thing and completely another at the pro level. This is him being taught what that difference is. Heck, for all we know he gets a lot more ice time next game.

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05-06-2013, 11:31 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Sorry Mr. Ruff, continue.
Really? You cannot argue with the turnovers Hall had. Dave Tippet is on th bench too. Veteran coaches auditioning for jobs won't play players that make mistakes. They will play Hall if he listens and doesn't keep up with the soft turnovers.

Hall will be fine. He still is learning what a professional Team Canada is all about. It's also early in the tournament. He could very well get more ice time as things progress and he does what the coaches want.

I really do not mind it because Team Canada always asks very good players to be role players and change their game to a different type of play because they have all the best players available. Not every player is going to get the same ice time or treatment they do on their club teams. He will be fine.

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05-06-2013, 11:36 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
He did, but his defensive work needs a lot of improvement. Tournaments are not always kind to all players. Lots of players who are used to larger roles on their club teams have been in the same position as Hall. I am sure Ruff knows how prolific Hall was this year. Obviously, he sat him because he felt he had better options.

Hall is tremendous, but even he admitted his defensive game needs work. He produces a lot of turn overs. On a team deep in talent, he may find he is not the big gun most nights. To me I look at it as a learning experience for Hall. Team Canada as a junior is one thing and completely another at the pro level. This is him being taught what that difference is. Heck, for all we know he gets a lot more ice time next game.
If Hall turns over the puck the tendency is for him to do it in the offensive zone. 150 feet from his own net. Its part of the risk/reward in a player like him that can single handedly rush the puck and create a scoring chance out of nothing that results in hits and misses. By the nature of the attacking game he plays theres going to be some turnovers. Theres going to be some goals scored by him as well. But not from sitting on the bench.

Looks like this Team Canada could use some goals.

As far as your comment on Eberle being sounder defensively I can't agree. Eberle is one of the more suspect defensive players on the Oilers.

The preference isn't about defensive acumen. Its that Ruff wants more shots. Something Eberle is more prone to do.

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05-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
He did, but his defensive work needs a lot of improvement. Tournaments are not always kind to all players. Lots of players who are used to larger roles on their club teams have been in the same position as Hall. I am sure Ruff knows how prolific Hall was this year. Obviously, he sat him because he felt he had better options.
Hall is tremendous, but even he admitted his defensive game needs work. He produces a lot of turn overs. On a team deep in talent, he may find he is not the big gun most nights. To me I look at it as a learning experience for Hall. Team Canada as a junior is one thing and completely another at the pro level. This is him being taught what that difference is. Heck, for all we know he gets a lot more ice time next game.
That might have some relevance if Canada actually won the game. However, a group of players that just about any line could be a number 1 line in the NHL should beat a group of nobodies.
It's Ruff's job to win the game and they're not going to win by giving (or not giving) one of their more dynamic players, and lines, enough ice time to make a difference. No PP time for Hall, Duchesne and Eberle as a line and Schultz, one of their only offensive forwards to actually have a chance to score, is simply poor management of your assets.

Hall made a couple of giveaways sure (I counted 3) but most of the others did as well..Giroux's led to a goal. When you're down a goal you don't sit one of the player's that has a good chance to get you one.

Anyone that has watched the NHL for the last 2 years could do a better lineup...

Read and Simmonds should be on the 3-4 lines, not Hall, Duchesne and Eberle...

Lines should be:

Giroux - E Staal - Stamkos
Hall - Duchesne - Eberle
Simmonds - O'Reilly - Ladd
Skinner - J Staal - Read

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05-06-2013, 11:49 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
That might have some relevance if Canada actually won the game. However, a group of players that just about any line could be a number 1 line in the NHL should beat a group of nobodies.
It's Ruff's job to win the game and they're not going to win by giving (or not giving) one of their more dynamic players, and lines, enough ice time to make a difference. No PP time for Hall, Duchesne and Eberle as a line and Schultz, one of their only offensive forwards to actually have a chance to score, is simply poor management of your assets.

Hall made a couple of giveaways sure (I counted 3) but most of the others did as well..Giroux's led to a goal. When you're down a goal you don't sit one of the player's that has a good chance to get you one.

Anyone that has watched the NHL for the last 2 years could do a better lineup...

Read and Simmonds should be on the 3-4 lines, not Hall, Duchesne and Eberle...

Lines should be:

Giroux - E Staal - Stamkos
Hall - Duchesne - Eberle
Simmonds - O'Reilly - Ladd
Skinner - J Staal - Read
My take is still the same. Coaches always have their favorites in a tournament. Hall just isn't one of them. Sure he can score and likely could have helped that way. My position is that the coaches are more comfortable with other guys in a one goal game. Also, the Swiss always seem to give us fits. Perhaps we should blame Kreuger for this.

Edit: all of those lines are capable of being first lines in the NHL. If a coach sees something from a couple of lines that he thinks will give them a better chance to win, he will shorten the bench. Hall drew the short stick.

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05-06-2013, 11:50 AM
  #209
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As much as I like Hall it's magnificently refreshing to see him held accountable when he screws up. Unlike on these forums when he is already being stuck on the Horcoff shelf of unaccountability. (Not by himself, he actually cares but from the coaches and the fan base.)

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05-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
As much as I like Hall it's magnificently refreshing to see him held accountable when he screws up. Unlike on these forums when he is already being stuck on the Horcoff shelf of unaccountability. (Not by himself, he actually cares but from the coaches and the fan base.)
this is what I think is happening as well. It will benefit him in his development.

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05-06-2013, 11:57 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
My take is still the same. Coaches always have their favorites in a tournament. Hall just isn't one of them. Sure he can score and likely could have helped that way. My position is that the coaches are more comfortable with other guys in a one goal game. Also, the Swiss always seem to give us fits. Perhaps we should blame Kreuger for this.

Edit: all of those lines are capable of being first lines in the NHL. If a coach sees something from a couple of lines that he thinks will give them a better chance to win, he will shorten the bench. Hall drew the short stick.
The point missing in this is that Ruff selected the wrong players, shortened the bench, and hurt the teams winning chances against a vastly inferior club and LOST the game.

We're not talking about sound responsible coaching leading to a win here. We're talking about a cluster**** loss.

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05-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #212
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by Okanagan Oil View Post
Matt Read is a better choice than Hall in the shootout. In Fact I think Lindy Ruff would be a better choice than Hall in the shootout.

Hall should be getting more ice time though. I'd like to see him wind up behind the net and then go coast to coast with those wheels on the big ice.
One would think that Eric Staal or Justin Schultz would likely be choices then Matt Read.

Yeah, point Completely missed.

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05-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #213
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Hall is a scratch

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not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
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05-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #214
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I think Hall's lack of pp time is a little disturbing, considering how good is PP stats are...

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05-06-2013, 01:08 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Hall is a scratch
Maybe he can come home and get a start on summer train, good god

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05-06-2013, 01:27 PM
  #216
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The Swiss just beat Czech Republic...

SWE - SUI: 2-3
SUI - CAN: 3-2
SUI - CZE: 5-2

Unless they ******* up completely they've just secured the no 1 spot in our group.

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05-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Capital J View Post
Hall was giving up some juicy turnovers in the first period to be fair.
So did Giroux...

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05-06-2013, 01:38 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
He did, but his defensive work needs a lot of improvement. Tournaments are not always kind to all players. Lots of players who are used to larger roles on their club teams have been in the same position as Hall. I am sure Ruff knows how prolific Hall was this year. Obviously, he sat him because he felt he had better options.

Hall is tremendous, but even he admitted his defensive game needs work. He produces a lot of turn overs. On a team deep in talent, he may find he is not the big gun most nights. To me I look at it as a learning experience for Hall. Team Canada as a junior is one thing and completely another at the pro level. This is him being taught what that difference is. Heck, for all we know he gets a lot more ice time next game.
Ya, knew him so well that he'd split him from Ebs and Schultz on the PP.

It's another case of coach not doing their homework. Perhaps that's why Ruff and the Sabres fell apart-Ruff took too much for granted from his line up. I reckon Ruff + Oilers = Quinn + Oilers.

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05-06-2013, 01:40 PM
  #219
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weren't people clamoring to have ruff or tippett coach the oilers?

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05-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Where are all the Ruff supporters right now? 8 minutes a game for Taylor Hall, Mike Brown minutes... what a joke.
To be fair, I'm not reading a lot of posts describing Hall's play at the WHC.

comments that Ruff is "bad coach" because he's limiting Hall's minutes need to be backed up by an explanation.

Is Hall playing poorly?

Are there options that are playing better than Hall right now?

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05-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #221
Seedling
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The point missing in this is that Ruff selected the wrong players, shortened the bench, and hurt the teams winning chances against a vastly inferior club and LOST the game.

We're not talking about sound responsible coaching leading to a win here. We're talking about a cluster**** loss.
Maybe. Hall being scratched today won't go over well.

I am not saying Ruff is a genius. I am fine with a coach putting out guys that he thinks will win a game and sending a message to a rookie. We all won't agree with it either way, hence a debate forum.

Maybe there is more to this than we know. Maybe there is an undisclosed injury that made Hall a scratch today. Maybe it is a message.

I think if we are all being honest, it would not have hurt Hall to watch a game or two from above here in Edmonton the last few years. Seguin experienced this and he is doing fine. Hall is the kind of guy that will get mad and use it as motivation.

I agree it would be great to see him playing and learning that way. Tippett and Ruff see something they want fixed in a short tourney that does not always afford the luxury of development, even with a great talent like Hall.

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05-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #222
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To be fair, I'm not reading a lot of posts describing Hall's play at the WHC.

comments that Ruff is "bad coach" because he's limiting Hall's minutes need to be backed up by an explanation.

Is Hall playing poorly?

Are there options that are playing better than Hall right now?
Apparently the coaching staff think do.

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05-06-2013, 01:54 PM
  #223
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This is a short tournament and the coaching staff have a lot of great options besides the Oilers trio in defensive and offensive situations. I'm not happy about hearing Hall is being scratched but I'll take a wait and see attitude here. If Canada wins or ends up in the final, scratching Hall for a group game will likely be a non-factor.

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05-06-2013, 02:00 PM
  #224
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Is he really scratched? They don't play till tomorrow is this confirmed?

If it is true then Lindy Ruff is a clown show. Kevin Lowe needs to put on those cup rings and go ring Lindys bell.

Last time Hall got benched he came back with a first period hat trick the next game.

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05-06-2013, 03:50 PM
  #225
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Don't we want a coach that won't put Taylor Hall out on the ice just because he's Taylor Hall? Accountability needs to be a team wide concept for the Oilers team to go anywhere. Given Hall's season and effort this year, it seems damn near impossible he deserves a benching, but it's a different situation. New coach, new team, limitted time together as a team. Ruff might not know what he has in Hall, but he has the right to make calls on a player's ice time base on what he see game to game, limitted as it may be.

This is one of the ways coaches mitigate deficiencies out of players. Stupid penalty? Benched. Too many giveaways? Benched. Effort in question? Benched.

I don't see a major problem here. Hall is the type of player who wants so badly to be THE player on the ice, he'll do whatever it takes to learn from his mistakes. And we'll see a more complete game from him as time goes on as a result of these lessons.

Wouldn't have scratched him for tomorrow because Hall is fantastic at redemption games. That's the only thing I'd put on Ruff at this moment.

All a moot point anyways since Krueger obviously gets another kick at the can given MacT's defense of the coaching.

And I'd rather see Hall get MVP at Sochi next year. Barring injury, he will have the type of season that'll earn him a spot on that team, I have no doubt.

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