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2013 D-Core Overhaul

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Old
05-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #76
StormCast
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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
Stormy, I edited that while you were multi quoting lol
I saw that and had to quickly delete it. You're too fast.

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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
Could we afford, if we amnesty Ruutu?

Joni-Edler
Staal-Faulk
Gleason-Murphy
MAB
That's be a big improvement but I don't think you can do it without moving Pitkanen. That's a lot of new salary. You can then move Gleason to the middle pair and re-insert Harrison in the 3rd pair.

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05-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #77
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That would come trading our 5 to Vanc for Edler and their 1, and next years #1 and pieces to NYR for MStaal.

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05-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #78
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I'd do it too. Edler would look great next to Faulk.

Problem is his cap number is $5 million through 2019.

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05-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Hey everyone,

Sorry to interrupt the Marc Staal talk. I'm sure he'll be a Cane very soon (that'll be a wonderful story when it happens too).

Some of us on the Canuck board were discussing a rebuild/retool, and figured that Carolina might be a good trading partner. You need defensemen, we need young forward talent. What say you to an Edler + our 1st round pick (20 something) for your 5th overall pick? Is this something you could see the Canes being interested in?
That would make JR think long and hard.

For me, our biggest need after defense is production from cheap contracts and ELC's. Outside of Tlusty and Faulk for 1 more year, we have no one. Outside (IMO, and this is sickeningly optimistic), only Bellemore, Murphy, Levi, Biega, Dalpe, Boychuk and Rask have that potential currently in the minors, with everyone but Bellemore a few years away, and with Dalpe and Boychuk working their hardest to prove me wrong.

So trading the guaranteed* production for 3 cheap years for however many years of Edler (who has no hope of outperforming his contract) fixes our d, but hampers our already ridiculously thin depth.

But I (and probably JR) would think long and hard over it.

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05-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #80
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Well if we amnesty Ruutu you basically cover Edler through 2016

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05-06-2013, 12:31 PM
  #81
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Awesome! Thanks for the insight guys, much appreciated. Hopefully JR and MG get to talking as I really think a trade like this could help both our teams. We are very deal with LH defensemen but badly need a top offensive prospect that the 5th pick would give us, and you could really use a defenseman like Edler. He is inconsistent, but when paired with a defensively responsible right side defenseman Edler would likely look a lot better than he has in these playoffs.

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05-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Awesome! Thanks for the insight guys, much appreciated. Hopefully JR and MG get to talking as I really think a trade like this could help both our teams. We are very deal with LH defensemen but badly need a top offensive prospect that the 5th pick would give us, and you could really use a defenseman like Edler. He is inconsistent, but when paired with a defensively responsible right side defenseman Edler would likely look a lot better than he has in these playoffs.
In all fairness though JR would have to add to that package to make it acceptable to Vancouver.

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05-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #83
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In all fairness though JR would have to add to that package to make it acceptable to Vancouver.
Add in McBain maybe? Some Vancouver friends I have said they'd like a younger RHD puck mover.

If we trade with Vancouver, wonder if we could get Hansen coming back? He can score and has grit. He's cheaper than LaRose to.

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05-06-2013, 01:26 PM
  #84
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IMO this team isnt in position to deal a prospect under financial control to acquire a $$ dman. Salary would have to be cleared.....and a Ruutu amnesty buyout is a non starter for me as he offers this team something it needs regardless of whether he is overpaid or not. For me, the only move for this team, because JR has locked in all the expensive deals long term....is to simply spend to the cap. Throwing Ruutu or Pitts or Gleason isnt really doing anything other than rearranging deck chairs. Ward Skinner Staal Staal and Semin will be making 35 million by themselves the year after next and none of them play defenseman. JR has built the roster to spend to the cap. Offloading a 4 million dollar player doesnt make a substantial difference unless you unload all three and respend that 14 million with three different guys. Long story short....the low dollar high quality pick is worth more to us than adding another 5 million dollar guy unless you have already worked out dealing middle slary player for a close to equal player for less money... which will take more assets.

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05-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #85
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With your theory Faulking. We won't be making any moves. That is not an option so I'm discounting your theory. I also think Ruutu is in big danger of amnesty no matter what he brings. But he might be safe with his late play.

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05-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #86
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Skinner for Elder?

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05-06-2013, 01:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
With your theory Faulking. We won't be making any moves. That is not an option so I'm discounting your theory. I also think Ruutu is in big danger of amnesty no matter what he brings. But he might be safe with his late play.
Ruutu is going to undergo another hip surgery, right? Can they buy out Ruutu while injured?

I think an amnesty buyout of Ruutu is possible after 2014, but I doubt it happens this year.

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05-06-2013, 03:27 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
IMO this team isnt in position to deal a prospect under financial control to acquire a $$ dman. Salary would have to be cleared.....and a Ruutu amnesty buyout is a non starter for me as he offers this team something it needs regardless of whether he is overpaid or not. For me, the only move for this team, because JR has locked in all the expensive deals long term....is to simply spend to the cap. Throwing Ruutu or Pitts or Gleason isnt really doing anything other than rearranging deck chairs. Ward Skinner Staal Staal and Semin will be making 35 million by themselves the year after next and none of them play defenseman. JR has built the roster to spend to the cap. Offloading a 4 million dollar player doesnt make a substantial difference unless you unload all three and respend that 14 million with three different guys. Long story short....the low dollar high quality pick is worth more to us than adding another 5 million dollar guy unless you have already worked out dealing middle slary player for a close to equal player for less money... which will take more assets.
Agreed 100%

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05-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
With your theory Faulking. We won't be making any moves. That is not an option so I'm discounting your theory. I also think Ruutu is in big danger of amnesty no matter what he brings. But he might be safe with his late play.
I would rather trade Ruutu for Edler, the salaries basically even out, then find a younger/cheaper PF type to replace him (Clowe/Clarkson in FA for instance.) We can't afford not to have Ruutu or somebody like him, and we can't afford not to have an ELC in the top 9 forwards. Otherwise it's the same situation as last year, except a little bit worse. I like Pat Dwyer but if I have to see him on the second line again next year I might lose my mind.

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05-06-2013, 04:26 PM
  #90
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I can almost guarentee that Clarkson and Clowe will not only not be cheaper than Ruutu, but that neither will outproduce Ruutu significantly next year.

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05-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #91
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Chip tweeted this during JRs season ending presser a few days ago:

@ice_chip
Was told Canes will not have an amnesty buyout.

So unless Ruutu is traded during the offseason (which is unlikely as he's going to undergo the surgery) he'll be back here for next season.

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05-06-2013, 06:32 PM
  #92
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The one thing that would provide some leeway is that if Pitkanen can't start the season you get cap relief for his replacement, so theoretically we could sign another $4.5 million dollar player.

The smart thing to do though would be to sign a cheaper player in addition to a bigger FA signing under the existing cap, then figure out some other way to get to the cap at the trade deadline.

I keep going back to Scuderi because he fits a need and would be relatively inexpensive. The lesser player could be somebody like, Doug Murray.

Faulk-Gleason
Scuderi-McBain
Harrison-Murray
Bergeron (or Murphy)

Not so great until Joni comes back, but when he does it looks much better, and you flip McBain in a trade to clear the cap (the difference between McBain and Murray would only be something like 500K).

Faulk-Gleason
Scuderi-Pitkanen
Harrison-Murray
Bergeron (or Murphy)

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05-06-2013, 07:00 PM
  #93
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Faulk-Gleason
Scuderi-Pitkanen
Harrison-Murray
Bergeron (or Murphy)
That's actually pretty solid.

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05-06-2013, 07:10 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
But in the end, weren't the Pens fans right? I mean for basically 48 games of Jordan Staal, they got a 1st (#8 pick), a former 1st and good young roster player (Sutter) and a good prospect (Dumoulin). That's a pretty good return for a guy who they were going to lose at the end of this season.
Yes, but understand: having all the Staals now is a foregone conclusion because Jordan is here. Jordan could just as easily have gone to NYC to play with Marc. Now that's resolved, and Marc has one choice, and once choice only, for the family reunion.

Not sure I agreed with the Jordan trade, but I understood why the timing made sense. Now that we have a critical mass of Staals, we must wait for Marc -- and I believe we will.

--hank

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05-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #95
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M staal activated from ir... Lets see if he's the same

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05-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #96
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Has Marc ever even said he wants to play with his brothers? We've always assumed so but I've never heard anything from him.

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05-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #97
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Has Marc ever even said he wants to play with his brothers? We've always assumed so but I've never heard anything from him.
Nope. But that does not stop most from just assuming so. For all we know he likes playing *against* his brothers. Maybe he likes NYC better than Raleigh. Maybe he really likes Torts, OK j/k. The point remains none of us knows what Marc Staal really wants to do. And that's the way it should be. If he came out and said it publicly he would hurt his negotiating position.

BTW, Marc on the ice for warm ups. Looks like he's playing. Edit: he is in.


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05-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #98
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McKenzie said something earlier today that Marc has been working on adapting to the limited vision he now has in that eye. How bad was the damage? NO wonder the brothers put on shields. That's nearly a career ender. Ask Paul Maurice.

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05-06-2013, 09:53 PM
  #99
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Why go through all this complication with buyouts and worrying about the salary cap when all we have to do is trade Skinner for Jake Gardiner? Problem solved.

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05-06-2013, 10:00 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
McKenzie said something earlier today that Marc has been working on adapting to the limited vision he now has in that eye. How bad was the damage? NO wonder the brothers put on shields. That's nearly a career ender. Ask Paul Maurice.
Better yet, compare it to the injury that put Bryan Berard on the path. He was an elite NHL prospect and was starting to come into his own and then Hossa clips him and it changes everything. He was never a Top 4 guy after that happened.

I was chastised for calling Marc Staal "one eyed" on the trade thread about him and was reminded about his concussion suffered that really shook his world up. You just can't trade the farm, the sod farm we'll say, for a player like that with those injuries.

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